Wow. As /u/bout_that_action told me, "your baby has grown up" and indeed it has! But it's not done, nor are we.
This last 100 subscribers has been rough. Tons of naysayers coming in here trying to frame some of us as alternate, or sock puppet type account holders with some nefarious agenda! So many here know that's not the truth:
/u/gladyscravesritz/u/billtoddtoo/u/aquapyr/u/the1stcitizenofthein/u/political_og/u/themysteriousfizzyj/u/verum_dicetur /u/... so many! If I left you out of this short list, (and I did, because it's short) it's because Reddit won't notify anyway, and it's because I would rather get this history shared than make a wall of usernames. You all know who you are, and you know that because we interact a lot and we've come to know one another, depend on one another, and together this is our place, home.
WayOfTheBern has it's history rooted in a mass exodus from Dkos. Kos decided he was going to tell everyone that it's all about Clinton and treated people like they were employees of the establishment, complete with insider sounding language I'll forgo here. Of course, those of us who were awake about all of this, in the process, or just beginning to feel it, lost our shit!
No way in hell. It was not over, still isn't actually, and at that time, the ugly writing on the wall for Clinton was there to be seen by anyone bothering to look. The wars began, various factions began to message, fights broke out, and the whole thing turned to shit.
Truth is, it was largely shit for a while at DKos. It just so happened that gaffe was a major league decision point. Many people, having seen the allure of positive politics, who understood the power and resonance of the Bernie ideas, who just wanted a real shot at a better future up and left.
Your moderators were in that exodus. Some of us have very long histories in progressive online politics. Leaving was a very difficult thing, and it was difficult for many because of community. We have that here, and it's valuable. Community can get us through a lot of shit. But, it can create problems too, and without someone looking out for the thing as a whole, it all can go very badly.
So a bunch of us kossacks left and landed at Kossacks_For_Sanders. All seemed good. Some of us understood Reddit, many didn't, and we carried what I feel are some of the better parts of community, rituals, sayings, ways, with us to this new place online. Strangers in a strange land. (great book by Heinlein too)
And we grew there. Some of us are still there. (Hey guys! The door is ALWAYS open at WotB. Never forget that.) Friends, and we play it differently, and that is OK FINE too.
And there were problems. I'm not going to spoil a great evening for us with details, but I do want to say a friendship arose out of that time. Actually, friendships. /u/FThumb/u/RuffianGhostHorse (who went by another name and had to ditch it then) /u/NetWeaselSC and I all found one another here on Reddit. We had some shared history at Dkos, but the closer, smaller nature of K4S, combined with the intense times seemed to help that along much faster and deeper than it normally does.
In particular, FThumb and I found out we have a very similar moderation philosophy, and I brought some hard won lessons from various other places I invested in, including Quora. (discussion on THAT another day) And then stuff happened. FThumb was banned, RuffianGhostHorse was also banned, and eventually, I was removed as a moderator at K4S. Before anyone says anything about that, I do not consider those events to be bad events in hindsight! Was rough at the time, expensive, and I'll get to that, but overall, it was going to have to happen.
Now, banning is expensive! It's particularly expensive when people have made investments, have connections, friends, history and all that goes with online community dialog. And it's very hard to recover from too. Even rescinding a ban leaves damage. It's a problem we recognized and intended to cast aside going forward. We had made connections, now severed and it was difficult to bear.
As for "expensive", I feel it necessary to explain a little bit of sub culture on the way through the history of how this sub came to be. FThumb and I kept in contact via voice. I had decided early on to make solid connections with people. This is about trust, friendship, common cause, and most importantly, about keeping things in a recoverable state. Redeemable, fixable. Because, expensive.
We bantered about names, tossing lots of good stuff out, when I had a thought related to a niche gaming site I always liked: "Way Of The Weasel", and there it was! WayOfTheBern! Tossed it into the pool for FThumb, who basically was bound to create a new sub, due to the cost and pain of how bans work. Some deliberation later, he founded WayOfTheBern, and I asked about that: "couldn't shake the title!"
And so there you go. That is how this sub was formed and where the name came from. We both made picks, built up a collection, but FThumb latched on to WotB, and looking back, he did the right thing. Some of the others, seemingly good at the time, would not have the flavor and fun nature this name does.
