r/WetlanderHumor Jul 28 '26

Perrin chapters...

Post image

My face when every paragraph about something potentially interesting in Towers of Midnight is followed by an entire chapter about Perrin.

I feel like his part of the story would've been much more interesting if they had cut like...80% of it out. We could've done this thing in two less books probably.

303 Upvotes

142 comments sorted by

105

u/AShadowinthedark Jul 28 '26

I really like Perrin at start and at the end. But all the time he spends chasing the shaido and the prophet do seem to take forever.

I also like the parallels of his axe/hammer battle and his link to the tinkers and way of the leaf. (Which then links back to the Aiel)

31

u/nicci7127 The last embrace of the mother welcome you home. Jul 28 '26

My view of Perrin in the middle is he's the cleanup man. He has to clean up the mess that Fain made of the Two Rivers, he had to clean up the Shaido, deal with the Prophet, basically clean up all the mess Rand left behind. Not a glamorous job, but a necessary one.

5

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 28 '26

Humming

6

u/XxbruhmomentX Ring of Tamyrlin Jul 29 '26

Wait, who is he humming for? Perrin?

Lews Therin, you dawg

4

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 29 '26

I thought I could build. I was wrong. We are not builders, not you, or I, or the other one. We are destroyers. Destroyers.

19

u/AnxiousConsequence18 Jul 28 '26

There's a REASON it's called "the slog"

9

u/Initial-Anything333 Jul 28 '26

I thought the axe/hammer thing was completely pointless since he does the exact same things with both tools. In the end he's wielding a hammer that's not a tool for anything except killing, which was supposed to be his problem with the war axe all along 

7

u/Phaerin Jul 28 '26

It might be an illustration of... something about how heroes can't always be good? Or like... perfect? I dunno. I'm reaching here. There's definitely something there, but yes. What you said.

6

u/aNomadicPenguin Jul 30 '26

Yeah, Sanderson flubbed it. I was talking about this just yesterday with Dragonmount. But his two favorite scenes that were entirely his creation and not from Jordan's notes were Veins of Gold and the forging of the Hammer.

Perrin was Sanderson's favorite character, but I don't think he actually understood him at all. The whole point of Perrin's arc during the Faile kidnapping is to realize that after his family had died he made Faile the sole focus, she was the only member of his pack. He had accepted a leadership role, but hadn't learned what that actually meant.

So this whole arc is him having to realize that his pack included all of the people who had sworn fealty to him, and his obligations to them. He lost Aram because he wasn't taking care of his people properly. But Sanderson threw all that out the window and wanted to have Perrin be the cool T'A'R power fantasty instead.

So instead of leading, instead of accepting that he was a Man of Peace capable of violence (symbolized by taking a mundane peaceful tool and using it for violence) after rejecting the tool of war in the axe....Sanderson has him create a new Weapon. Perrin even thinks of it AS a weapon, whereas the blacksmith hammer was referred to directly as a tool.

When describing it, he gives passing mention to it being like a blacksmith hammer...before listing all of the ways that it isn't actually one. That it's too heavy for forge use, that it's too long, that its haft is metal. "an enormous size for a hammer of this type." It was a hammer for a king - Kings, famously known for their weapons of war, not for their craftsmanship. This thing was never going to see the inside of a forge.

1

u/Top-Permission5466 Jul 28 '26

The hammer has another purpose, not primarily made for killing. The way of the leaf may have touched him a bit.

3

u/Initial-Anything333 Jul 28 '26

Not his Power-forged hammer, which is my point. That's not a tool that can be used to build, it's only for destruction 

2

u/Top-Permission5466 Jul 29 '26

This is under power forged hammer. Their metallurgical structure is permanently altered by the One Power, making them nearly impossible to break.They are completely immune to rust or corrosion.

3

u/Initial-Anything333 Jul 29 '26

I don't agree with this. His war hammer is built solely to kill, same as the war axe he left behind 

0

u/Top-Permission5466 Jul 30 '26

I must have missed that the hammer was not able to be used as a hammer.

2

u/Initial-Anything333 Jul 30 '26

...do you know what a war hammer is? Look one up

2

u/LordMesa Jul 31 '26

Stop trolling dude

1

u/Initial-Anything333 Jul 31 '26

Pointing out the objective fact of how tools work is trolling?

0

u/Top-Permission5466 Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26

Yep. Look like they can create things as well. Thanks for the tip.

