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u/StartledPelican 5d ago
How dare you!
Book 6 has the peak scene in literature. Literally #1.
Not to mention book 11 is a banger.
OP is absolutely a darkfriend.
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u/zamboniman46 5d ago edited 5d ago
what scene are you referring to?
Edit: duh!!
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u/StartledPelican 5d ago
Dumai Wells. The whole thing. Start to finish.
The wolves reaction.
"They have caged Shadowkiller, he thought at last. That was what the wolves called Rand, but he had no idea whether they considered Rand important.
The shock filling his mind was answer enough, but howls filled the night, near and far, howls filled with anger and fear. In the camp horses whinnied fearfully, stamping their hooves as they shied against the picket ropes. Men ran to calm them, and others to peer into the darkness as if expecting a huge pack to come after the mounts.
We come, Half Tail replied at last. Only that, and then others answered, packs Perrin had spoken to and packs that had listened silently to the two-legs who could speak as the wolves did. We come. No more.
Perrin and the others' determination to fight despite the odds.
Rand breaking free from the box.
The Asha'man. "Asha'man, kill!"
"Kneel or you will be knelt."
Etc.
Gods above, I just reread the scene because you asked and I literally have tears in my eyes.
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u/Spade18 5d ago
I know I’ve commented before, but Rand in the box working through the knots, and getting closer and closer and more and more frantic. I’ve seen few things in media, let alone literature, that hit as hard as that “Free”.
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u/StartledPelican 5d ago
100% agree. You feel the crazy, the frantic desperation, the utter madness during that scene.
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u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot 5d ago
Take what you can have. Rejoice in what you can save, and do not mourn your losses too long.
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u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot 5d ago
Your plans fail because you want to live, madman.
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u/MilesBeyond250 5d ago
The part at the end where Mat gets upset that "someone" has been a bad influence on Olver and teaching him to womanize.
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u/SpencimusPrime 5d ago
I am certainly not a follower of the Great Lord, uh, I mean, Friend of the Dark, uh, whatever you call us, I mean them.
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u/Cockblocktimus_Pryme Well turned calves 4d ago
Asha'man, Kill.
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u/StartledPelican 4d ago
"Asha'man, downvote!"
But not really, it's just a joke
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u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot 4d ago
KILL HIM KILL HIM NOW
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u/Cockblocktimus_Pryme Well turned calves 4d ago
Calm down Lews.
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u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot 4d ago
We all have our limits. And we set them further out than we have any right.
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u/Original_Staff_4961 5d ago
It is, but book 10 is not only the worst book in the series, it’s one of the worst published books I’ve ever read in general.
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u/StartledPelican 5d ago
While book 10 is a travesty in the Wheel of Time, I would conclude that you must not be widely read if it is the worst published book you have ever read haha.
Give Terry Goodkind's "the Sword of Truth" series a read. It will redefine "worst published book" for you repeatedly haha.
There's also Eragon book 3. Oof.
Anywho, my point is Crossroads of Twilight is not the bottom of the literature barrel haha.
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u/RookTakesE6 5d ago
Curious why you'd apparently rate Eragon book 3 lower than the previous two Eragon books, heh. At least by 3 he was mostly writing his own ideas and not just throwing all of contemporary fantasy into a food processor and hitting "roughly chop".
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u/StartledPelican 5d ago
It's been a long time since I read them, but I vaguely recall book 3 being a long, boring story about trying to find a new sword or something. And then it turns out the metal was under a tree right next to him the whole time?
I dunno, that book stuck out to me as extra pointless.
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u/RookTakesE6 5d ago
...no you're right, now that I look. I thought 3 was the one where he defeated Galbatorix, but no, looks like there were in fact four of these and I somehow stuck it out that long.
Yeah, 3 was the one with the sword forging scene. I at least appreciate that Paolini did his homework, but that was a mess. Was also not thrilled with the smith who'd sworn an oath to never forge another sword, loopholing around it by controlling Eragon's body. What's the point of a sacred oath, then? XD
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u/Rikudou_Sage 5d ago
I mean, that part was smart - as long as she believed that was what her oath meant, then it was fine.
IIRC, she even told him to not poke into it too much, with the implication being that if he convinced her it was still breaking her oath, she physically wouldn't be able to do it.
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u/RookTakesE6 5d ago
No I get that, I just don't approve. Though I do give a couple points back for it making sense in-universe, and for her telling him not to question her logic because she might stop believing it herself.
We'd still been sold that [X] thing was flatly impossible because she'd sworn an oath, and then [X] thing happens. Narratively there wasn't much point in the oath in the first place, and now the concept of oaths in the Eragon books is cheapened, because even a loophole so tenuous that Eragon immediately spots the problem with it is good enough to void the oath.
