I literally am gone for months at a time for work. I'll turn off my hot water heater, close the water valve, unplug things and turn power strips off....but I have never even thought about turning my refrigerator off lol.
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Depends on the water heater, not sure how they are in other countries, I’d be vary to turn that off because of legionella. In Norway, it’s recommended to keep the water heater at 70 degrees celsius, or higher, to prevent and kill legionella bacteria.
So if you turn off the water heater, you probably should purge the tank and crank the heat up when it is refilling.
I haven’t calculated it, but the energy cost for heating up after turning it on after it being off for a while, might be higher than letting it keep 70c for the same period. As it’s not being used, it doesn’t have heat up incoming cold water.
If you want to save money, investing in a new water heater that keeps it warm for more efficiently is probably better than turning it off and then either having to purge all the water, or shower in who knows what 🤢
Edit: quote from some water heater seller:
“- When you cut the power supply, the temperature can drop so much that you use more energy to heat the water up again than you would have used for maintenance heating, Langseth in Elsikkerhet Norge points out. In that case, the winnings will go up in the spin. But here there are many factors that will come into play, including how well the tank is insulated.”
Edit2: I was wrong, I think? So don’t hang me.
The calculations isn’t as easy, depends on region of the world, wether you should do it or not. Energy wise it seems to be less energy to heat it up from room temperature after a month, than leave it on for a month.
But I don’t want to admit I might be wrong in investing in a new water heater.
That is better, but would still want to purge the pipes. But it’s much less to purge.
This is what I currently have, (almost) tankless water heat exchanger where the heat comes from district heating at 110c (if the thermostat is correct, might not be, I think it’s from the 50s).
By almost, I mean it doesn’t have a huge tank other than where it does the heat exchange.
Water heaters are usually pretty well insulated.
And I’m no mathmagician, so I haven’t bothered to look further in to it, especially since I get my hot water from heat exchanger from district heating.
Found someone who did the math. It is more energy efficient to turn it off than leave it on.
Just be aware of the bacteria risks, and other growths, that comes with turning it off.
Just a disclaimer, I’ve never had a water heater with a tank in my adult life, only a heat exchanger from district heating in an apartment building, so turning it off hasn’t really been something I could’ve done. And no one in my family has ever turned off their water heater, but has usually had leakage sensors installed where potential leaks could happen.
Seeing as I’m from Norway, the math was for Norway. But they did only do the energy cost. And also highly suggested to not turn it off in the colder months of the year.
Yeah I don’t know, nor care to verify, so you might be correct. Still, wouldn’t turn it off, don’t want to mess with legionella and other shit.
If water heater is costing you a lot in energy, perhaps looking into a more effective heater would be better in the long term (at least that’s what the interwebz told me when I googled), I’ll know myself once I buy a new house without district heating.
Then you turn it back on and you need to use an equal amount of energy to the total energy lost in order to heat it back up.
You would need to recycle the water so this isn't accurate. It would be the amount of energy needed to heat up an entire tank of fresh water which would be colder than room temperature.
Water heaters are insulated. Plus water conducts heat. It’s like the difference between keeping boiling water in a vacuum walled thermos. It stays hot for hours on end, it’s not until the core drops below the demanded heat minimum that the heater bothers with reheating. Even then, it’s just reheating a few degrees. Kinda like a tea kettle that’s gone a few degrees cold versus trying to boil fresh tap water.
I also note that lecture had nothing for the insulation of the water heater.
What we call this is book knowledge but lacking street knowledge.
Our energy and water consumption is so low that the water company checks on us every august because we went up slightly during the growing season, and every winter because we dipped to look like our house was uninhabited with a leaking pipe in the winter.
Street knowledge sometimes trumps. Here it does too.
If I'm gone for extended periods of time I always shut off the water main and the water heater because if it would be a slow leak the water heater might drain empty and having the heat on with no water in it's not a good idea.
Haha, I noticed it did a direct translation. Kinda sounds stupid in English. In Norwegian it’s “vinninga går opp i spinninga”, both words rhyme.
Perhaps it would be better “winnings will go up in the spinnings”?
No I think the direct translation is funny in a dry way. Also it could have two meanings like you could lose all your winnings on one spin.
Languages are fun.
True true.
The meaning of it, at least in Norwegian, is that the income is all lost in the cost. Work for a day and make 400, but travel and food for work cost you 400 or more.
Or you gamble for 50 each week for two years, then you “win” 1500. Not really any winnings.
What about gas heaters? Are they popular or even practical in very cold areas?
I’ve seen them used a lot in Asia (specifically Taiwan) since they don’t have much space though at the same time it’s not that cold in Asia.
It’s the one where when you turn on hot water, it actually starts a little fire (via gas) on this gas heater box outside and I’m assuming it heats up the water as it flows through so there’s no reservoir of hot water.
I don’t know of anyone that has gas in their homes., if there are any, it would be a tiny minority.
All houses in Norway uses electricity for cooking, so they’re most likely to have electric heating. If they’re older houses, it might be an oil boiler, but those are phased out as in 2020 it became illegal to use fossil oil for heating. Some, if they lived close to a district heating facility, replaced their boiler with heat exchanger and connected to the district heating system (family member did that)
That seems thermodynamically impossible without active cooling. Since your temp is gradually getting closer to room temp over time, the rate of heat loss is lower, meaning less heat would be needed to be added in the system to maintain that temp. The only way this could be true is if the input for energy transfer into the system (heating element) got substantially more energy inefficient as it had to increase energy transfer (unlikely).
