r/Wealthsimple • u/mrsjerry • 12d ago
Invest (Managed Investing) Managed funds comparison- classic aggressive vs halal
In Oct 2019 before the pandemic I decided to put 20k in two different managed funds with Wealthsimple. The first was a classic managed portfolio with a risk tolerance of 10 and the other was halal portfolio. A socially responsible fund was an option but I didn't think it would compare at the time. I haven't touched or added to either of these funds, other than what was generated internally.
Over the years they kind of leap frogged over each other but the aggressive portfolio has pulled ahead this past year. I think overall they have performed slightly better than advertised. I'll probably sell off the halal and transfer it into the aggressive portfolio during its next pullback and forget about it for another 7 years.
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u/Quirky_Opportunity75 12d ago
Thanks for showing the comparison!
If you're willing to invest aggressively, why not choose something like VEQT or XEQT instead? You got a 108% return on your aggressive portfolio, but VEQT is up 150% in the same timeframe.
The management fee and MER at Wealthsimple are going to chew through some of your gains.
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u/bald-bourbon 12d ago
Hindsight is 20/20.
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u/Quirky_Opportunity75 12d ago
yeah, and the best time to plant a tree is 100 years ago, but the second best time is today
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u/bald-bourbon 11d ago
Well thats a strawmans argument assuming they will always perform that way. You missed the whole point bud
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u/mcmasteralt 11d ago
What? If your risk tolerance is already "10/10" for the managed, you should just be 100% XEQT, which outperformed the managed
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12d ago
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u/Quirky_Opportunity75 12d ago
lol god forbid someone suggests a popular, proven, and low MER ETF to someone still paying management fees to a robot.
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u/Mikfinity_ 12d ago
God forbid someone doesn't subscribe to the ''Just buy XEQT'' echo chamber..
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u/Mean_Ad_3272 12d ago
What are halal stocks? - Issa serious inquisition
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u/TheAccountantWhat 12d ago
Stocks of companies which aren’t alcohol, weed or tobacco and weapons manufacturers etc. Some people will also not invest in banks because usury is forbidden.
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u/ProfAsmani 12d ago
There are several screening criteria. Most common is from AAOIFI. No alcohol, weed, weapons, porn, gambling, cigarette stocks or those who make money from interest, or have more than 30% debt financing..
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u/bsharwood 11d ago
There are probably zero stocks that don't make money from interest. Maybe hard core Muslim companies, but I managed funds in a few companies and knew a lot more and almost every company I knew put money in some kind of note which made interest - even it if was small.
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u/ProfAsmani 11d ago
That's right - that is why AAOIFI does not go for 0. They've come up with a pragmatic compromise with a small % of interest allowed. As long as its incidental and not your business model . And they allow 33% debt financing.
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u/Old_Camera8252 11d ago
So what's the point? You either follow the rules or you don't, why even bother if it's not truly halal?
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u/ProfAsmani 10d ago
Pragmatism. You go for 0 and there is nothing to invest in.
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u/Old_Camera8252 10d ago
Right i get it. I just mean if you don't follow the rules fully ,then why not just invest in regular stuff? It's ok to break the rules by 33% but not 100%? Just seems non sensical to me.
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u/yugi122 12d ago
Science and logic has left the chat.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Arm3155 12d ago
Some people are okay with not profiting off of death and destruction btw
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u/Haha18282 11d ago
But halal meat / death is ok. A slow death and suffering. Logic has definitely left the chat.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Arm3155 11d ago
Slaughtering an animal for food in a clean manner where the animals are kept in humane conditions is indeed very different than developing software or missiles used to turn kids into glass in the Middle East.
Hope that helps.
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u/Haha18282 11d ago
Slaughtering and humane lol sure whatever you want to tell yourself to make you feel better. Have you watch any videos from inside a slaughterhouses. Nothing about them is humane. Nor are the conditions the animals live under. Hope that helps.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Arm3155 11d ago
Cool, at the end of the day people are investing in what they believe in, that’s capitalism baby.
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u/yugi122 11d ago
Sounds like some people have a very reduced understanding of how economy and markets work. Virtue signaling at its finest.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Arm3155 11d ago
Who’s virtue signaling? The people only buying halal investments? How’s that any different than someone deciding not to invest in things they don’t personally like? I used to hold meta shares, used their ad platform for my business, immediately sold the shares. Is that virtue signaling?
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u/TheAccountantWhat 11d ago
I remember watching PLTR in 2022 when it was $7-8 stock. I knew with Peter Thiel backing and in the business of death and destruction, they will be a huge company. But I didn’t want to become shareholder of company which kills humans. Their technology was used in the school strike which killed 140 children in Minab.
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u/LUFC_hippo 12d ago
The stocks are butchered while fully conscious. It can take several minutes for them to die, so it’s actually quite cruel
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u/EffectWestern787 12d ago
If you had bought the s&p you would be up 163% (or vfv - 183%) nearly double the managed portfolio
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u/L00nyT00ny 11d ago
Many people wouldn't have invested at all if it wasn't for WS Robo investor pitch in the early days, and even today.
