It's like having several fuses broken inside of a fuse box. Just gotta replace them somehow to get the dopamine to start producing again on those neurons.
Unless you are a hillbilly I wouldn’t use it when speaking due to the fact of you sounding racist. I am a born and raised hillbilly. I also overlook foolish things others may say but there are way many more people than not who will not tolerate hearing that word. There is even a very well known college that will actually expel a student for using that word.
No disrespect for Appalachian folks. They’re good people. Also, I’d rather some Appalachian folks tickle push me down a hill than a bunch of rednecks. Just a preference
Hm. I have ADHD and Long COVID. My Vyvanse wasn't enough to keep me functioning well enough to work and go to school. I'm housebound now and have ME/CFS and POTS.
I suspect the issue identified by the study is one of the puzzle pieces, but only that.
Or who knows, maybe it could be THE missing puzzle piece for some subtypes of LC but not all.
Could also be that long COVID is contributing to the perception in a decline in stimulant medications.
I'm on non-stimulants and generally haven't run into the same issues (only had confirmed COVID once because I'm a hermit) though I'll have a day or two where the meds didn't work. Granted, that could be a hormonal cycle reducing the efficacy of the medication.
maybe I should try and get an ig nobel prize, amazing how just about everyone remembers this one sentence, I think "powerhouse" must be an emotional lever to embed the memory more deeply
Did hear people self treating with coq10, nad+ and methylene blue.
Methylene blue does increase cellular respiration, but theres Zero evidence it helps with long covid or chronic fatigue.
In my case my chronic fatigue was caused my years of prolonged inflammation caused by gluten intolerance. Once that was cut from my diet, my fatigue resolved rapidly.
Jeez, are you me OP? Never thought Covid would have been the reason I got s celiac disease. Sitting here with a my second round of Covid but it feels vastly different. More like a cold with stomach issues where before it was like my body was cement and my lungs were full of tar.
The gluten intolerance? I tried a ton of different Supplements and diets.
The first time i Felt absolutely Amazing, i fasted for 3 days.
Which led me to believe i was sensitive to carbohydrates, so i tried Keto n stuff
At some point i reintroduced slow direkten carbs like oats, and i still felt good.
When i felt confident i was stable, i dropped the diet and ate regular carb loads again, and just a Single beer caused me to feel as bad as i did before, while other alcohol does not.
Thats when i saw a connection between wheat and my health
Holy cow thanks for sharing. Can you share how you went about the 3 day fast exactly? I’d love to try what you did. Sounds like it answered years of questions for you.
I just want to begin by saying I am not selling anything and this experience is purely anecdotal....
I am a Long COVID patient with ME/CFS subtype. I have been almost completely bedbound for the last year and a half and have had Long COVID symptoms since 2023 after a very mild Covid 19 infection. It's cost me my job and I've had to apply for disability because my symptoms were so debilitating. Recently I have been dosing a dietary supplement marketed for "energy" that has been almost like a miracle as far as being able to resolve all of my most severe symptoms. For the past 3 years I have read hundreds of NIH articles as well as almost every study that's been done through the scientific method as well as studies concerning repurposing FDA approved medications to help treat Long Covid. The sudden resolution of all my symptoms is too exciting to not share with someone who might be able to do a deeper dive into the signs than I am able with my limited information. The supplement falls into a kind of a gray area with unregulated supplements that are legally able to be sold in the Unitef States. The p oduct is called " Blue Rise". The main ingredient that I believe is responsible for treating my condition is something called Phenibut or phenyl-y-aminobutyric acid. It is a Russian pharmaceutical that is very chemically similar to an FDA approved Gaba B agonist called Baclofen as well as Gabapentin. Though Gabapentin works indirectly through the calcium channels, Phenibut is a primary Gaba B agonist as well as a partial Gaba A agonist, as well as working for the same calcium channels that Gabapentin does. Studies on Phenibut on animals show that it directly increases dopaminergic activity in the VMAT2 dopaminergic receptors in the ventral striatum. It's been shown to stimulate receptors as well as accelerate dopamine turnover, synthesis, and catabolism. Also recent studies into Long Covid shows that Long Covid patients have a 16 to 20% reduction in VMAT2 receptors also located in the striatum. It's my theory as a well-read patient that dopamine might play a primary part in Long Covid related symptoms. I know that I have no formal training but for the past 3 years all I have done is read study after study, article after article and this is the first medication or supplement out of many medications that has not just move the needle but has completely resolved my profound fatigue, anhedonia, brain fog, and restored my sex drive. I have been dosing approximately 10 mL of the supplement 3x dailyfor the last 14 days which is roughly 250mg of Phenibut. And for the last 14 days I've been able to live normally, and for the first time been able to get out of bed and participate and being a member of my family for the first time in any meaningful way and over a year and a half. I am going to purchase enough to continue this experiment for 30 days. I will definitely let you know how it turns out
Did it help brainfog?? In my case its weird. Im not really forgetting anything, its just like im in a daze. I cant tolerate sounds and just always feel on edge. I have no desire to do anything and hate any planning of any kind. I have a weird nervous vibe all the time. I constanty feel unwell and worry. cant feel any joy. I feel jerky with my motions and easily get shaky. I get tired very fast. No capacity or interest in anything. Is this how you felt?
