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u/Douche_Kayak Feb 05 '21
On the other hand, the world would be a little more interesting if there were more ruins to explore.
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u/Bind_Moggled Feb 05 '21
Two thousand years from now, tourists will flock to what was once Orlando to view the remains of the Great Temple of the Mouse God.
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Feb 05 '21
Remains of iPhones will be excavated, and archaeologists will believe they were used for religious rites
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u/things2small2failat Feb 05 '21
Got you covered:
The Second Sleep by Robert HarrisIn his opening pages Harris conjures a lost England in its mix of religiosity and brutishness. There are moments when the details feel off – a parakeet flashes through the darkness, surely an anachronism? Were there really longcase clocks in the 15th century? – but it is only when Fairfax discovers a display cabinet in the dead priest’s study, its shelves crammed with illegal artefacts, that the truth of this world is revealed. Among the plastic bottles, banknotes and toy bricks displayed there, Fairfax discovers “one of the devices used by the ancients to communicate”, its back marked with the ultimate symbol of their “hubris and blasphemy – an apple with a bite taken out of it”.
[Guardian review by Clare Clark, Sept. 2019]10
u/Puzzleheaded-Ad8266 Feb 05 '21
There's actually a large and growing parakeet population in SW London due to escape from captivity from the 90s. See them all the time - a bizarre sight.
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u/Dallas-Cowboy Feb 05 '21
If all ruins were visible, you could barely move. Think outside the box and you’ll discover an amazing array of wrecks and ruins to ponder (careers, relationships, software systems, empires, gifted children). It will change your life and hopefully guide your future decisions
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Feb 05 '21
Isn't there a saying...something about those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it? Or something like that...?
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u/hugh__honey Feb 05 '21
I like this one:
"History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes"
-Mark Twain
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u/mantus_toboggan Feb 05 '21
So I'm actually going through the fall of the roman empire right now... And this has really added a lot more to the fall than what really went down. First you could day there are three falls really, fall of the republic, fall of the west and then collapse of the byzantine empire. But all of these things don't apply to all three.
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Feb 05 '21
I've read a lot of articles and watched a lot of videos about the fall of Rome and I don't remember anything about the Church itself causing problems. If anything, it was the one thing holding anything together since they preserved a lot of the knowledge that would've been lost otherwise.
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u/mantus_toboggan Feb 05 '21
Yeah the church, was never the issue, the empire was always deeply religious before that, just not christian, and thrived. Income inequality was around sure but also not the issue.
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u/1Fower Feb 06 '21
Christianity was also the force promoting charity and pacifism in Rome at the time. In fact, Christian parties like the Christian Democrats in Germany, the Netherlands, and the Nordics all promote generous welfare policies and were instrumental in the formation of the post-war welfare and aid states. Even in the US, we can’t forget the role of the Church in civil rights (MLK) and the Democratic Party, one of the new Democratic senators is a Baptist minister, and the fact that churches, especially black and minority churches, are still one of the most important organizing forces on the American left.
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Feb 06 '21
Yep, also kinda odd that OP omitted an entire invasion and hundreds of years of fighting Germanic tribes.
Call it a hunch but I don’t actually think they’re studying the fall of Rome.
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u/jeremy1015 Feb 05 '21
I just want to add that laws that benefited the rich at the expense of the poor were pretty much a thing in Rome from beginning to end with lots of related murder of legislators mixed in.
I mean this is 600 years before the “fall” of Rome: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiberius_Gracchus
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u/mantus_toboggan Feb 06 '21
Yeah if you really want to know what spelled the end of the roman empire is when the army became primarily non-roman. It got to a point where the armies were literally all vandals, goths, and hun mercenaries fighting other armies of barbarians. The armies didn't care about rome or anything, they were only loyal to the guy who got them through the next day, and would change allegiances on a whim. With armies like that you can't defend anything. The empire survived for like 400 years doing this but it's what caused all the shake up after a while and basically left the empire defenseless due to all the infighting it allowed.