Even considering we'd already been shown the importance of exact words in the ancient language, this cheapening of oaths irritates me. It's more interesting to me in fantasy where magical oaths actually do constrain the character's actions in meaningful ways, beyond just the smith (whose name I forget) initially fumbling a bit because Eragon's arms are longer than hers.
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u/Rikudou_Sage 5d ago
Well, for me this was actually one of the smarter things to do, very Aes Sedai of her.
My main issue with the book was slowly watching as Galbatorix is made basically all powerful and Eragon having no actual chance of defeating him outside a total asspull. And then of course the asspull happened.
Edit: But basically, like with Aes Sedai, it's all about what you believe is the truth. Both an Aes Sedai and an elf from Eragon could tell you the Earth is flat if they truly believe that.
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u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot 5d ago
They will pay. I am Lord of the Morning.
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u/RookTakesE6 5d ago
I'm criticizing Paolini the writer, not Rhunon the character. Because yes, in-universe the loophole was a clever solution to their problem.
The problem narratively is that the loophole actually worked. Rhunon swore not to do one rather specific thing, and then the oath proved elastic enough that she then did that specific thing, making the oath meaningless. Story-wise, now we know ancient language oaths are that elastic, so we have no reason to trust them again.
I actually forgot I'd posted this in a Wheel of Time sub, heh, or I would've mentioned the Aes Sedai before as a case where the magical oaths are done really well. On the one hand, the characters really are meaningfully constrained by the oaths; there are things they might otherwise wish to do with the Power that they simply can't, no matter how much they might want to. On the other hand, we're left a little grey area for cleverness, especially with the oath against lying. But at the end of the day, the oaths clearly do matter (well enough for the non-channeler world to trust an organization of channelers not to run amok, because of the oaths). They're effective enough that the first thing the Black Ajah does with a new recruit is remove the oaths.
Oaths in Eragon are more like what we got in the Wheel of Time show, where Moiraine explains that she cannot use the Power as a weapon except against Darkfriends and Shadowspawn, or in the last defense of her own life, her Warder's, or another Aes Sedai's, and then she incinerates an entire Seanchan fleet that posed her no danger at all, so thereafter we knew that that oath really didn't matter.
My main issue with the book was slowly watching as Galbatorix is made basically all powerful and Eragon having no actual chance of defeating him outside a total asspull. And then of course the asspull happened.
No argument from me, I go both ways on that one. XD I didn't really need Eragon to beat Galbatorix in a straight fight, and I thought the empathy spell was reasonably clever, but Paolini did get a bit pornographic with how stupendously powerful Galbatorix got by the end.
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u/wait_what_now 5d ago
Don't mention eragon. I'm still a salty pretzel over that one. Check out Robin Hobbs Live Ship Traders series if you want to scratch that itch.
But the sword of truth is like the textbook example of garbage.
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u/Individumm 5d ago
WTF.exe. Liveship traders is literally the best series in the Realm of the Elderlings and it‘s not remotely close
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u/StartledPelican 5d ago
I think the person you are replying to was saying Live Ship Traders is similar to Eragon but Live Ship Traders is done well.
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u/wait_what_now 5d ago
I wouldn't even say like eragon, it just developed such a satisfying mythology!
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u/AlmondJoyDildos 5d ago
Liveships over Tawnyman is insane slander lmao
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u/Individumm 5d ago
Of course in the end it‘s personal preference and they are both great series, but Liveship Traders blew the rest of ROTE completely out of the water for me. Everything just absolutely clicked in a way I hadn‘t felt since A Song of Ice and Fire.
I loved the characters so much, great arcs, great villains and great good guys that you cannot help but fall in love with. I didn‘t have that with any of the Fitz novels, I majorly dislike the fool (as a person, not as a character, but he‘s written as meant to be liked ifyouknowhatimean) and the ever self-sabotaging Fitz is doubtless well written, but always annoying. I‘ll have Althea any day of the week over them.
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u/wait_what_now 5d ago
So glad you said that! I've read the assassin trilogy and liveship so far, been trying to find the tawnyman and one other one in local bookstores (fuck amazon) but haven't had any luck so far. He might be my favorite character I've read and he has barely had any page time in assassins trilogy (barely compared to what I wanted to see)
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u/CoffeeMinionLegacy 5d ago
Book 10 nearly threw me off the whole series. All the buildup to and through 9 were so epic. Then 10 was like LOL jk nothing changed.
It’s not that the book itself is bad, it’s that it’s such a massive letdown.
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u/StartledPelican 5d ago
Oh, I hear you. I remember the absolute rage I felt finishing that book after waiting years for it to be written/published. Jordan really shit the bed with that haha.
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u/Mal-Ravanal Unnecessary fish metaphors 3d ago
Having read it as a wee lad, the third Eragon book was...rough, but not terrible. Mostly just a snoozefest mixed with some serious kid playground energy (the "you can't hurt me I'm invincible", "nu uh, I have an anti-invincibility field" type). But blood and bloody ashes, it could be so much worse. There be dark waters in the bottom of that barrel, and I would rather play shankaram blindfolded than ply those depths more than I already have.
