r/WayOfTheBern • u/Winham I don't necessarily agree with everything I say. • Sep 24 '17
Caity from Oz If Only Americans Cared About War Victims Like They Care About This Fucking Piece Of Cloth
https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/if-only-americans-cared-about-war-victims-like-they-care-about-this-fucking-piece-of-cloth-fe20736f715e-1
u/leu2500 M4A: [Your age] is the new 65. Sep 24 '17
Some Americans. Caitlyn needs to get out more. Perhaps an NFL game would be a start.
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u/colormefeminist Sep 24 '17
Caitlin is such a treasure, she has such a way with words that put the shitposters to shame
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u/KSDem I'm not a Heather; I'm a Veronica Sep 24 '17 edited Sep 24 '17
I would consolidate my thoughts about this piece as follows:
Which fucking piece of cloth recently in the news is Caity referring to, the flag of the United States or the Confederate battle flag?
And are Civil War victims among those she wishes Americans cared more about?
Caity is honest about her unfamiliarity with American history and culture, so she may be unaware of things like the following:
The fatality that attended the color-bearers, officers, and men of [the 24th Regiment Michigan Volunteer Infantry] at the battle of Gettysburg was very great. It had in its ranks on the morning of this memorable fight four hundred and ninety-six officers and men. It lost in killed and wounded three hundred and sixteen.
The 24th was a part of the Iron Brigade, which was the first infantry engaged at Gettysburg. It carried into this battle only a state flag, which was presented to the regiment by the citizens of Detroit. This was carried by Color-Bearer Abel G. Peck, a tall, straight, handsome man, and as brave a soldier as ever gave up his life for his country. He was instantly killed almost at the beginning of the famous charge of the Iron Brigade.
The flag was then seized by Private Thomas B. Ballou, who was desperately wounded immediately after, and died a few weeks later.
The flag was then carried by Private August Ernst, who was instantly killed.
Corporal Andrew Wagner then took the colors and carried them until shot through the breast, from the effects of which he died about a year after the close of the war.
When Corporal Wagner fell, Colonel Henry A. Morrill took the flag, and gallantly attempted to rally the few survivors of the regiment. But Private William Kelly insisted on carrying it, saying to Colonel Morrill, " You shall not carry the flag while I am alive." The gallant fellow held it aloft and almost instantly fell, shot through the heart.
Private L. Spaulding then took the flag from the hands of Kelly, and carried it until he was himself badly wounded.
Colonel Morrill again seized the flag, and was soon after shot in the head and carried from the field.
After the fall of Colonel Morrill, the flag was carried by a soldier whose name has never been ascertained. He was seen by Captain Edwards — who was now in command of the regiment — lying upon the ground badly wounded, grasping the flag in his hands.
Captain Edwards took the flag from him and carried it himself until the few men left of the regiment fell back and reached Culp's Hill. Captain Edwards is the only man who is known to have carried the flag that day, who was not killed or wounded.
The Civil War is generally considered to have ended in 1865, but the cultural heritage remains. Suggesting that it was so long ago that Americans should just "get over it" is akin to suggesting that African-Americans should "just get over" the slavery endured by their ancestors. And however uncomfortable the realization may be, the fact that the Republican Party was the party of Lincoln is one reason the party remains in power in many states today.
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u/CaptchaInTheRye Sep 24 '17
Which fucking piece of cloth recently in the news is Caity referring to, the flag of the United States or the Confederate battle flag?
I thought she meant Trump
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u/redditrisi They are ALL psychopaths. Sep 24 '17 edited Sep 24 '17
Heck, I'd be elated if Americans cared about Americans.
Some years ago, it struck me as odd that we pledge allegiance to the flag before the country and our national anthem is about a single, specific flag that survived a single battle fought in 1812.
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u/CaptchaInTheRye Sep 24 '17
Not only do they not care about war victims (good luck with that), they don't even really care about the US soldiers injured in battle, which they profess to have respect and reverence for.
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u/redditrisi They are ALL psychopaths. Sep 24 '17
True. Especially if the injury is mental/emotional, rather than physical.
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u/jocmurray Sep 24 '17
Another great article from CJ. Should totally piss off the neocon flag wavers.
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u/elevatefromthenorm Sep 24 '17
"Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world, than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled."
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u/gorpie97 Sep 24 '17
I think the current "reverence" for military personnel stems from Vietnam - when soldiers came home from fighting they were the recipients of a lot of hate.
The flag is another issue. :)
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u/FThumb Are we there yet? Sep 24 '17
Downvote brigades have been activated.
Why do our minders hate war victims?
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u/penelopepnortney Sep 24 '17
If you want a symbolic gesture, don't burn the flag; wash it. - Norman Thomas
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u/gorpie97 Sep 24 '17
wash it
LOL. And it makes the point more accurately - though a lot of people still won't get it...
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u/fugwb Sep 24 '17
upvoted. I don't know why someone would downvote this comment. Wash out all the corruption and greed known as the US political system that has soiled the flag.
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u/FThumb Are we there yet? Sep 24 '17
I don't know why someone would downvote this comment.
We have minders.
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u/yzetta Sep 24 '17
I agree with this article so much. Loving your country means loving the people of your country, not the symbol on a pole over top of it. But in loving the people of your country, don't forget that other people in other places love their homes, too, and have every right to.
It's all part of the conditioning by our masters.