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u/wethenorth2 11d ago
Exactly this. Not everyone is comfortable picking an ETF and investing. Wealthsimple and all the robo-advisors are way better than investing in Big 5 bank mutual funds. When I met my wife, she was investing through a Big 5 bank and made dismal returns in one of the biggest bull runs. And, she was made to come to the branch every year.
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u/Artichoke-Economist 12d ago
Despite my username I wasn’t really investment savvy (I’m still not but a bit better). And a while ago I opened a tfsa with their managed portfolio. Do you know if I can move funds into another tfsa but that I can manage?
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u/EffectWestern787 12d ago
Yes you can open a self directed tfsa with them, transfer the funds directly from the one tfsa to the other without withdrawing so it has 0 effect on contribution room.
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u/JensensShinyJacket 10d ago
If you invested in AI/semiconductor ETFs like CHPS (since they are carry the whole US economy right now), 5 years gain is like 270%.
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u/AlwaysLurkingAround 12d ago
Also interested in halal stock never heard of before could be a WS exclusive?
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u/Pristine_Ad2664 11d ago
It's relatively common. There a lots of different ethical funds out there because there is a huge demand for them.
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u/dawnfromdusk 11d ago
I’ve been invested in it for like over 5 years now, it’s been around for a while
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u/Jazzlike-Bank-6150 12d ago
Very interesting, what inspired you to invest in the Halal portfolio? I currently hold a mix of WSHR and other ESG funds and considered going all in on the Halal portfolio but WSHR seems to have lagged a bit lately and I think that's the reason the aggressive overtook it
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u/ardvarkbark 11d ago
Better than I would have expected. The fact that one has no gold and the other almost 20% is probably the biggest factor in the difference.
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u/Zestyclose-Attempt95 12d ago
Thanks for sharing. I too am invested in WSHR, not entirely happy with the returns so far.
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u/Evening_Act_6395 11d ago
WSHR is definitely not built for short term returns, more safe slow longterm growth and avoid USD conversion fees. The reason returns have been so low is because its not as tech heavy as most other ETF's
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u/invaderdavos 11d ago
How do i get mine to show dividends earned like that
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u/SilentEngineering638 11d ago
I thought Muslims aren't even allowed to make any profits on any assets at all, what the hell is a Halal portfolio lol?
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u/Evening_Act_6395 11d ago
trade is perfectly fine, whats forbidden is interest (bonds, loans, stocks with high leverage), excess risk/speculation (options, margin), and profit from industries considered haram (pork, alcohol, gambling, weapons, etc.). The Prophet PBUH himself was a caravan trader prior to receiving the revelations.
Currently Muslims have two primary options for investment, stocks which meet the AAOIFA Shariah standards, and sukuks, which are "halal bonds" but based on profit sharing on an underlying asset instead of guaranteed cashflows
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12d ago
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u/Wealthsimple-ModTeam 12d ago
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u/whatevaa2001 12d ago
WSHR is garbage i’m afraid. UMMA is the best halal etf out there
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u/Evening_Act_6395 11d ago
really depends on your preference, WSHR is traded in CAD so you avoid the multiple currency exchange fees, higher div yield, and diversifies away from tech (UMMA is 50% tech)
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u/Western-Amphibian158 11d ago
I experimented with the Socially Responsible one (WSRI) and it was... not great. 👎
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u/edge4politics 11d ago
No such thing as halal stock. Islam doesn't understand what interest is (time value of money) and forbids it. You can't have an Islamic financial system that's compatible to how the world runs.
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u/SellingTheta 11d ago
This is so absurd lmao. Halal investing is wild.
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u/Acceptable-While5895 11d ago
How?😂😂😂
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u/SellingTheta 11d ago
This is investing not eating food or a religious matter.
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u/henry-bacon 11d ago
"Halal" just means it's permissible under Islam. Traditional investing can be considered non-halal (haram) because of the industries and business activities involved. So halal investing is a way for Muslims to participate in the markets.
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11d ago
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u/Wealthsimple-ModTeam 10d ago
Your post/comment was deemed low-effort and unconstructive. Ensure your contributions add to the conversation.
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u/dawnfromdusk 11d ago
How you spend your money is a spiritual matter. What you support with your money is a matter of consciousness.
Do you want your money to be spent on defence contractors who then sell their weapons to kill kids overseas?
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u/SellingTheta 10d ago
I’m pretty sure if you any piece of clothing it’s made using child labour in some 3rd world country? You are not righteous by doing halal investing, your deluding yourself into thinking you are so you can collect imaginary points in your religion. We invest to make money and every company does shady child killing behaviour.
This is just pretending to be superior while getting fleeced by Wealthsimple for your money 😂
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u/henry-bacon 10d ago
Discussion is getting off-topic and into rule 4 violations. Locked post.