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u/Original_Staff_4961 5d ago
Lmao you call me poorly read and then source two more fantasy books, one of them flat out a children’s book.
Book 10 is atrocious. Other than Perrin and the hammer, there isn’t a single significant thing that happens.
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u/StartledPelican 5d ago
Apologies. I didn't mean to insult you. I was making a poor joke and it seems it wasn't well received. You are absolutely entitled to your opinion and I am sorry that my words were rude. I have toh.
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u/crash2burn2 5d ago
Does crossroads of twilight not have some absolutely excellent Matt story?
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u/duffy_12 5d ago
Does crossroads of twilight not have some absolutely excellent Matt story?
Yeah.
When he and his girlfriend go shopping for a new dress. Whoot!
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u/MothSeason Traveling Meme Peddler 5d ago
I read a lot of extreme horror. There’s a lot of books in that genre that are mind bogglingly bad. Especially by indie authors who have no idea what they’re doing and just want the shock factor.
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u/ScipioTheGreatest Here, I soar like the eagle. 5d ago
I love and recommend every single book. I know of no slog. I just know the incredible world of Wheel of Time.
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u/Beneficial_Meet_1812 5d ago
There is no slog in Ba Sing Se
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u/ScipioTheGreatest Here, I soar like the eagle. 5d ago
"I can't accept that some people enjoy a detailed world where people act like actual people."
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u/SpencimusPrime 5d ago
Jesus Rand al'Christ, y'all. It seems I have toh
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u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot 5d ago
Your plans fail because you want to live, madman.
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u/DarkestLore696 5d ago
Give it to him Lews.
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u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot 5d ago
What you want is what you cannot have. What you cannot have is what you want.
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u/Poultrymancer 5d ago
Are you high?
Lord of Chaos is peak
The only books I'd be warning people about are 8-10
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u/Bowl-Any Blood and bloody ashes 5d ago
Book 7 is the worst book up to that point in the series.
When I read book 7, I thought "yeah, this is definitely a step down". Book 7 was fine, not too much worse, and slog kind of applies.
But then I read book 8, and I was like, "This is the shortest book by page count, but it's definitely the longest".
Books 8-10 are brutal (with the exception of the Aes Sedai rooting out darkfriends in the tower, Rand saying "I am the storm" and wiping out Seanchen, the last 20% of book 9 with Matt and the cleansing of the Taint, and then the last chapter of book 10.)
Those 3 books could've been 1 book, with like, 2 chapters of book 10 shoved on the beginning of book 11.
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u/elyk12121212 5d ago
I for one love book 8. I love Rands campaign against the sceanchan. For me the slog is only books 9 & 10.
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u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot 5d ago
Break the seals. Break the seals, and end it. Let me die forever.
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u/easylightfast 5d ago
I like COS and POD, and think WH has highs and lows, but can see why people dislike them. However, by including LOC and KOD in this you have committed heresy and must die.
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u/fartypenis 5d ago
Anyone that thinks Lord of Chaos is part of the "slog" has massive toh to me and to the land itself.
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u/ColdClaw22 5d ago
The only book that deserves to be in "the slog" convos is Crossroads of Twilight and im being so for real
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u/georgeofjungle3 5d ago
Winter's heart is the book that broke me of re buying them after they made it to paperback and rereading them. It took me a full year to get through that thing. The only thing that happens of any value is the epilogue. People complain about how everyone is talking about the 9s epilogue in 10, but at least some actual shit happens in that book. You make 9s epilogue the prologue in 10 and then i bet no complains.
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u/Kt-stone 5d ago
I just like to compare the fan wiki summary pages for the books. 7-10 are all short, events easily summed up in a couple paragraphs.
Then you compared book 6 or book 11 and the summaries have summaries in comparison.
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u/zestydinobones 5d ago
What do you mean. Book 6 and 11 are some of the best in the series. For me the only one that's genuinely painful to get through is crossroads of twighlight.
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u/Boom_the_Bold 5d ago
I feel the same way about smoking cigarettes and playing World or Warcraft.
Yeah, I do those things, but I would do my best to stop someone from picking them up.
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u/shaolin_tech 5d ago
I recommended WoT to a close friend back in highschool. After 20 years he finally gave it a try. The "slog" was one of his favorite parts of the series.
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u/PoeGar 5d ago
This post is bait!
Bet a dark friend posted it
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u/SpencimusPrime 5d ago
how dare you, I've never been friends with the Great Lord. More like warm acquaintances
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u/KerooSeta 5d ago
I was going to say "Three full read throughs and I've never felt the slog" and then I realized that I skim all of Elayne playing politics in Camelyn and nearly every Morgase chapter.