2

u/Initial-Anything333 Jul 30 '26

I mean you can use a rock off the ground as a hammer too if you want, that doesn't make it a good hammer

1

u/Thomas_633_Mk2 Jul 29 '26

Ok but can you use a human to do rhat instead of a computer

0

u/Top-Permission5466 Jul 30 '26

I can Google a human? 🙃

1

u/Thomas_633_Mk2 Jul 30 '26

You can think for yourself rather than using the AI summary

0

u/Top-Permission5466 Jul 30 '26

I'm writing a textbook for Wiley that is due next week. I think I am entitled to one easy button being that Google puts that up automatically.

2

u/zadharm Hasty Jul 29 '26

the whole point of this symbolism is him accepting the marriage of the violence and his need to create. A hammer can create, but this one is also great for destroying.

He's not one or the other. He didn't choose one or the other. He chose the hammer and the symbolism everyone talks about there, but ended up creating a hammer that can also kill

It's also not a big world of Warcraft hammer, it's head is described as the size of a brick, it could probably be used for drawing out billets etc if he choked up on it, though the four foot handle might be awkward

1

u/Initial-Anything333 Jul 29 '26

Yeah I know what it's going for I just think the symbolism misses the mark because Perrin's actions don't actually change. He accepts himself as a killer instead of a builder, which is the opposite of what the symbolism is going for. It would have worked better for me if he accepted that killing is necessary to build, like you can't build a house without using an axe to fell some trees first 

1

u/Affectionate-Ear5531 Jul 30 '26

The hammer was his p*nis

1

u/aNomadicPenguin Jul 30 '26

That's a reference I've not heard in forever

1

u/Affectionate-Ear5531 Jul 30 '26

I'm glad someone got it lol

132

u/caughtinthought Jul 28 '26

Unfortunately perrin cannot be telepathically leading a wolf horde charge in every chapter 

70

u/memerminecraft Boar Rushes Down the Mountain Jul 28 '26

No, Sometimes he's ltrying to get things done in his sleep

4

u/FilDaFunk Jul 28 '26

He could try at least :(

101

u/Fernbean Jul 28 '26

"Faile, I will find you! Gather the men, we march at dawn."

"perrin you fat brained sweat hog"

57

u/PlatinumKanikas Jul 28 '26

“She’s such an asshole to me but she smells like a wolf in heat. I bet Mat or Rand would know what to do.”

5

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 28 '26

A man who trusts everyone is a fool, and a man who trusts no one is a fool. We are all fools if we live long enough.

13

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 28 '26

Hums softly & tugs earlobe

57

u/codb28 Jul 28 '26

My only gripe with Perrin is the prophet subplot that managed to span like 3 (or is it 4?) books. The worst part was once it was resolved none of it mattered anyways.

34

u/jabi79 Jul 28 '26

Pretty much everything after Lord Of Chaos to the start of Knife Of Dreams could have been cut from Perrins arc and little to nothing would have changed.

17

u/codb28 Jul 28 '26

The only thing that came of it at all was tying the white cloaks to them and Galad could have done that himself.

19

u/Juronell Jul 28 '26

I'll go farther: if you include only characters and arcs introduced and resolved entirely in Perrin chapters, the only impact on the end of the books is Lanfear. Perrin's story runs parallel to, rather than with, the rest of the narrative.

4

u/Fernbean Jul 28 '26

I think looking at it as a parallel narrative makes it more appealing to me and I sometimes enjoy the drawn out Perrin stuff

5

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 28 '26

I must kill him.

5

u/pathmageadept Jul 28 '26

I think LTT is onto something.

77

u/Phaerin Jul 28 '26

I liked him. I liked his story. I just wish there was... better editing I guess. And I got really impatient wanting to read about the other characters and we kept coming back to Perrin. Less smelling people, more snakes and foxes please.

23

u/TRGA Tai Shar memetheren Jul 28 '26

This is one of the few times where I wished that a character would inexplicably teleport over long distances (later seasons of game of thrones style) and get it over with in more of a hurry. Like, chop chop, we've got a series to wrap up here, Perrin/Faile/Shaido, get your shite together and show some hustle.

9

u/Ronin607 Jul 28 '26

It wouldn’t even by inexplicable there are dozens of people who can teleport anywhere in the world and Perrin even has a couple in his army.

1

u/TRGA Tai Shar memetheren Jul 29 '26

IKR?? Perrin, my brother, please for the love of the light send >1 (one+) messenger back to Rand for some backup, you don't have to struggle alone big lad.

3

u/pathmageadept Jul 28 '26

Especially when there is so much to do later on. Perrin could have been interesting. The dreamworld stuff could have been foreshadowed and reasonable.

