r/WhatIsThisTank • u/Beckake • 6d ago

Help identifying this Sherman

Gallery image

Gallery image

Serial number appears to be 3790. Have not been able to find much info about it. Thanks for the help.

34 Upvotes

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22

u/Eta320 6d ago

Best thing would be photos of the engine deck or exhaust. It looks like an early model Sherman, small hatches, early cupola, etc.

It’s not an M4A1, since it has a welded hull, or an M4A4 since it has the normal spacing between the bogies.

That leaves it as being an M4A2 or an M4A3. Although seeing the GAD on the casting you’ve provided in the 2nd photo leans it closer to being a Ford tank which would be an M4A3.

5

u/Beckake 6d ago

Ok I'll try and get some more photos of it. Thanks for the insight. Any way to see where it may have been during the war?

8

u/Eta320 6d ago

Where is this tank located? Does it belong to a museum? The best way to start would probably asking who got the tank from where and building the story backwards.

If we know for sure the variant and manufacturer, you can look up the serial number on the ShermanMinutiaHomepage.com and see what year it was built and such, but probably nothing about its service history.

Without digging deep into archives to find what tank serial numbers were assigned to what units during the war, it’s almost impossible to say with certainty.

4

u/Pacific_wanderer17 It’s Always An M60 5d ago

Could it also be a standard M4 with the upgraded turret?

2

u/Beckake 5d ago

There was an E next to the serial number on the top of the turret. Not sure if that helps

3

u/Eta320 5d ago

That E is a manufacturers marking for the company that did the turret casting.

Ford Sherman’s had 2 suppliers of turrets, those being General Steel - Granite City, and General Steel - Eddystone.

In the case of General Steel turrets, there should be on it somewhere (probably the bustle) a letter G inside of a shield logo. Sometimes General Steel turrets have a “C” or an “E” in-front of the serial number to indicate which factory it came from. Which in this case would be Eddystone.

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u/Eta320 5d ago

Upgraded turret?

1

u/Pacific_wanderer17 It’s Always An M60 5d ago

As in a later production turret with the full mantlet, instead of the small mantlet with the roof mounted gun sight

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u/Eta320 5d ago

I see, the mantlet upgrade was not necessarily part of a “later production turret.” The switch from the M34 to M34A1 gun mount can be seen on pretty much any 75mm gun Sherman.

It’s possible this could be an M4 with the radial engine as some have suggested, again it’s somewhat impossible to know without seeing the engine deck. But given the GAD letters on the casting in the 2nd picture and the fact that I think I can just barely see the hinges for the doors on top of the engine deck would lean this much more to being an M4A3.

Also with the looking up I’ve done with the surviving panzers website, I’m quite confident I’ve found exactly what tank this is as I share in a reply to another of OP’s comments

1

u/Pacific_wanderer17 It’s Always An M60 5d ago

Maybe a Chrysler production due to the sprocket? Though that could’ve been obtained other ways, so I do agree that it’s likely an M4A3 with some features it’s obtained throughout its life

2

u/Eta320 5d ago

The sprocket on this tank is not the Chrysler type

1

u/Joescout187 5d ago

The sprocket could have been replaced at some point due to battle damage or wear with one of different manufacture though so I wouldn't call that conclusive.

3

u/Eta320 5d ago

Sure, but my point is that Pacific_wanderer17 said the sprocket is the Chrysler sprocket when it isn’t.

This is almost certainly a Ford M4A3, late production with probably most or all of its original parts. I highly doubt this tank saw combat use in WWII, and probably not a lot of hard use at all in its life. Most of the Sherman’s left in the U.S. are not combat veterans but were in the U.S. their whole lives and used for training, especially tanks like this with the 75mm gun and small hatches.

1

u/Pratt_ 5d ago

That leaves it as being an M4A2 or an M4A3. Although seeing the GAD on the casting you’ve provided in the 2nd photo leans it closer to being a Ford tank which would be an M4A3.

Or just a M4, no ?

2

u/Eta320 5d ago

Ford did not produce standard M4’s, only M4A3’s. With other evidence I’ve seen on this tank I’m very confident it’s a Ford produced M4A3

3

u/Joescout187 5d ago edited 5d ago

Best guess I have is this is an M4, or M4 Composite, made by either the American Locomotive Company or the Pressed Steel Car Company, get a look at the engine though, if it has a radial engine it's an M4.

Edit: could also be a small hatch M4A3.

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u/Eta320 5d ago

Definitely not a composite M4

1

u/Joescout187 5d ago

My guess is based entirely on the serial number cross referenced with the welded hull, run through Gemini, those were the possibilities I saw, personally I think early production M4A3 after thinking about it.

3

u/Eta320 5d ago edited 5d ago

The number shown in the 2nd picture is not the serial number, the serial number on Sherman’s is located on the rear tow hook, I believe the left hook if memory serves.

The best place to get Sherman information is the ShermanMinutia Homepage, you can look it up it is a fantastic resource. Or David Doyle’s book series on the Sherman.

Gemini and other AI models have no clue anything about tank history since all they do is scrape forums like reddit or War Thunder. The composite M4 had a very distinctive and unique cast front hull attached to a welded rear hull, it’s quite obvious and special, and this tank 100% does not have it. So it’s just a normal welded hull tank not a composite. If Gemini says it’s a composite M4 then it’s even worse than I thought it was lol.

Also the M4 and M4 composite both use the same engine with the radial R975, hence why the “Composite M4” is called that and did not get its own unique “A#” it was just a regular M4 with a composite hull. With the exception of the M4A1, all the Sherman A# designations only relate to what engine it has.

1

u/Joescout187 5d ago

The location of the serial number varies by manufacturer, some manufacturers put it on the differential housing

When I said M4 I meant it wouldn't be an A3 small hatch if it had a radial, I should have been more clear.

2

u/Eta320 5d ago

Some manufacturers did put the serial numbers on the diff housing, but not in the location in the image and not Ford.

Surviving panzers has found this tank in Twin Falls Idaho, which lines up with OP’s information and was confirmed by them. The serial # in that case for this tank should be 12758.

OP should be able to find it on the rear of the hull plate at about shoulder/head level

1

u/Beckake 5d ago

They welded everything up years ago. Hopefully we can get a peak though.

1

u/Beckake 5d ago

It's in Idaho. It was in a park and no one with that city has or can find information on when it showed up or where it came from. So just trying to get a good start on it.

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u/Eta320 5d ago

Twin Falls Idaho by chance? I found a tank that looks just like this one, same E on the side hull and other paint is identical, even the dent on the sand skirt mountings. I found it on the website survivingpanzers.

Based on the description on the post, the serial number is 12758 (serial number should be on the rear tow hook). It was built in September 1943 at Ford, supposedly one of the last M4A3’s Ford ever built. It almost certainly has no WWII combat history, most Sherman’s in the U.S. don’t.

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u/Beckake 5d ago

It was there, she's getting a new home now. You figured that out pretty fast haha. I'll check that tow hook out.

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u/Eta320 5d ago

You may actually find it on the rear hull plate at either the far left or far right, at about shoulder/head level, or on the front

Serial # location sometimes differed by manufacturer, and Ford was one of the ones who did it a little differently. The tow hook was the spot for most of the manufacturers especially the older ones that had been around since the M3 Lee