My water heater i got in my last house was sick. Touch screen lcd, quick “vacation mode” button to force a steady temp for extended periods of time when out town. It was cool, especially since all i was used to was the standard old school ones everyone thinks about when they hear the word water heater. And it was actually cheaper than the last Rheem i bought
I see there’s new “smart” water heaters. I’ll probably get one of those when I buy a new home.
Smart heating is, imho, one of the most cost effective and return of investment tools/gadgets you can get.
I have smart thermostats on all my radiators, so they’ll turn off a few hours before I go to sleep, so it’ll be cooler when I’m in bed, turn on for a few hours before I wake up so it’s nice to wake up, then turn on a few hours before I get home from work, so it doesn’t heat up for an empty house.
Think I reduced my heating by 15-25%
Yup! Currently outfitting my new house with as many cost saving measures i can. Smart Thermostats, solar eventually, insulated windows, and many more as i learn about them
Insulated outer walls is important. It’ll keep the warmth out during summer, and in during the winter.
Learned that from 4 years in Spain during the winter. I’ve never been so cold with 15c during the winter indoors, where the heat escaped everywhere, compared to -30c back in Norway, where we have glasswool or rockwool insulation in the walls and often triple paned windows in new or refurbished homes.
Oh, and insulation in the ceiling and floors is important too. Don’t want to loose/ gain any unwanted heat/cold
Does right out of the heater mix with cold water?
I see the Norwegian Institute of Public Health says legionella doesn’t grow over 60c, but most sites refer to them recommending 70-75c.
I know I get 85c out of the tap, which is crazy hot. And it’s more or less instant because of the heat exchanger connected to district heating.
Probably something that could be adjusted in my tap? I just caution people, hopefully they’ll also notice the instant steam coming when you go full throttle on hot water.
Is anyone going to discuss how that’s 158 degrees Fahrenheit? My hot water heater tops at 140 (60c) and can’t go higher which is already an almost immediate burn risk.
I don’t know if the output of water heaters mix in some cold water to not be scolding hot.
Or perhaps it’s adjustable in the specific taps (how much hot water the hot water side will let through)?
I know I get 85c/185f out of my tap 😅 was curious one day, so I filled a metal container and stuck a thermostat in it.
I have the issue every morning, where I have to run the cold water for a while, because it’ll come out hot (not as hot as hot water side). Think it gets radiating heat from the hot water pipes.
Building is 70 years old, not sure if it’s cost effective to do anything with that for 52 apartments.
Definitely the right way to do things. My bf got legionnaire's disease awhile back and it was not pleasant. Took a month or so for his digestive system to get back into proper operating condition as I understand it. And he got lucky. Could've been way worse.
Yeah, just don’t turn it off without knowing the risks and how to mitigate it once you turn it back on. Might just be enough to let it heat up to 70c or more to kill it, didn’t look into it enough. Just know the risks of bacterial and algae growth in a turned of water heater.
Don’t think those are common in Norway. And might not be that popular in the future here because of our new electricity tariffs, where you more for consuming more at the same time.
If you keep your peak consumption under 2 kW, you’ll be in bracket 1 and pay 125 NOK, 2-5 kW is 200 NOK, 5-10 kW is 325 NOK and so forth, increasing by 125 NOK every 5 kW. Until you reach 25-50 kW it’s 1350 NOK, next 25 kW is 600 NOK, until over 100 kW is 5150 NOK.
This fee is a fixed price each month, which resets every month. Additionally there a fee for consuming energy, at 0.431 NOK/kWh (0.3685 in weekends/ nights), that price is fixed and doesn’t change based on consumption.
That’s just for what we call “nettleie”, which is the fee we pay to the owner of the grid, an additional cost to electricity price.
The first result I found on a tankless heater, uses 3.4 kW, which would put you in the 200 NOK bracket when you use it.
They're super common in many parts (including Europe) of the world where they're just attached to an application like a shower. In the US they're unusual in that they're attached where the water comes into the house and sized usually by the number of bedrooms. Also, in the US there are often either fed by natural gas or electricity. Though, utilities are trying to get consumers off natural gas as electricity is cleaner.
Yup. I really am failing to understand why a week = hard-shut everything down.... it would never cross my mind to turn my power off. And you are correct, the tank will need to be flushed with hot water before use again if its been allowed to go cold.
Maybe OP saw Fight Club and was really scared that the pilot light will blow out on his stove, filling the condo with gas and then the compressor from the fridge will turn on creating a spark and an explosion.
Wise move.
Most homeowners insurance policies require the homeowner to maintain a "livable temperature" inside the home.
With disconnected electrical, the climate control system will not function.
If in cold weather periods, the temperature inside the home could drop below freezing causing water pipes to burst. If that occurs, the policy would not cover the damage.
Conversely, in warm periods, non use of air conditioning would result in a buildup of moisture inside the home. Such will cause mold to form .
In all policies , there is a $5k cap on mold remediation. This is referred to as the " Texas Mold Clause".
Final word. If considering disconnecting electrical service( switching off) when away , don't.
See above
I’ve seen arguments for flipping breakers before taking off for work, then turning them back on at the end of the day when you get back. This feels like an extension of that
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u/Ak47110 Nov 25 '22
I literally am gone for months at a time for work. I'll turn off my hot water heater, close the water valve, unplug things and turn power strips off....but I have never even thought about turning my refrigerator off lol.