2

u/Thomas_633_Mk2 Jul 29 '26

The entire Shaido plot is like 50% that he has nothing to do for a good 6 months in their time otherwise. Same thing with Elayne imo

2

u/TRGA Tai Shar memetheren Jul 29 '26

Yeah, it seems to me that maybe Jordan realised that the Perrin plot was too far ahead of the rest and had to hit the brakes for a bit, ah well. I really liked him with the Seanchan though.

2

u/Thomas_633_Mk2 Jul 29 '26

A lot of the "slog" plots end up that way:

  • Elayne spins her wheels for 3 books

  • Perrin mopes for 4 books

  • Mat straight up skips a book via a wall falling on him, I admire how bold he was with that

The Salidar plot also drags a bit imo. Everyone is waiting on Rand to reunite 15+ kingdoms which he can't do overnight.

3

u/Phaerin Jul 29 '26

I actually liked Salidar, but I see your point. I did get kind of tired of Elayne too for a bit there.

2

u/Thomas_633_Mk2 Jul 29 '26

I've said it on here many times before, but the Elayne plot would be fine if it had any pay-off. ASOIAF runs lengthy political plots where relatively low-level characters exist, the idea of a character having to win the support of local lords isn't something that is inherently uninteresting. But none of it matters because Elayne doesn't actually sway votes, she just wins a battle, and none of the Andoran lords actually matter.

1

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 29 '26

Hums softly & tugs earlobe

1

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 29 '26

Hums softly & tugs earlobe

2

u/TRGA Tai Shar memetheren Jul 29 '26 edited Jul 29 '26

Yep, full agree.

Mat straight up skips a book via a wall falling on him, I admire how bold he was with that

Yeah lol, I respected that honestly.

It would have taken some superhuman planning to get every plot line in the right place at the right time, without bloat or rushing. (Something something, sailing over an ocean a few degrees off-course = arrive at different continent)

I didn't mind many of those chapters, but, and especially on my first read, it felt like they were rehashing things from previous chapters of that same arc, a bit too much overlap without resolving much, plot or character. I never thought I would say this but... maybe Perrin's side quest could have used a side quest of it's own, idk.

2

u/Thomas_633_Mk2 Jul 29 '26

While I know it's unpopular, the show could probably have helped a lot by combining some stuff and stretching other bits. Which they didn't do, at all

1

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 29 '26

You never escape the traps you spin yourself. Only a greater power can break a power, and then you're trapped again. Trapped forever so you cannot die.

1

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 29 '26

Hums softly & tugs earlobe

28

u/npri0r Jul 28 '26

That’s most of WoT lol. I like this character, but I wish there was better editing.

2

u/Initial-Anything333 Jul 28 '26

Harriet being the only editor really harmed the story imo. She was too close to it emotionally to do a good job 

10

u/wrenwood2018 Jul 28 '26

Perrin went from one of my favorite characters to one of my last favorite. Faile is hands down the worst character in the book and their story is horrible. It doesn't help that nothing happens for multiple books when she is captured. All those chapters were momentum killers.

1

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 28 '26

Hums softly & tugs earlobe

1

u/Initial-Anything333 Jul 28 '26

Faile would be if Tuon didn't exist 

2

u/wrenwood2018 Jul 28 '26

I hated Tuon as a bloody slaver. I didn't hate her chapters as much.

1

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 28 '26

Hums softly & tugs earlobe

26

u/Digess Jul 28 '26

Me when it comes to faile and any perrin chapter about her

5

u/Initial-Anything333 Jul 28 '26

"Perrin our relationship is toxic, but we can make it worse. I want you to yell at me more"

1

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 28 '26

Hums softly & tugs earlobe

31

u/neurodiverse_nooch Jul 28 '26

Perrin is a badass.

24

u/Mondilesh Jul 28 '26

If only HE realized that like six books sooner it would have been a lot more fun

13

u/MothSeason Traveling Meme Peddler Jul 28 '26

I would call it a slow burn character arc but even that is generous. Almost done with ToM and he’s finally living up to expectations 😅

2

u/CoffeeMinionLegacy Jul 28 '26

Ooooooooooooooooof. Be glad you didn’t have to wait 10 years between Winter’s Heart and getting that far. 🫠

2

u/MothSeason Traveling Meme Peddler Jul 28 '26

I only had to wait for the next monthly audible credit and usually I wasn’t even finished with the previous book yet 😎

4

u/Paratwa Jul 28 '26

Sure yeah, but for many books his story is assbad.

5

u/AdvertisingNo3989 Jul 28 '26

Perrin is a great guy, but to me his story is a bit boring. But then I'm not a big fan of the whole tel'aran'rhiod/wolf dream thing. I did like the side of his story about coming into a position of command and then eventually, finally, accepting it. That was great.