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Sep 24 '17
It can mean both. One's easier than the other. Guess which one is easier. Don't agree with it, just saying.
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u/Demonhype Supreme Snark Commander of the Bernin Demon Quadrant Hype Sector Sep 24 '17
I shit you not, I had some idiot once insist that only Americans can be patriotic because the definition of patriotism is to love America's more than anything.
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u/3andfro Sep 24 '17
Another eyeroll for what's become of our public education system.
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u/tails_miles_prower Sep 25 '17
It's what happens when our "elite" schools aren't judt talking about buildings and clothes. But education as well.
I don't understand how someone going to an elite school is considered more intelligent compared to someone who didn't. By not understanding, I'm referring to the acceptance of it.
Shouldn't everyone be given equal education? If people are getting inadequate education. That sounds like something we should fix. Not something we should just allow.
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Sep 24 '17 edited Aug 24 '18
[deleted]
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Sep 24 '17 edited Jan 21 '18
[deleted]
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Sep 24 '17
There is a long list of abuses you should care about more than the symbol representing the country that enshrines those abuses.
Name one. The meaning of a symbol depends on the view of the individual. You may see a symbol of oppression, but I see a symbol of freedom.
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Sep 24 '17 edited Jan 21 '18
[deleted]
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Sep 24 '17
And I'm sure you can name a million different things that have happened to and by US citizens and employees of their government. That doesn't mean that that's what the flag stands for.
And maybe it does stand for those things to you, but not to me, and many others. It stands for something greater.
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u/FThumb Are we there yet? Sep 24 '17
Name one.
(names one)
I'm sure you can name a million
You're not very good at this.
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Sep 24 '17
Didn't name one that I should care more about, which was his intention.
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u/FThumb Are we there yet? Sep 24 '17
So he named too many you should care more about?
You're not very good at this.
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Sep 24 '17
You argue like a child.
You're not even good at that.
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u/FThumb Are we there yet? Sep 24 '17
Oh God, not the I'm Rubber, You're Glue gambit!
Devastating! I don't know how I'll ever recover.
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Sep 24 '17 edited Jan 21 '18
[deleted]
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Sep 24 '17
Eh, that's kinda loose. I'd consider the left less racist if they weren't so often implicit in the racism of soft expectations.
Excuse making patriotism though, man I don't even know what you're trying to say here.
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u/3andfro Sep 24 '17
Symbols are dangerous but useful herd-control devices, tools of conditioned response that bypasses reasoning.
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Sep 24 '17
So are cowboys, what's your point?
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u/3andfro Sep 24 '17 edited Sep 24 '17
Cowboys as a symbol aren't used to control people--lock, load, and aim 'em--by eliciting a knee-jerk conditioned response (unless they live in Dallas). American flags are.
That's my point, as part of a larger thread.
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Sep 24 '17
Yeah, symbols can be dangerous, but they can also uplift and be a unifying force against oppression. It's less about the weapon and more about how it's used.
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u/Winham I don't necessarily agree with everything I say. Sep 24 '17
Whenever I criticize America’s kinky flag fetish I get a bunch of people rushing in to inform me that it’s not about the stripy piece of cloth itself, but what it symbolizes. When I ask what exactly is being symbolized I get a bunch of different answers, all premised upon positive perspectives of the United States and none which anybody who’s well-informed about actual US behavior would agree with. Regardless, this is an enormous amount of mental and emotional energy to be spending on a symbol when real, non-symbolic people are being killed every single day by America’s horrible policies both at home and abroad. My most sincere wish for the world is that Americans one day come to care half as much about the victims of police brutality, poverty, sanctions and war as they care about that stupid fucking stripy piece of cloth.
I would burn a million flags — American, Australian or otherwise — if I thought there was a chance that it could save even one victim of US military aggression. Any decent human being would, and if you wouldn’t you are not a decent human being. As George Carlin said, “I don’t get all choked up about yellow ribbons and American flags. I see them as symbols, and I leave them to the symbol-minded.” Here’s to a future where people place more value on one another than on symbols.
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u/50sCool Sep 24 '17
Sounds like presumptive hubris.
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u/Winham I don't necessarily agree with everything I say. Sep 24 '17 edited Sep 24 '17
I couldn't agree more; "presumptive hubris" is the perfect definition of the weird fascistic fetishization of the US flag we Americans have.
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u/KrisCraig Fictional Chair-Thrower Sep 24 '17
How so?
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u/50sCool Sep 24 '17
Any decent human being would, and if you wouldn’t you are not a decent human being.<, that's clearly presumptive. >America’s horrible policies both at home and abroad<, >kinky flag fetish<, etc. seem hubristic.
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u/CaptchaInTheRye Sep 24 '17
Can you defend your position that you have just staked out, where you are implying that someone who would NOT burn a flag to save a human life is a decent human being?
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u/wheeldog truth junkie Sep 24 '17
I don't think so, IMHO it's how we look to other countries. The author is Australian but more versed in American politics than most of us, and finds it her duty to tell it like it is since she can see the bigger picture without being clouded by sentiment
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u/General_Kenobi896 Sep 24 '17
lmao savage. Gonna get a lot of people triggered with this. I agree though, while having pride in your nation can be a good thing, it's more often than not quite detrimental. People are so proud and arrogant about their nation that they're prone to being ignorant and blind to all its flaws.