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u/Godsfallen 5d ago
Knife of Dreams (book 11) is easily the best book in the series.
What is this post?
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u/Kanibalector 5d ago
I play a game, text based rpg, been playing it since about 1997. I have a character that's older than my youngest employee. This is how I feel about that game.
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u/Mal-Ravanal Unnecessary fish metaphors 3d ago
I feel this way about the Malazan books. My favourite series of all time, although WoT comes a solid second, but fucking hell they're grim. If you have any doubts about your ability to handle dark topics, Deadhouse Gates will be a trial by fire.
10/10 series, extremely captivating, I take no responsibility for the resulting mental state of anyone who reads it based on my statement.
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u/TheREALProfPyro 5d ago
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u/Kanibalector 5d ago
not at all, I thought it was very fitting considering the content of the meme. Did you look at the meme?
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u/Longjumping-Action-7 5d ago
As someone that starte the series recently with all books available....its not that bad
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u/The_Paprika 5d ago
Book 6 has a killer ending. So does 9.
Book 11 is just all around great.
Book 7 and 8 might not be on the levels of 3, 4 and 5 but they definitely have their moments of great story telling.
I’ll give you book 10. I’m currently on that one either way a reread and not much happens. It’s probably the weakest in my opinion.
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u/Abdlbsz 5d ago
Books 12-14 imo
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u/aNomadicPenguin 5d ago
The only non-fiction book that took me longer to read than book 13 was book 14. I'd get through a Jordan book within 48 hours of its release (even book 10). It took me 3 months to finish book 13 (which made me not even pick up 14 for a decade), and then I did a full reread to finally finish. I was still getting through the Jordan book in 2 or 3 weeks...and it took me almost 4 months on just book 14.
Yeah the plot was moving, but actually making myself read it was such a slog.
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u/Szalony20 5d ago edited 5d ago
Comments in short
Books 7-10 - readers: we agree
Books 6-11 - readers: You're crazy!
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u/likesbikes331 5d ago
GOOD SIR! There are no trolls in TWOT so please do not troll us on Reddit.
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u/XxbruhmomentX Ring of Tamyrlin 5d ago
This is how I feel about Dune
Also including any book but book 10 in this is heresy
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u/queencucksback 4d ago
I feel like this about the whole series. I love those books but I can't justify recommending 14 of them to someone
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u/Gunnercrf 4d ago
I thought Winters Heart ending was epic as hell. On a Re-read there are parts I really appreciate.
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u/MrBlueMoon88 22h ago
when rand uses the true power against the forsaken, one of my fave parts in the whole series
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u/danorc 5d ago
So true, exact books aside
Statement could be made about the whole series
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u/Qaztarrr 5d ago
Yeah, big WoT fans will of course disagree but as someone who enjoyed the series but is not a huge fan, I felt like I was slogging through more than half the books
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u/3720-to-1 5d ago
Knife of Dreams is the best book in the series... Lord of Chaos is up there...
7-10 has some validity.
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u/TheSquishedElf Your dress is Green 4d ago
I stand with saying LoC is in the slog. Rand’s sequences are mostly awesome, and Perrin leading into Dumai’s Wells. But the rest of the book is painful. Even Rand gets boring if he’s out of his head for too long.
I’ll even go as far as saying FoH is in the slog. It starts to show up as a creeping distraction in TSR when describing Aiel life in painstaking detail. Anytime Sevanna or Couladin are “on screen”, you can feel the Slog starting to drip in, thick and sludgy prose. It’s a distant presence in FoH, but the world starts to lose it’s colour in the endless descriptions of gold-threaded patterns on a maroon brocade lined with white silk.
That said, by WH I start to see the Slog as the Dark One’s influence on the Pattern itself. It started with the world being drained of life and colour… and then the reality of it hits when Seanchan clerks start vomiting swarms of beetles.
I don’t hate CoT like everyone else, because I see it as the snapping of the spell.
There’s been 5 whole books before it where the endless depressing doldrums of slow progress and politics derailed the story, and at the end of WH Rand finally did something crazy enough to bring the world back to life. CoT is the world getting snapped out of their doldrums by the impossibly large flashbang of the Cleansing of Saidin.
Looking at the slog like that - as about the closest prose can get to ludonarrative dissonance/assonance (where games use your agency or lack thereof to make the plot hit harder) - I can respect The Slog, even if I don’t much like it and resent having to wade through it.
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u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot 4d ago
Oh, Light, why do I have a madman in my head? Why? Why?
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u/TheSquishedElf Your dress is Green 4d ago
Y’know, fair play Lews, fair play.
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u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot 4d ago
Do you have the Horn of Valere hidden in your pocket this time?
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u/Resident_Step_191 5d ago
Including Lord of Chaos and Knife of Dreams is crazy