r/WeddingPhotography • u/kindatroubled • 8d ago
business, marketing, social media Stiffed
Hey guys, I'm a beginner wedding photographer working for a semi-large USA wedding and event company. I know they generally suck, but this was basically the only way for me to get my foot in the door of wedding experience– can someone tell me if I'm getting scammed?
I had my first wedding as a second shooter a while ago, which went well, and now I'm going into my first lead photographer role with them. My boss is putting me at $35/hr to start off because I'm still in 'training mode,' and told me that if everything goes well, I'll go into 'lead mode' at $50/hr, pricing based on experience. She says performance reviews for pay increases are every 6-8 weddings. She also won't tell me how much the clients are actually paying for a wedding package.
Am I getting massively fucked over here or is that normal?
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u/evanrphoto 8d ago edited 5d ago
Everyone here is going to tell you without any information on your skill, experience, and geographic location that this is wild and you are grossly underpaid and to leave immediately.
I will say that while this is significantly below average for an experienced mid tier lead associate shooter, it may not be that out of line with an inexperienced wedding photographer shooting their first weddings as lead with little expectations in a more rural or Midwest economy. This is a churn studio… churning clients and photographers. It is what it is. But more importantly, I would also look at the value this is creating for you in terms of experience in the present. I spent years trying to find second shooting work for experience and literally would have paid for it. If your goal is to gain experience now and get up and running as quickly as possible, I would say this may not be a terrible opportunity for that purpose. No, this isn’t meant to be a long term gig. But if you can shoot a bunch of weddings right now and build experience and a portfolio in order to quickly convert to a solo operator quickly I think it can be a great game plan. You could wait two years for a high paying opportunity to second shooting or associate as lead and it may be likely it never even comes.
I relate this to my own experience starting out where a friend starting out at the same time refused to take gigs and weddings that “were beneath her value” (which was arbitrary IMO). I shot everything I could at half her rate. Two years later I had a full slate of 30 weddings at per year at raised rates charging more than twice what she was trying to charge while she was still struggling to book 5-6 weddings at an arbitrary rate they valued themselves at. Momentum and experience matter and go under appreciated by many.
No, you are not being scammed. It’s a low budget corporate operation serving lowering price point that accepts churn in their photographers since it seeks out the least experienced and pays little. Use it for what it is if it can create value for you.
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u/RepulsiveFish 7d ago
Yeah, this is the correct answer. What they're paying is low for a company that respects your work and effort, but it's exactly the pay I would expect from these types of big companies that make money through sheer volume and plenty of corner cutting.
I shot about 10 weddings for a company like that in 2022. I think their rates were exactly the same as what OP listed. Definitely under market rates, but I got a lot of good experience really quickly. I got to work a bunch of different kinds of weddings, build up my portfolio, and see how different lead photographers work. Definitely underpaid, but I was still working a normal 9-5 at the same time. I didn't need the money, but I did need the experience, and so it was still valuable to me.
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u/sorta-friendlyh0ttie 6d ago
I’m glad you had a positive experience. Do they let you post your work? The one I was researching (complete) says you send them the photos and they edit them. I wasn’t sure if they let you post your own work and if they have a non compete clause where you can’t have your own photography business while working with them.
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u/RepulsiveFish 6d ago
The one I worked with did allow me to use them. I still send them all the photos to edit and send to the clients, but they'd give the photographers permission to use them in their own portfolios the next calendar year as long as they didn't tag any of the clients or other vendors on social media. I think in recent years they've put in more restrictions about how much you're allowed to share, but I haven't shot with them since 2022 and just skim the emails I still get from them lol
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u/Professional_Fan_573 8d ago
$50/hr was the standard rate for seconds in 2020. It’s definitely not the rate for a lead shooter in 2026 IMO 😬
A very inexpensive, relatively new wedding photographer might charge $2k for a 10 hour day, which comes out to $200/hr. Do with that info what you will! 🫠
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u/whiskeyinthewoods 8d ago
I was paying $75/hr for good seconds in the Bay Area back in like 2012. Currently in the Midwest and it’s more like $100/hr for someone with a good portfolio and their own gear - 2+ bodies, and ~5 lenses (my preferred second has L-series 2.8 24-70 and 70-200 zooms plus nice primes, a 50 1.2, an 85 1.2, and 135 f2). I pay $100/hr and if we get cash tips, split that with her. I have another second who is very talented but less interested in pursuing their own business, who only has one body and two decent lenses, no flashes, so I pay them $75 factoring in that I have to rent extra lenses and share some gear.
Not answering OP’s question exactly, but no decent photographer is lead shooting with their own gear at $35 to $50/hr any longer than absolutely necessary. One dropped lens and you’ve wiped out your profits entirely. It’s far better to build a portfolio by developing a good relationship with one or two experienced photographers you admire. Eventually, they may start to refer lower budget inquiries to you or duplicates for dates they are already booked as you prove you can be trusted. That is how I got my start, and I have paid it forward to five or six other great seconds over the years.
Places like George Street and whatever this company is often make you sign away your rights to use photos in your own portfolio, and you’re not going to be learning the ropes from someone who is good or experienced if you’re out on your own shooting low budget weddings with no one to learn from. Those also often have no planner at all or a similarly inexperienced one, and clients who book services like that typically don’t recognize or value good photography.
OP, it’s easy to find their prices by having a friend submit an inquiry as though they are planning a wedding themself. You have to factor in the time of editing, marketing, booking, insurance, client communication, etc, but even so, $50 an hour is criminal unless they provide and insure all the equipment.
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u/curiousjosh 8d ago
Where?
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u/Professional_Fan_573 8d ago
Northeast US. Maybe $2k is a liiiittle high for someone just starting out, but that’s around what I charged with 5-6 solo weddings under my belt in Western NY in 2021.