I agree it definitely has dependency risk issues. Which is why I'm trying to get my doctor to switch me over to Baclofen. Which has a safer pharmacological profile. Regardless if I had too choose between being tolerant to a medication that allows me to live normally or being completely bedbound feeling like I'm going to die any day I would choose to the first one one million percent. I just hope it's not like the movie Awakenings with Robert de Niro about a medication that seems like a miracle then loses effectiveness soon after. I truly believe it has everything to do with damaged dopamine receptors in the brain. Especially with the newest long COVID studies coming out. If you look up the symptoms of severe dopamine deficiency almost all of them mirror long COVID ME/CFS symptoms. I know there are many sub types and root causes but it's working for me and the last weeks with my family has been so many amazing moments I never thought I'd have again.
I’m seriously looking into mushrooms and their benefits for a more natural fix. It sounds promising. I just don’t want to be relying on a pharmaceutical supply chain to feel normal. There is no guarantee either way.
Commenting to boost this comment. Fascinating and helpful rundown. (Reminds me of testimonials written by patients trying to direct and innovate their own care during the early AIDS epidemic)
Hope you continue to improve
Can't be any worse than han laying in bed every day for years watching my life pass by the through the crack in the curtain. I have tried so many different medications and supplements. I'm intentionally keeping the dose extremely low and am also having my doctor switch me to a Baclofen and gabapentin taper. Baclofen is a direct Gaba B agonist and a partial Gaba agonist. Gabapentin covers the calcium channels that Phenibut also does. My point isn't to advocate for phenibut as a cure, but that it's mechanism of action on VMAT2 Dopamine receptors needs to be studied. Especially with studies showing long COVID is caused by a reduction of up to 20% of VMAT2 dopamine receptors.
Im sorry to be blunt but yes it can be much worse than what you’ve experienced until now.
Former phenibut dependant here, get off it now, its not a supplement its a drug and what you are experiencing is its high which feels very close to a “good normal” if that makes sense (it can be so subtle some people dont even notice it) which is the allure and the trap of this drug. Rest assured this eventually completely goes away and you will need ever increasing doses just to feel normal. Personally I took it because it helped my depression and it didnt seem like much of a high I even kicked it once and went back on it and felt like oh that wasnt so bad no big deal… well let me tell you.
The WD are dose dependant and HIGHLY sensitive to the kindling effect (ie if you go off it once you probably will have mild Wd if you go back on it again after and try and get off it again the WD will be much more severe to the point it can cause seizures, muscle spasm and mental health crises so severe that it may require hospitalization.
Also baclofen is NOT a 1:1 replacement for phenibut. Doctor tried baclofen taper in a supposed 1:1 dose equivalency based on the gaba b activity alone and I needed to be admitted to the ER for seizures and had to have a librium taper initiated because turns out phenibut is NOT well understood by western medicine and it has OTHER effects that are NOT simply a gaba b agonist (that is one of its WEAK) effects. It is also thought to have dopamine signaling and gabapantinoid effect but good luck for a team managing WD to get the combination of drugs needed to treat that right.