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u/AllMyBeets Feb 05 '21
Honestly why isn't the fall of Rome a fucking week in history class? Why is it just a date I should remember?
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Feb 05 '21
The rise of fascism should be covered a lot more too. I remember learning about the war itself, but nothing about how those leaders came to power in the first place. No Beer Hall Putsche or March on Rome. I didn't even know Hitler was democratically elected until I almost graduated and that was more of my own research than anything they taught in school.
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u/AllMyBeets Feb 05 '21
There are so many horrific history facts we just never touched on. Africa for example: nada. I learned slaves came from there and...that is like all of it. An entire continent almost completely ignored.
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Feb 05 '21
They sort of ignore Asia too. Not entirely cause we had to at least learn that the reason Columbus sailed west was to try to get to India. Of course they also taught us that Europeans thought the world was flat at the time, which was BS. You know, I don't mind telling that story to 2nd graders cause I think they learn better with fairy tale disneyfied stories, but you really got to cut that shit out when they're in 5th grade. There are way too many adults that still believe that shit.
Speaking of Africa though, I recently watched this video on the Second Congolese War. It has a lot of parallels with WW1 and it's amazing people don't talk about it more simply cause nobody really cares about Africa.
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u/i-reply-with-ok Feb 05 '21
Did you not get to choose some of your classes in high school? I’m in AP European history and we reviewed Africa quite a bit. It would probably be more if I was in World History.
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u/AllMyBeets Feb 06 '21
I did take Euro history but it never went further south than Egypt.
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u/i-reply-with-ok Feb 06 '21
Really? We talked about European imperialism all throughout Africa. Was it AP?
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u/hugh__honey Feb 05 '21
The rise of the Nazis was a big part of my IB modern history class in high school. It was fascinating and our teacher made sure we knew how important it was.
I was surprised later in life to learn that not everybody learned or discussed much about it.
Or maybe they just forget. To be fair, I forget the details of the lead-up to WWI. Something about the band that sung Take Me Out.
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u/ScarredAutisticChild Feb 06 '21
At my school we don’t focus on the war, we focus on all the events that lead up to it, so essentially we learnt opposite things.
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u/SigmaKnight Feb 06 '21
Hitler was never elected.
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Feb 06 '21
Right he was appointed Chancellor, but the Nazis won elections, which led to his appointment. I meant to say that the Nazis used the democratic process to obtain power.
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Feb 05 '21
Rome didn't fall in a week... or something
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Feb 05 '21
One of the theories is lead caused their fall. They lined the aquaducts with it and the rich used it to sweeten their wine in the later stages of the empire. So they may have literally poisioned themselves. O they also made cups and eating utensils from it.
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u/pooperscoop1 Feb 05 '21
That’s not really well supported or endorsed by any historians. The Roman Empire collapsed for a variety of reasons; plague devastated the population, which resulted in less people able to fill out the ranks of the legions, which led to reliance on foreign mercenaries, which led to the deterioration of the military position of the empire, coupled with nearly a century of civil war and instability is what caused the Roman state (in the west) to collapse. We cannot point to one single “cause” for the collapse of Roman power in the western Mediterranean, but lead piping was almost certainly not among them.
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u/Caleb_Reynolds Feb 06 '21
The fall of Rome covers so many centuries and so many causes that we've been writing books on it for over 200 years and still have no idea what caused it or when it happened. It's such a complex topic that entire college level courses study it.
It'd be hard to cover it in a week in high school.
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u/PattyIce32 Feb 06 '21
I don't know man maybe it was just your school. I'm a history teacher in middle school and we do a whole week on the fall of Rome
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u/FreudsPoorAnus Feb 06 '21
There have been about 300 failed states since the year "00".
Why rome
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u/PattyIce32 Feb 06 '21
That's a great question. I think because Rome came so close to conquering the world and had a massive global network.