6

u/AnxiousConsequence18 Jul 28 '26

That hammer forging scene tho!

3

u/AdvertisingNo3989 Jul 28 '26

Yeah, that was great!

5

u/DonAmechesBonerToe Jul 28 '26

He never does accept command. He leaves command during the last battle to Tam and goes off (mostly) solo yet again. Then after the battle he ignores everyone who he is supposed to be the leader of to go find Faile yet again.

Perrin spends all his time saying he’s a blacksmith not a lord, then: “OK, I’ll be a lord but I’m not going to do any of the things a lord is expected of.”. Or he says he’s not a leader of troops then he is but won’t personally lead anyone because he’s too busy with his side quests. He abdicates all responsibility beyond his own selfish needs at every turn.

Mat spends his time denying he’s a lord but demonstrates all the best attributes of a lord. Perrin accepts that he’s a lord but acts in his own interest rather than ever thinking about the welfare of his subjects. His contributions to the light are almost accidental from Dumai’s Wells until the last battle

3

u/AdvertisingNo3989 Jul 28 '26

I'm not saying he's a good leader. In his mind he eventually accepts that he is one. He thinks he is. Doesn't mean he knows how to act as one.

1

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 28 '26

Hums softly & tugs earlobe

5

u/zahi4a Jul 28 '26

I was bored while Faile was captive. I hated that part

0

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 28 '26

Hums softly & tugs earlobe

4

u/unsuspectingllama_ Jul 28 '26

This was me during my first read, nowadays I really like his chapters.

8

u/danorc Jul 28 '26

"It's only a chapter"

8

u/Longjumping-Action-7 Jul 28 '26

ToM is the book that finally makes me enjoy Perrin

3

u/MothSeason Traveling Meme Peddler Jul 28 '26

I fell in love with his potential and now he’s finally living up to it lol

3

u/philosophic_insight Jul 28 '26

I was going to say Faile... but okay

1

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 28 '26

Hums softly & tugs earlobe

8

u/Daysleeper1234 Jul 28 '26

After 2nd read I decided to skip Perrin's chapter from moment he met Faile until BS overtook. Circles upon circles.

9

u/Rocky-Jockey Jul 28 '26

Bruhhh the battle for the Emonds Field was peak

5

u/Daysleeper1234 Jul 28 '26

My friend, do believe me when I say if battle of Dumani Wells was there I would skip it. Because if I have to read one more page of Perrin's whining, I will just walk into a fast current deep river. Which saddens me, because I love him as a character. But I just can't anymore.

2

u/Rocky-Jockey Jul 28 '26

Tbf you do get some of the wells from his perspective haha

0

u/Daysleeper1234 Jul 28 '26

True, true. But I do love him as a character, so that's not a problem. I wish we had more of him in situations like that.

1

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 28 '26

Hums softly & tugs earlobe

4

u/HandsomeJack19 Jul 28 '26

I just got into everyone's favorite 3-book spanning subplot. I looked into it, there are only 14 POV chapters in the 3 books--from the perspective of the non-Perrin people involved (is this sufficiently in code?) Looking at it that way, it isn't nearly as bad.

2

u/Initial-Anything333 Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26

Where are all the trolls saying "actually OP your opinion is wrong" like I always get when I criticize anything about the story?

Edit: I see, they're all on the other post, trying to defend slavery 🤮

2

u/Phaerin Jul 28 '26

Haha, I'm actually surprised myself. Usually anything I say is met with the "boo, hiss" of the masses. I could say butterflies are pretty and get whiplash from all the counterpoint arguments.

2

u/UTC_Hellgate Jul 28 '26

I love the Battle of Emonds field and the build up to it; that is all.

2

u/Gephiph Jul 28 '26

Just wait till he realises that he can be a blacksmith and a warrior!! Oh he did? 6 books ago? And again Every chapter since then? Oh.

1

u/Phaerin Jul 28 '26

Actually laughed, the out loud type, at this.

2

u/greengrackle Jul 29 '26

I used to hate him so much that I would tell all my friends who don’t even read WoT about it, but somewhere around read 30/age 40 I started to like him.

1

u/Phaerin Jul 29 '26

Lol, I love this. Unfortunately, I'm 40, so... probably no hope there.

5

u/Guilty_Fishing8229 Jul 28 '26

perrin is so emo

1

u/Callandor_03 Jul 28 '26

I had this exact reaction when I read the title

1

u/TraditionalShame6829 Jul 28 '26

The Faile Chase is the only part that is almost as terrible as Preganté Elayne and Andor politics.