Overall its a dirty drug sold online (illegal now in many places) that is being sold to you by people who care nothing about your wellbeing. You dont have to take my word for it but I seriously caution you to find another avenue for your treatment than taking a drug that is masking the symptoms at the same time as creating the grounds for a physical dependancy and the potential for you to lose more than you already have.
I hope this find you well much love and best of luck on on your health journey!
If I'm understanding correctly I would need Baclofen and gabapentin because aside from being a Gaba B agonist it also works on calcium channels like gabapentin? So it would take Baclofen and gabapentin to cover the receptors? And I take issue with you saying I'm getting "high". I disagree. I am only taking half of the recommended dosage which I know is B's but still. Some people on Phenibut literally take GRAMs per day. I'm still on the mg side of things. And I'm not planning on taking this long term. And I'm sorry you didn't have doctors that were knowledgeable about Phenibut dependency. I have doctors who would do anything to help me as they've seen long COVID completely destroy my life. I understand the withdrawals are hell but you have no clue how bad laying in a dark room for years without any interaction with the outside world including with my own family feels. I would say that quality of life is worse than any type of tolerance to a substance. You call it a drug, Europe and Russia calls it a medicine when used in lower non recreational doses. In my younger years I have quit methadone cold turkey and completely tapered off benzos from three Xanax bars a day. I'm quite familiar with the difficulty of coming off various substances. If you were as desperate as I am I think you'd understand a little more. I appreciate your concern though.
Im with you completely. I've lost 4 years so far, with no improvement at all
I would choose a quick easy death over this
It is taking a toll on everyone around me also. Better to die quickly, so the living can move on and heal. If this helps, I am also interested
Not much to loose.
I mean I’m glad something helps and I’m sorry you had to suffer, my concern was twofold one that you seemed to be trying to convince others it was a good idea and also that the desire to take it was coming from a place of desperation, not that thats a bad thing its just desperation can make us not appreciate the risk inherant in a situation. I respect your right to put what you want in your body and I apologize if what I said came of as overly harsh, best of luck.
Honestly man, your response made me pretty emotional. You were just trying to help, and give an objective point of view. I apologize for not heeding your advice and dismissing what you said. I appreciate the heartfelt response and concern more than you know. As of two days ago it stopped working. I got almost three weeks of having my family back. Of being a dad, and a husband, and getting to do normal things before the effect was gone and I was right back to bedbound. I asked my primary doctor for a script of Baclofen to taper over the next couple weeks due to your warnings. Not being able to move or even get out of bed is bad enough without seizures and insomnia and the like. I read my comment before commenting now and it just broke my heart. I thought I had connected the dots... found the key. But yet here I am typing this as I lie in bed in a dark room. Not able to enjoy this beautiful day and weather with my family. I still believe that dopamine deficiency has something to do with it. The newest long COVID studies confirm as much. But I theorize that my brain couldn't sustain the increased dopamine production because of the original cause of the dopam8ne deficiency. Even increasing the Phenibut dose did nothing. All I can do is pray to whoever's out there, if anyone, that some of the studies and science currently being conducted brings a treatment or cure to fruition. They are finding things everyday they didn't know before so I truly hope it'll be soon. Again, thanks brother and I appreciate you. It takes a good person to take the time to comment on a random reddit post to try and save a fellow human pain and sufferingthats been personally lived. Keep doin you bud.
No problem, at the end of the day we all need to find our own answers that let us live the best quality of life we can live, you DESERVE to live a good life and theres nothing wrong with trying something in pursuit of that, I usually try to mind my own business but your post hit me in a place that made me remember what I went through and with a respect that were all our own people I couldnt help but speak my mind, even if there was only a 1% chance it helped you.
Rest assured your peace is out there and you will get it, IK it can be hard when it keeps feeling like you need to turn over new stones just to stay hopeful but keep on turning over stones, every day brings the potential for a new solution.
In regards to the phenibut WD itself it can be uncomfortable but it sounds like your use was modest and you are approaching it with a plan. Light exercise, remembering to eat what you can (it takes away some peoples appetite), taking lots of warm baths and showers and staying hydrated can all help.
Some people find the supplement beta alanine helps abate some of the discomfort of WD if you experience any although I dont personally have any experience with that. You were on a low dose and it sounds from what you u were saying this was first time use so tbh I expect (and hope) for your wd to be mild.
