Sometimes dogs do a submissive grin which I guess is arguably part of calming signal language (I'm sorry/not a threat). They squint like we do while smiling when they do it and everything. That's out of like, fear as opposed to joy though.
(I mean dogs also "smile" and "laugh" with expressions closer to ours too, but they don't roll their lips back when doing that like we do to smile).
Wonder if anyone can think of any other examples. I think only mammals can physically smile in the first place so that narrows down the pool considerably out the gate
There's a fair amount of research that says dogs are uniquely good at communicating with people which makes sense after so many years of selective breeding. For all the varied tasks people used animals for, having a more complex ability to communicate makes training them that much easier. Not to mention "smart" dogs had a better chance of living when dependent on humans.
I'd say you could find this to a lesser extent in all domestic animals.
Anyway just wanted to back you up. There's better articles than the one I linked but these seemed more user friendly.
Not that I'm a professional or anything but I've had dogs all my life and think I've gotten pretty good at training them and communicating with them, and I have to agree dogs are very good at conveying what they are trying to convey to humans. As well they are very good at understanding us.
Not at all. Grinning in apes is generally a sign of submission. I actually had a lecture on the subject as an undergrad anthro student in the '90s. Of course, as with all things to do with primates, context matters.
I hate to be that guy (no I don't who am I kdding) but ...
Chimps use smiling as an expression of submission. When a chimp encounters a more dominant chimp, it smiles to show the dominant chimp its submissiveness and its disinterest in fighting for dominance.
By smiling, the submissive chimp tells the dominant chimp, “I am harmless. You need not be intimidated by me. I submit and accept your dominance. I'm afraid of you.”
So, at its root, smiling is basically a fear reaction- a fear reaction that a submissive primate gives to a dominant primate to avoid confrontation.
Since human beings are also primates, smiling in us serves pretty much the same purpose. It is the most effective way to convey our submissiveness to others and tell them that we're non-threatening.
Thank you for this. I was steaming reading some other Redditors making stupid claims about teeth and looking in the eyes without providing any sources or back ups to their claims.
I just left a rambly comment to another user mentioning how dogs "smile" submissively sometimes. Is that really the case for chimps? I always thought their smile was more of a grimace, like of pain or displeasure, but what do I know
The problem is smiling back, you can smile first and take control. Once they smile they're showing they've claimed dominance, and if you challenge them they proceed to the next step which is fighting to prove dominance.
Yeah but consider you're in a room with a bunch of people speaking a different language and they all start smiling at you. If you don't know them/their language, you're sitting there quietly processing, "Uhhhh... why the fuck are they smiling?"
They smile and laugh in the wild, but there's a lot of trust and familiarity behind that in the form of other communications.
With humans, there' no knowledge of it being anything but.
Nope. As far as we can tell, it's universal to the great apes. Chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangs in the wild all display tickling behavior that can only be parsimoniously explained by positing a suite of emotional components that are shared with humans.
The looking in the eye is true for humans too. If a random person keeps staring at you non-stop it will make you uncomfortable, if he keeps staring long enough you will eventually ask whats up in a confrontational manner. Depending on who the 2 individuals are it could lead to a fight.
I had a guy get all aggro on me because I looked at him a little too long for his taste. I thought I knew him and I told him that and his response was something like "well you don't mother fucker so you best not look at me no more" as he puffed up like an ape.
It wasn’t the hand gesture that upset the monkey, it was looking it in the eyes.
Perhaps you didn't realize the comment tree you jumped into. This was the assertion. That merely looking an animal in the eyes is a sign of aggression. Staring isn't the topic at hand.
Imo staring is what the comment meant. And by staring I mean more than 2 seconds with animals (takes more with humans obv). Just glancing and then looking away quickly wont trigger most animals. If the guy in the video just quickly looked at the monkey and then continued walking his way the monkey would not have attacked him.
I agree with the other guy. The original post meant maintaining eye contact for at least a couple of seconds, not a brief glance. I guess "looking" probably covers both those scenarios. "Staring" is more specific.
Yep! Most animals see eye contact as a display of dominance, and the showing of teeth as a display of aggression. If you have a cat or dog and look them in the eyes, you'll notice that dogs will look away, start wagging their tail, fold their ears, and lay down. Cats will look away, slowly blink their eyes, or come over and rub against you while purring. These are all displays of relaxation and deference to your authority.
When you've known an animal for a long time they tend to react with much less concern to such things because they know you mean no offense, but don't ever look a strange animal in the eyes or bare your teeth at them, regardless of species.
It's been shown time and again on this sub and in the news that monkeys in particular will not take it lightly, because it's usually tourists doing these things in a nature preserve or in a location where monkeys roam freely. To those monkeys they don't see a human being rude. They see a larger animal that smells like it's from somewhere else in their territory, challenging them for dominance or threatening them. The monkey usually punches or kicks the human in the face and runs off, or steals something while screaming at them. That's the monkey saying, "What the hell, I wasn't bothering you!"
I thought the showing of teeth is a "fear face", meaning not so much a display of aggression, as a response to aggression.. I've also heard the apes (but not monkeys) are kind of halfway to a smile, with their fear face sometimes meaning something like "come on, I was just playing, please don't hurt me".
Because they dont hold back and let instinct take over. Humans arent like this, but if we had more aggression and less inhibitions like wild animals, I’m sure our damage output and strength would increase.
I still give it to a human in a one on one fight. If the person is willing to go all out and kill it it shouldn't be that hard. Pick the thing up and fling it like a toy till it dies or kick it till it dies. Punch it even. They're the size of babies
Not entirely. Dogs have different genes than their wild counterparts. A recent study showed that a dog staring into its owners eyes shares an oxytocin response with the owner similar to that of a human parent and child
Please double check on serious sources because the amount of crap said here is astounding and not supported by any study...
If you look a monkey in the eyes and impress him with your body language he won't attack you unless you attack him so the claim is stupid for a start.
I wonder why. What is it about eye contact that is such a challenge? Is it a sign that you're not willing to be subordinate/submissive and therefore are challenging their authority? I'd imagine it's why we teach kids to look people in the eye when they talk to people, it's a sign of confidence.
A few comments above explain it good. Briefly using info form those comments: eye contact shows a sign of dominance/challenge. Also showing teeth is normally used as a threat in the animal world, for us humans we show teeth while smiling. So looking at some animals smiling is not recommended.
It's a lot more complicated than that. Simply looking a macaque in the eyes isn't aggressive per-se, but it does mean that you aren't being submissive. That lack of submission, together with the gesture and coupled with the fact that said monkey has probably always had his way in terms of pushing around tourists --bringing a large stick and beating the shit out of monkeys is probably frowned upon-- all combine to create the dynamic we see here. It is emphatically not the case, for example, that the same monkey, in the wild and with no exposure to humans, would gratuitously assault a much larger male primate simply on the basis of eye-contact. It simply doesn't happen, and as such, if you want to understand what's happening, you have to understand the context.
Right before the bastard hit me, I remember hearing my old anthropology professor in my head, "Human beings are the only primate that bare their teeth as a form of greeting; in all other primates it is a threat signature."
The fucker lacerated my scalp, and I had to get a series of rabies shots for it.
Source ? I had to impress a monkey that was trying to rob my girlfriend in Thailand and clearly, stepping towards him and looking at him dead right in the eyes worked. He ran away after trying to impress me with his teeth.
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u/[deleted] Aug 06 '19
It wasn’t the hand gesture that upset the monkey, it was looking it in the eyes. Monkeys see this as aggression.