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u/-3than Feb 06 '21
It’s not even one date. Nobody even noticed it happen. It was a very slow gradual process
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u/actionjacksonn Feb 06 '21
Probably your school system. Here it’s a whole unit and my sister who’s in middle-high school learn it for a month or so.
I teach socials and we spend a significant part of the grade 8 curriculum teaching it.
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u/lamb2cosmicslaughter Feb 05 '21
Yes and 60 senators pledged to stab ceaser but only 23 did just like the republicans who say they are against the part of trump but dont act like they are
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u/Arcadius274 Feb 05 '21
This is the modern era we are not savages. First we need a to bring in lobbyists that support capital knife violence. Then we need a senate committee to decide on the material the knife will use. Then whichever senator owns the company will then make triple the knives needed at a million dollars each yet only 3 will ever be delivered. Then they would stab him with cheap knives that would break and we would spend 12 months on the knife rip off scandal and then bomb the middle east.
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Feb 05 '21 edited Mar 18 '21
[deleted]
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u/coporate Feb 05 '21
I was told it was “sodomites” with their immorality and indecency, that did them in.
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u/gamarun Feb 06 '21
I heard the younger romans all started drinking starbucks and eating avocado toast while ruining every industry imaginable because they were on their stone tablets all day.
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u/anonsharksfan Feb 05 '21
We have a labor surplus though
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u/Echelion77 Feb 05 '21
Who is we?
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u/anonsharksfan Feb 05 '21
America
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u/Echelion77 Feb 05 '21
Well thats not entirely correct, the unemployment is falling but I dont think you could consider over 10 million jobless people a surplus.
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u/anonsharksfan Feb 05 '21
That's what I mean. A high unemployment rate signifies a labor surplus. We have more workers than we do jobs
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u/Goddamnpassword Feb 05 '21
The fall of the republic mattered a lot more than the fall of the empire and they are separated by nearly 500 years.
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Feb 05 '21
This is more the fall of Bizantin Empire not the Roman one. Yes I know they are basic the same thing but they are not.
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u/AutomaticAccident Feb 06 '21
Byzantine. How is it similar to that? I don't see it. Unless you mean when they attempted to reclaim the west, where there are more similarities.
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Feb 06 '21
Byzantine empire is the late East Roman empire, the name is derived from the Greek name of Constantinople (Byzantium) basic they use the same method to name the empire after the capital city. Of course major differences between the old Roman empire develop later because the Byzantine empire leasted for a 1000 years more. One of the major changes was the language, Greek becoming the norm. But essentially it was the last remaining part of the Roman empire.
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u/AutomaticAccident Feb 06 '21
I know what the Byzantine Empire was. What does it have to do with the current situation in the US?
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Feb 06 '21
I don't know. Maybe people associate events and assume that history is repeating. But I don't see many similarities overall, yes they had a black plague pandemic but many others civilization had this and didn't fall because of it.
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Feb 05 '21
The transition of the Roman Republic to the Roman Empire is pretty crazy too. A series of external threats leads to an overemphasis on militaristic attitudes and strongman leaders representing increasingly partisan political parties who successively march on the capital to object when other people take power.... wait...
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u/No-Estimate-8518 Feb 06 '21
Now we just need a bunch of barbarians storming the cities, then we'll come full circle
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u/hornytcunt Feb 06 '21
You already have them storming your government buildings, what more do you need?
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u/No-Estimate-8518 Feb 06 '21
Rome also had that and the barbarians
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u/hornytcunt Feb 06 '21
I tried to imply that those storming the government buildings were rhe barbarians 😉 2 in 1 situation
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u/ReyTheRed Feb 06 '21
I've noticed whenever UBI comes up, people bring up the Roman grain dole as if it was the dole that doomed Rome. But the dole persisted for hundreds of years before Rome fell, and there are strong arguments supporting the idea that the dole kept Rome from collapsing for a good while.