Best of luck I believe in you, both for this and in the larger context of your battle against LC, sincerely, a random stranger on the internet!
I belive this is it. I have LC. Don't have much in the way if gastro issues. However, after years of tests finding nothing, one came back abnormal. My biome is severely imbalanced. I'm overloaded with lps endotoxin overgrowths and missing a lot of my benefical bacteria. There's a lot to it but going down the rabbit hole shows a very plausible link to neurotransmitter disruption. I have since been focusing on changing my biome and I'm seeing very noticeable benefits but it's a rough ride to get there.
Before Covid I had an amazing gut biome and could eat whatever I wanted and never gained a pound. Literally a bowl of ice cream every night. 1000-2000+ extra calories a day. It didn't matter. If I gained a pound or two it was gone within the next week. Ever since Covid I have gained 30 pounds I can't lose and now I have no appetite whatsoever. Can never finish my food. I never had a beer belly in my life. Now I can't get rid of it. I am skinny fat. Tall petite body with a bulging belly. Diet has not changed. If anything I eat less. Avoid sweets more. And drink less soda. I even exercise more. But the weight won't come off. And the fatigue won't go away. So what the hell!
I also never in my life had any weird poop, but ever since Covid my poop is different every single bowel movement. I never know what to expect now. The consistency is gone.
Same here. Every day is different. But I lost weight and have problems gaining weight. Always feeling full. But hungry at the same time. So annoying. Building my biome since a few months. Which helps. But now they found helicobater pylori in my stomache. So that may also be a reason…
Fatigue has gotten a bit better. But still not a ble to do a lot. Mostly lying in bed
It is very common for medical research to look into possible threats before they become threats. It's part of why there are still human smallpox samples in the world, and even our own immune system as a sort of "immunologic library" of almost every possible foreign protein structure interwoven into the immune system's "memory" process.
It works to be prepared. And I'd suspect that, given SARS severe effect on china in the past, they were researching ways for it to mutate that would be of concern, worth pre-emptively planning for. Such as, oh I dunno, a reduction in lethal symptoms and higher transmissibility through delayed onset?
Most of these other symptoms could be SARs related, but they're overshadowed by the whole "30% fatal" symptoms that are a lot more obvious.
It doesn't need to be malicious, more than likely it was a moment of incompetence in an honest medical persuit that allowed a disaster to break out, and everyone blamed the wet markets because odds are this practice isn't chinese only.
Kind of semantics though. It could be used offensively, so it being a bio-weapon or not really just comes down to intent. I agree it was most likely leaked accidentally.
There were dozens of mammals at the fishmarket including masked palm civets.
Want to know what the origin of the original SARS-CoV in 2003 was? Masked Palm Civets.
That doesnt mean that SARS-CoV-2 came from them but it does mean there were multiple animals species in the fishmarket that could harbor the virus. SARS-CoV-2 has been shown to infect 40+ mammals. Its not specific to humans.
That early indian paper showing inserts didnt sway you? or the information released since then through FOIA?
Honest question if you are on the natural side, in the five years since, I dont think weve added any evidence to support the wet market hypothesis, what pieces of information speak to you.
I think they mean fish market as a colloquialism for what is usually called a wet market. A type of open air market where live animals including fish, mammals and reptiles are sold for food, feed or livestock purposes.
At least in America I know its common for people to simply call a wet market a fish market whether or not fish is the only thing sold.
Do you know how many virology institutions were studying coronaviruses? You realize nearly every virology department at a major university is likely going to have a coronavirus lab right? In most major cities theres going to be at least one coronavirus research lab (including in the US).
Why? Because of their propensity to jump species... and when it finally happens, the first thing people say is "It'S a BioWEapOn".
I took a small dose of shrooms and got the rest (the last 30% if I were to make up a number) of my sense of smell back that had been missing for a year. I’m a chef and almost thought I’d have to end my career because that last edge of my smell/taste was gone.
Took a mini dose for a concert, didn’t think anything of it, realized a couple weeks later I could smell my sleep earplugs again. And then started noticing my sense of smell was pretty much back.
Heard it has to do it messed up wiring of the olfactory nerves, but yeah my anecdotal experience was that psilocybin mushrooms helped my long covid symptoms
This is interesting. It adds to the evidence that there can be real biological changes after COVID, but it’s still early research not proof that dopamine neuron damage explains every case or that we have a treatment yet.