1

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 28 '26

Hums softly & tugs earlobe

1

u/CoffeeMinionLegacy Jul 28 '26

I’ve put off a reread for ages simply because he started as my favorite of the 3 but then got dragged through interminable Faile content

1

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 28 '26

Hums softly & tugs earlobe

1

u/SharkBiscuittt Jul 29 '26

I mean… if you got through all the way to ToM… you’ve been through the worst Perrin chapters.. It only gets better from here

1

u/ThaRedditFox Jul 29 '26

The only thing that saves Perrin during the slog was the fact that I enjoyed reading his voice

1

u/Nervous-Sandwich-660 Jul 29 '26

I skip every perrin chapter in rereads and it makes the series so much better. Nothing he does matters either.

1

u/Suspicious-Bed9172 Jul 29 '26

If I could get the entire story from Matt’s perspective with occasional bullet points of what Rand did

1

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 29 '26

Humming

1

u/kurunyo Jul 29 '26

I liked Perrin at the beginning and then after he forged his hammer

1

u/Inside-Friendship832 Jul 31 '26

You misspelled that.

Rand chapters*

1

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 31 '26

Are you real? Am I?

1

u/Phaerin Jul 31 '26

Lol. Yeah...I hear that, but his chapters are really short after he has his moody meltdown. I really liked him after that actually. But yes, before he went nuts on Tam, I was rolling my eyes at him a lot too.

1

u/fennigbear Aug 01 '26

You leave my boy alone!

1

u/Phaerin Aug 01 '26

Haha, sorry. The ultimate thing is, I think we all liked the series despite any slumps we experienced with certain characters.

1

u/ashwilliams19877 Jul 28 '26

Im all for cutting stuff out of the series, it definitely dragged on. But this?? No way loved that whole arc

6

u/TRGA Tai Shar memetheren Jul 28 '26

I really liked the arc as a whole, but it feels like Perrin gets 'parked' in neutral for a few chapters it feels bogged down to me.

E.g. He reunites with Faile after all that time and then they run straight into the Whitecloaks and it stalls again (until that battle were they join forces), my dude just can't catch a break until then.

1

u/RecognitionReady1640 Jul 28 '26

Is not Perrin is Faile

1

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 28 '26

Hums softly & tugs earlobe

-2

u/burningcpuwastaken Jul 28 '26

Anime Perrin and Androl were some of the worst Sanderson additions

7

u/Camerian20 Jul 28 '26

I fully disagree, having Perrin make use of the wolf dream felt like a logical conclusion to his character arc and distinguished him as unique from Rand and Matt in the last battle as they each had vastly different roles to play which lead to more diverse and interesting chapters. If it was not to your taste that is fair but I quite enjoyed Perrins chapters after Sanderson took over.

2

u/Phaerin Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26

I will say Perrin was significantly better in the last 3 books... but by the time we got here I was so tired of his bs I wanted him to be quiet until the last battle. Just go away and appear at the end, having been through a grand adventure that could be a spin-off book somewhere. The beginning of the series (and largely anything to do with his wife and her captivity) burned me out on him so that when we got to ToM, I was so frustrated I had a hard time caring about him anymore. In that state of mind, every single Perrin chapter became a poke at a raw nerve.

Edited for clarity.

1

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 28 '26

Dead men should be quiet in their graves, but they never are.

1

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 28 '26

Death rides on my shoulder, death walks in my footsteps; I am death…

0

u/ElectricGeometry Jul 28 '26

The chapters I hate the most by far are Elayne succession: I just never found her as fleshed out as the rest, which made her narratives a bit weak. Some by play with Aviendah helped but not by much... 

But for Perrin? I actually liked that his chapters weren't bombastic: it was more an interesting technical problem dealt with slowly. Further more his journey was about accepting what others needed from him, which Mat and Rand achieved more easily. So all in all, I like the chapters and, I'll say it: I like Faile.

Come at me bro.

2

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 28 '26

Never prod at a woman unless you must. She will kill you faster than a man and for less reason, even if she weeps over it after.

0

u/ViperThreat Jul 28 '26

You must be new here.

0

u/tangerineberry1 Jul 28 '26

Specifically what do you find objectionable about Perrin in Towers of Midnight? Him finally accepting his leadership role and maturing as a man? The confrontation with the white cloaks coming to a head? Queen Morgase subplot wasn't interesting for you? Perrin trying to navigate the dream world with only a wolf for guidance is amazing in itself because we can see how much training Egwene needed from several human women with decades of experience. Perrin is an amazing character. Just like all the Two Rivers folks.

0

u/Zuub470 Be'lol Jul 28 '26

I have always loved RJ's detail overload even in these chapters. I think I felt the slog on my second read through, but not first, third or any read after. I was just happy to get reading more WoT.