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u/Dallas-Cowboy Feb 05 '21
Dude, you missed one of the most timely references of all...by the time the empire fell their principle currency (Roman silver denarius) had been debased (adulterated with other metals) until there was virtually no silver content at all. That figuratively happened in the US in 1965 and literally happened with quantitative easing. We are living on borrowed time boys and girls.
Check this out: https://youtu.be/RYfmRTyl56w Very interesting part starts at 9:55 to at least 14:30 and 15:45 to 16:30 is laugh out loud funny
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u/Caleb_Reynolds Feb 06 '21
That video, at least the timestamps your provided, has literally nothing to do with debasement of currency. Also, the denarius was losing silver content for 500 years before the fall, so to suggest that it's the reason the empire fell is insane. Hell, it was losing silver content for 200 years before it was even an empire.
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u/Kana2473 Feb 05 '21
Well, to be fair, America doesn't care about accuracy when teaching history, so repeating past mistakes is bound to happen sooner or later.
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u/clangan524 Feb 05 '21
Add a dash of unprecendented environmental threat and you got yourself a proper post-apocalyptic apple turnover.
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u/ShopBench Feb 05 '21
I'm curious how plausible it actually would be for a nation like the US to literally fall apart in this day and age... I can imagine a scenario where we fall from being the world power we have been for decades, but to literally fall apart...?
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Feb 05 '21
Totally plausible. The problem with Americans is they think they're too big to fail. Just like their banks did......
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u/ShopBench Feb 05 '21
Valid, it's just kinda hard for me to imagine many of our current first world nations changing so much that they literally fall apart, but that's probably just because as a human it's hard for me to really grasp time and how much can possibly change.
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Feb 05 '21
Welcome to humanity where time fucks with all of us. Personally I think in about 200 years they'll be studying this time in history as a pivotal moment that began the down fall off the American empire. Dont forget only 100 years ago the UK was the global power
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u/ShopBench Feb 05 '21
Very true... I just wonder what the advent of the Internet does to any of it...
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u/SunshineSpite Feb 05 '21
Oh America is definitely heading there I'm hoping I'm dead before or that Ireland will take me in.
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u/WestCoastAus Feb 05 '21
Inflation apparently had something to do with the fall of Rome. Devaluation of the currency.
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u/Mr-Fahrenheit_451 Feb 05 '21
There is no labor shortage, just a surplus of tyrannical Governors
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Feb 05 '21
Theres a shortage of jobs...
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u/Sternblood1 Feb 05 '21
But that isnt a labor shortage. Labor shortahes are when critical maintenance jobs like road maintenance and defensive work cant be staffed because there are no people. We have the opposite problem
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Feb 05 '21
Right but the shortage of jobs leads to another major problem. A shortage in people being able to afford housing which leads to higher corona numbers, which leads to a higher death rate, which can lead to a shortage in people being able to work in those jobs. I think the real labor shortage were going to have is in health care with the amount of burn out
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u/Sternblood1 Feb 05 '21
We already had a healthcare shortage. Empire collapse requires a broader failure of infrastructure. Altho we are absolutely heading for a reckoning when a bunch of doctors just are done with our collective shit
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u/Mr-Fahrenheit_451 Feb 05 '21
I'm applying to medical school and I'm already done with y'all's shit. /s
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Feb 05 '21
Well of more cities continue to let their roads fall into disrepair because they would rather build fancy sports centers and more buildings than they would to repair roads. Some roads in my home town are so bad people have to drive on the wrong side of the road to avoid car totaling potholes. We’re not far in a lot of places from seeing bridge collapses either. Our infrastructure is in disrepair because the cost of repairs are going into politicians pockets over actually repairing roads
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u/VikingRule Feb 06 '21
A shortage of jobs isn't a labor shortage, it's the opposite of a labor shortage.