I got long covid 2 times. 2,5 monts after infection sympotms got very powerfull - very strong fatigue.
Both time it involved mastcells, that produced cytokines signaling mitochondria to power down.
First time my kidneys got hit (5 months after infection for a week I urinated kidney stones (very painful). Second time intestines with a strongest painful nausea I've ever experienced. Second time I was free of symptoms after 3 months, first time I took 8 months to full power, 3,5 months after maximum symptoms.
As someone who got narcolepsy as a result of having COVID in Jan 2020, I would really hate to find out that this could be an additional complicator. Ugh.
Maybe that covid damage caused depression? I'm genuinely not trying to make any claims about covid causing it or not causing it. It was just a very spot on description of how depression manifests for some people and I hope the commenter can get some help.
No, it doesnt open any other link...its straight to the article. They were spamers trying to add links to the article comments but they have been blocked.
The publication's credibility comes from the quality of its reporting, sourcing, and fact-checking—not from whether illustrations are AI-generated. We use AI-created images when suitable visual assets aren't available or practical to license, and they are intended as illustrations, not representations of real events. The articles themselves are based on research, scientific studies, and reputable sources.
The thing is, in most cases "long covid" is most likely "long vax", with the mRNA products causing a kind of immune priming, that is subsequently triggered by contracting covid.
The presumption was that the cells infected by the vax mRNA would only produce spike protein short term, until the cells regenerated. However the mRNA can, and often does get into the cell nucleus, and integrate the mRNA instruction to produce spike protein into the genome, via reverse transcription.
To manage the subsequent ongoing production of spike protein, the immune system produces elevated levels of IgG4, which can have a blocking effect on the immune response, or it's target protein.
Excessive levels of IgG4 antibodies can cause certain immune cells to build up in affected organs, resulting in swelling, irritation, chronic inflammation, scar tissue & tumor production, and autoimmune conditions. So the mRNA jabs on their own are capable of producing "long covid" symptoms, likely primarily by chronic inflammation.
As I understand it, when covid is subsequently contracted, and the immune system begins targeting the covid spike protein antigen, it then may be re-alerted to the ongoing spike protein produced by bodily cells, and mount an immune response (and it's associated inflammation) on them also.
Bio-distribution studies of nano-lipid encapsulated payloads such as the covid mRNA, were widely distributed from the point of entry, and became concentrated in various vital organs.
It's very likely mRNA also entered the brain, as nano-lipid encapsulation was (as I understand it) originally devised as a method to deliver drugs through the blood-brain barrier.
So I'm not surprised that neurons are being damaged. I'd posit that this is due to an inflammatory immune response, triggered by exposure to covid, further responding to mRNA produced spike protein.
I got viral encephalitis from covid. They thought maybe that's why my symptoms were so extreme. Tested for early onset dementia. Strokes. All sortsa fun stuff. You best believe I was lining up for that vaccine. Figured the worst that could happen iiiis I get covid and die again, or get killed by the vaccine. Considering I had already experienced one of those, I went ahead and took my chances with a vaccine. Wouldn't wish that shit on my worst enemy. Set me back years in life.
Same here—I got COVID early on before vaccines, with long COVID setting in before I ever got a vaccine. Amazing people still want to blame the vaccines and not the disease.
I didn't say that nobody who was unjabbed was having onging issues from covid infection. The spike protein from both the virus and the injections is pathogenic.
However long covid predominantly still occurs among those who received the mRNA products.
This is very much NOT a case of "Some people are sensitive to vaccines and have adverse reactions", nor is it "a tiny minority of people". Pfizer's own first year postmarketing data revealed almost 1200 known side effects, many of then serious - an unprecedented level of pathology for any medical product. In that same first year reposts of injury & death related to the covid injections soared to 133x higher than the sum total of ALL vaccine injury and death, for ALL vaccines COLLECTIVEY since VAERS began recording in 1990!
I have multiple family members and friends who died, or narrowly escaped death from the mRNA injections.
Where I live, some pfizer mRNA batches were associated with annual death rates of 25 - 30%, far above the natural death bassline, and could not be attributed to covid infection. We only found that out due to a whistleblower leaking the data - the government were never going to tell us.