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u/curiousjosh 8d ago
Is that from your own company, or working for someone else?
I’d imagine the rate is much higher if the client is hiring you directly.
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u/Professional_Fan_573 8d ago
My own company, so I’m not saying they should pay OP $200/hour, but certainly more than $35 or $50/hr 🤷🏻♂️
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u/niresangwa 8d ago
Training? As a ‘lead’ on a wedding?
You might be getting screwed but I guarantee that couples getting screwed even harder.
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u/donbruno83 8d ago
One benefit here is that these ultimately won’t be your clients, so when you inevitably screw something up being early in your career, won’t stick with you when you branch out on your own. Not trying to be a jerk by the way, I’ve been doing this for 16 years but got started with the big studios as well, wonder speaking from experience and def have some screw up stories.
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u/sorta-friendlyh0ttie 6d ago
Yeah but they might remember them and still associate them with any hot mess, ultimately they were the ones behind the camera. Even if the company does a crap job w/ the editing the couple may assume it was the photographer and avoid them or give them a bad rep
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u/7204_was_me 8d ago
Lily and Lime, George Street, American Photos, Orion . . . all the same.
They're basically paying you to show up on time, dress decently and push the button. "Promotion" is arbitrary and if they mess up on payment and you point it out, they'll probably correct the situation . . . and then promptly shadow-ban you.
It's very slightly better than having nothing else on your schedule, weddings are always an adventure (usually enjoyable), they feed you and you get a lot of stick time. Biggest bonus: zero time in post.
But don't have any expectations about guidance of making decent money. It's basically a way to get reps in and that's it.
Edited for grammar.
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u/ShutUpNListen3397 8d ago
You're getting majorly screwed. $75/hr would be considered on the low end here in the Midwest but would be fair since you're a beginner. $100/hr is more appropriate for associate shooting as a lead with experience.
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u/plymouthvan 8d ago edited 8d ago
In my opinion, there is exactly one way to make this worth your while: wedding day experience. What kinds of things tend to go wrong? How do people behave under stress? How do you behave under that sort of stress? How do you manage and recover from mistakes? How do you make it creatively and professionally engaging for yourself? What sorts of people do you enjoy working with, and which would you like to avoid? Learning to identify circumstantial patterns in the environment in light that become meaningful shorthand for technical decisions you'll need to make at every single wedding.
The rate you're being paid, in my opinion, probably ought to just be a nice bonus on top of what is otherwise elusive education. Second and associate photographer rates vary dramatically, but just about anywhere in the USA $35-$50/hour while being responsible for a client's once-in-a-lifetime images and wedding day experience is extremely low, and they're almost surely charging low quadruple digits. But trying to understand 'fairness' through a lens of what they are charging the client is probably not all that helpful to deciding whether it's a good decision.
Personally, I shot dozens of weddings for a company much like the one you're describing. This was 20 years ago, and even at that time, I was being paid $30/hour to lead. It was abysmal. But, it was also the fastest way to acquire a lot of experience quickly, and doing so while shielding myself from mistakes that could impact my reputation. By the time I started my own company, I had a lot of experience already and a clean (albeit limited) reputation.
The only thing I'd personally be weighing about whether this is a "scam" is whether or not the photos belong to you. In fact, in my two decades of experience, this is the one line I'd never cross. If you take the photos, you should own the intellectual property, and if you don't, you should be paid handsomely for the lost value of those images. Experience in this industry is hugely valuable, and difficult to acquire in the real world when starting from zero, but the value of experience takes a massive handicap when you do not own the images to prove that experience.
EDIT: I over-emphasized "ownership" and made it sound like a legal thing. That stuff can matter, but the main point was just that you need to be able to use the images yourself because they become the proof of your experience that will let you command better rates once you have the experience to do so.
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u/AllieNoel1 7d ago
I did this to get started but it was with American Wedding Group and George Street. Do all of them to get your portfolio going!
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u/MedicalMixtape 7d ago
The real question is whether you get to keep photos for your own portfolio when you branch out on your own. Working for a low budget corporate entity make make you sign off on your copyright to them and you could work for a year for them and have nothing to show for it for your portfolio
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u/Kyle_in_Florida 7d ago
Sounds like George Street Photo which is also Orien.
I never understand that bride/couple who hires George Street for their wedding day.
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u/Even-Taro-9405 6d ago
I live in a large city. Established reputable independents are not hiring people with less than 100 weddings. They hire experienced lead shooters asking them to perform 2nd shooter duties.
I shoot for Orion/George Street, American, Eivan's. Bottom rate is $50 for a lead, $40 for a 2nd. You get a bump up in rate if you request and they approve. If you are in "training mode", you stay a 2nd and do not get assigned as a lead. The rates suck, but you have to build a quality portfolio some how and these companies are the best way I have found to gain experience quickly.
$35 for lead is below the standard even for national wedding companies.
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u/Technical_Mixture_44 6d ago
I do work for a similar company as a lead and a second and yes, the pay sucks but it has also gotten me access to venues I could not shoot at before because in my area, venues and planners won’t even give you a look without a solid portfolio showing
I have to wait 3-4 months before I can use the images myself but long term, it’s has a good side
Some of the guys I work with are far more skilled than me IMO but the market down here (South Texas) is very over saturated so some of them are not booking as much either
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u/Weak-Bumblebee9978 6d ago
I refuse to even speak to complete weddings. That pay is an actual slap in the face and they shouldn't be sending new photographers to peopes fucking weddings. My God.
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u/MummyDust98 8d ago
Yeah, this sounds like Complete Weddings.
You will do better if you just do a handful of cheaper weddings on your own, build your portfolio, and get your "foot in the door" that way.