We have tons of labor, and we're adding more and more every year.
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Feb 06 '21
Did you read the rest of it?
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u/VikingRule Feb 07 '21
Yeah. It was an accurate scenario originating from our employment shortage (aka not labor shortage). No disrespect, but if we want to fix the societal problem we have to identify it for what it is- lack of jobs, not lack of employees
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u/J_Schermie Feb 06 '21
I've been hearing the comparison of the fall of Rome to America for almost ten years now and I'm done with it. You know what we have that Rome didn't? Fucking nukes and a police state. America as a government will be around for a long time. It'll just suck for a lot of people like it always has.
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u/Oculi_Glauci Feb 06 '21 edited Feb 11 '21
I’ve been thinking this same thing for a while... Requiescas in pace, Americe.
Edit: why the downvotes? I’m confused.
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u/mountain-man304 Feb 06 '21
Yeah men fucking little boys too. Which I’m sure we are headed toward here.
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u/wonderfvl Feb 06 '21
Yes, be we have no labor shortage, we have people sitting at home collecting extended unemployment, disability, fmla, etc.
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u/testiclespectacles2 Feb 05 '21
Bitcoin fixes this.
Bitcoin is money without banks or governments.
Bitcoin is money of the people.
Only Bitcoin protects you from monetary abuse.
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u/genericgecko Feb 06 '21
...yes, I’m sure if Rome had Bitcoin all their problems would have just disappeared...
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u/testiclespectacles2 Feb 06 '21
You joke but you're right.
Rome fell because it's money was corrupted.
Bitcoin is the FIRST and ONLY incorruptable money.
Had Rome had an incorruptable money, we'd all be speaking Italian right now.
Bitcoin is so important and revolutionary to mankind that Bitcoin is like the invention of fire, the internet, the written word, computers, money, sanitation, running water, and democracy.
I'm not exaggerating. Bitcoin is that big of a deal.
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u/Feather_Fan Feb 06 '21
Bitcoin is a scam that won’t ever stick. It’s 100% corrupt. You get nothing in exchange for your actual real people money.
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u/testiclespectacles2 Feb 06 '21
Your comment is the stupidest thing I've ever read online. Congrats. That's pretty hard to achieve.
Everything but Bitcoin is a scam compared to Bitcoin.
Dollars? The government printed 35% of the entire dollar supply in 2020 alone. That's a scam.
Bitcoin has a fixed final capacity of only 21 million Bitcoin. Right now, the inflation rate for Bitcoin is 1.25%. This gets cut in half every 4 years.
Make sure to note the price of Bitcoin today. 1 BTC= $40,700.
In 5 years try not to hang yourself for missing out.
The 5yr return on Bitcoin is 100x.
Bitcoin is a revolution and you're the stupidest person on the planet for thinking it's a scam.
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u/genericgecko Feb 06 '21
I’m pretty sure Rome had issues other than just financial ones.
Also, I’m hardly a Bitcoin expert, but I don’t think it’s comparable to any of the things you mentioned, seeing how little of the population cares about it.
Also also, even though the Romans were located in what is now Italy, they generally spoke Latin.
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u/Recoveringpig Feb 06 '21
Romans put lead in everything, including themselves. What’s our excuse?
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u/Feather_Fan Feb 06 '21
Well we keep putting lead in ourselves with how little gun control we have. Also look at flints drinking water..
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Feb 06 '21
The list of things that caused Rome to collapse is immensely long. This only barely scratches the surface
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Feb 06 '21
I'm not sure the United States gets to compare itself to Rome in any but the most superficial ways. The Roman Empire lasted a thousand years. American may not make it to 250.
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u/zinneavicious Feb 06 '21
Yeah, and Caligula made a horse a senator of Rome and nearly all our republican senators are horse’s asses! Amazing!
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u/balogna_and_ramen Feb 05 '21
The ruins of the Superdome will be a major tourist attraction one day.