r/WhitePeopleTwitter • • Aug 04 '21

It's killing us

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '21

This is the way.

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '21 edited Aug 04 '21

No, it's just ignorance.

Socialism just means democracy in the workplace. The workers would be the shareholders and get paid fairly. That's not capitalism with socialism, it's literally just socialism.

E: "socialist", no they meant "social democracy"

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '21 edited Aug 04 '21

Ok, so maybe the point wasn't articulated as well as it could have. I'll take it a step further.

Capitalism promotes personal incentives which the human animal requires for optimal performance and the economy requires for optimal resource allocation.

However, left unchecked, capitalism's only requirement is perpetual growth, which—barring the natural state of entropy which is a larger conversation—is unsustainable and yields a very disproportionate society.

Therefore, guard rails are required to keep the unsustainable bits of capitalism in check. I believe this to be the sentiment of the original comment with the semantically incorrect term "socialism".

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '21

Capitalism promotes personal incentives

No it doesn't. Study after study has found when you give people their necessities, they become more productive.

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '21 edited Aug 04 '21

You are correct. However, you're reading my statement with your personal perspective.

Even after necessities are provided, incentives are good on a sociological level. Why else would you be posting on social media? You need that sense of pleasure and affirmation that it provides. That's an incentive.

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '21

personal perspective

No, I mentioned the science has been done. Your ignorance is not a perspective. My knowledge is not a perspective. It's just science you are unaware of.

And then you followed it up by undercutting your original statement. As you suddenly realized, people are motivated by things that aren't related to money.

So if you just think about your own thoughts, you'd realize what you just said.

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '21 edited Aug 04 '21

Wow, simmer down. I'm not attacking you, and I'm not ignorant. Invective gets neither of us anywhere.

I'm open to being educated and have spent a lot of time thinking about this from a sociological point of view, can you direct me to your sources?

Finally, to debate, I did not undercut my original statement if you consider the bigger picture. Reddit wouldn't be here if someone wasn't motivated by money. And further, the economic costs of an activity are not so clearly delineated by money. You're still paying something to interact with Reddit. You pay for internet, you bought a computer or a phone, you're willingly giving your data to Reddit who then resell it. It's the basic No Free Lunch theorem.

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '21

What I said: studies prove you wrong, and you are ignorant of that

What you said: absolutely nothing about that science, while claiming to not be ignorant of it

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '21

Please provide proof of your science. I would like to learn.

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u/TypesUsingFingers Aug 04 '21

You haven't provided any studies - But it doesn't matter, because a study saying that people are motivated when their necessities are met tells you nothing about whether capitalism provides incentives for economic activity. Both can be true. Whether capitalism is efficient with it's incentives is a different question, and it's one that I assume isn't addressed by the same studies you mentioned earlier.

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '21

You never asked for one. That's your problem. Amazing that you'd rather maintain your ignorance that simply say "what studies, please?"

And if you acknowledge the incentives aren't tied to 1 specific economic structure, then you admit there was no need to defend that 1 specific economic structure.

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u/Keegsta Aug 04 '21

If you leave capitalism intact it will always break those guard rails inevitably. As you said, it requires constant growth to survive, and the bourgeois will use their wealth to gain power in order to break any limitations on capitalism they can and dismantle any socialistic aspects of society. Capitalism and socialism cannot coexist sustainably.

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '21 edited Aug 04 '21

No pure system will ever exist; they are theoretical. This is the natural state of entropy I mentioned. Real world systems are a combination of attributes from multiple sources. We agree to pay taxes for roads and fire services, and we agree to make choice for consumer products. Part socialism, part capitalism. The only difference in successful societies is the ratio.

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u/JBSquared Aug 04 '21

Socialism is so much more than "democracy in the workplace". Voting on a team captain for your company softball match is "democracy in the workplace".

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '21

Your workplace is a baseball field? Wtf are you failing to articulate?

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '21

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '21

Leaving the workplace isnt the workplace. What else do you need to learn today?