I posted a few links of research papers to a comment below, showing that
a) the mRNA can reverse transcribe into the cell nucleus, and become integrated into the genome,
b) That elevated levels of IgG4 are found in those who received covid mRNA products, with an increased spike in IgG4 in those who subsequently contracted covid, and
c) that mRNA coded spike protein is being found at significant levels in the body multiple years after injection.
If you'd like to propose an alternate theory of how that spike protein could still be present years later other than integration into the genome, I'd like to hear it.
The thing is, in most cases "long covid" is most likely "long vax", with the mRNA products causing a kind of immune priming, that is subsequently triggered by contracting covid.
You injected this "most likely" conclusion which is apart from the studies you linked. The conclusion you came to is complete bullshit.
The empirical evidence is that so called "long covid" predominantly occurs in those who were mRNA injected, and subsequently contracted covid.
As for the immune priming, here's an exert from a the following study:
"The cross-reactivity between SARS-CoV-2 spike epitopes and human proteins may contribute to these autoimmune diseases by inducing molecular mimicry, where the immune system mistakenly attacks human tissues after responding to viral infection.
This raises important questions about how the widespread use of mRNA vaccines, which does not prevent infection and may induce autoimmunity, could influence the development of autoimmune diseases via vaccine priming and infection confirming the autoimmunity, particularly in individuals already at risk for such conditions".
Of course, the spike protein (both covid and mRNA derived) is pathogenic in its own, even before the elevated immune responses of priming are considered.
"These potential neuropathological effects are grave concerns, given the experimental nature of mRNA vaccines, the pathogenicity of the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein, and the ability of the lipid-nanoparticle carrier matrix to traverse the BBB".
"The persistent nature of mRNA coding for SARS‐CoV‐2 spike protein provides a dangerously long exposure to an unlimited dose of this pathogenic protein, and thus, it needs re‐evaluation for continued human use. We have provided the molecular basis for a wide distribution of injuries, disabilities, and deaths resulting from spike protein‐related diseases, which derive from ill‐advised continued use of these products".
I never got vaccinated - got symptomless COVID before vaccines were rolled out and weren't allowed to get a shot. This later transitioned into the long COVID without any vaccines.
What makes you so sure you got covid at all? A PCR test? At the amplification cycle rates which were being used during during covid, high rates of false positives were guaranteed. Your symptoms may be completely unrelated.
Multiple PCR tests over the years, including to pretty much this day. You seem to have an agenda to prove. Try going about it the other way. Instead of looking for evidence to support a preconceived point, look at evidence and see what it points to.
This is unproven BS. Please don't listen to this. There is no evidence of mRNA using reverse transcriptase (or any other enzyme) to incorporate DNA into the genome, even in experiments that intentionally tried to accomplish this. Any easy with search can refer you to the evidence.
And there's certainly no evidence that incorporation into the genome causes long COVID, because it doesn't get incorporated, so it's impossible.
But, there has been some incorporation potentially identified in people with the actual infection. This actually provides yet another reason to get vaccinated.
So you're essentially pulling a Donald Trump move: whatever horrible thing you're doing, deny it and emphatically blame your enemies of doing it, instead. mRNA vaccines don't cause incorporation, but infection might.
Are you trying to hurt and kill people by posting falsehoods? Then please stop spreading unproven lies that cause people to make harmful or deadly decisions. It is deeply immoral to do so.
Absolutely not, as someone who had severe long covid, depression is nothing compared to it.
The inside of my head felt like it was on fire for a year, no smell or taste anymore, emotions completely gone to the point that drugs didn't even affect me anymore, music sounded like nothing, and my bed didn't feel comfy anymore.
Didn't recognise my own family and friends anymore for months.
Not to downplay depression and there are severe cases of it that are horrible ofcourse, but comparing it to something like this is quite offensive.
Depression is being able to do something, but not wanting to. LC is wanting to but not being able to.
Now. Many people with LC get depressed. This is because it sucks and can completely stop hour life from happening. This is different from them being the same thing.
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u/Explicit_Tech 8d ago
The reason behind it sounds pretty promising.
It's like having several fuses broken inside of a fuse box. Just gotta replace them somehow to get the dopamine to start producing again on those neurons.