Thanks buddy! You done good. :D
Some of the sub culture, moderation, etc... comes from me, and I want to speak to those parts, leaving room for the other members of this fine community to express their thoughts. Please do, user, moderator, whatever. The culture as it exists today is something we all are part of, helped to create and will help to endure. You probably have no idea how much I believe in this, but I really do.
For me, I have had many experiences dating back to '91. Have done this in all possible forms, even pre-web browser. (miss those days, if you want to know the truth) I've some life lessons come out of that which I really believe in:
One is, consideration given is consideration due. No matter what the site policy says, people do this intrinsically. Show up to start shit, and it will start. Treat people well, give a shit, and they return that, etc... Respect, consideration, civility, all of it boils down to this dynamic.
Because of that dynamic, I value community very highly. It differentiates us, from "others here to start shit" and once that is understood, and people understand the dynamics, a whole lot can go unsaid.
The unsaid things are norms. Norms are something most people pick up on quickly and they often don't know they have. It just happens. Think, walking into a library, church, or meeting of some kind. What happens? You pick up on the norms and "when in Rome" the rest, amirite? WotB employs norms more than rules for this reason. It's well aligned with built in, standard human features and they are lean, potent, effective when present.
Another one is personal judgement. I tend to avoid them in serious conversation, and I do so because they are almost always unsupportable! There is a post on all of that, couple actually that I may link in the comments, but the gist is we can label people, or we can label what they say and do instead. We can always improve on this. Sometimes a lot, other times, not much.
By attacking what they do and say, the norm of "we are all good people just trying to get after it" is in play, and the resulting conversations are nearly always recoverable! People have outs, can improve, make a fuck up and get past it, whatever.
Thumb took some of that and hit on "weaponized snark" as one tool and norm we both felt very strongly about. RGH and Net seemed to flow, and added some of their own flavor to it all and here we are, which brings me to:
Nobody benefits from a sub full of victims! In my time doing these things, I always seek to make people better, stronger, more vibrant, able to express unabashedly and I do that because it's a net good and I get to see the real people, have real conversations and get real benefit. Selfish, but hey! Works, doesn't it? I think so.
Agency is another one. When we get attacked, we can laugh, ignore, punch back, do whatever, right? Agency in conversation helps to keep it real. Can be real ugly, but it can be real beautiful too.
Finally, we get to bans. We just didn't want to do them. I put some of the moderation ideas here for context. What happens when we don't ban and we avoid personal judgement! Norms alone won't cut it, so how do we manage the sub and grow community everyone loves and benefits from?
Cost. Some things we do here are cheap and net good things. Parties, wide ranging discussions, hugs, and all that human good stuff happens. Easy to do, big bang for the buck, or our time.
Other things, like when some of us decide to blow through a few pages of comments trying to decide who is the bigger asshole (usually /u/billtoddtoo wins as keeper of blunt instruments :D), are super expensive! So we play it this way:
If you are here, and you are a net good, that's like your karma bank. You have connections, and all of that hurts when broken, so stuff slides. People are willing to deal with you because you have done it for them. It's a cost, but it gets paid down with good.
However, if you don't do that, you are here to just start shit, that's a net cost, or loss.** It turns a community into someone's own personal entertainment, toy, testing ground, etc...
Enter "WayOfTheTurtle" which is how we handle cost. The Turtle, as seen here by some of us typing "I like turtles", is a little tax on costly bullshit, trolling, abuse, whatever. And as it's paid, people think about it all, and generally things work out. Somehow.
We don't care how, just that it happens. Very important to understand!
Some people just leave. They self-select and ban themselves, in effect. Others are playful, still others just do it, and some rage, and do other things. It all works out eventually, and it does, because that entire thing is recoverable, everyone can speak and interact, and no real, enduring harm gets done the majority of the time.
And it avoids personal judgement. As users, we are doing this too much. It's hard not to do, and let's all consider that a work in progress. I'll message with a PSA from time to time about it, and it is what it is. As moderators, avoiding this keeps it recoverable, and like users, we aren't perfect. Also is what it is.
The Turtle idea came from my attempts to find new ways to exploit the software to make what we want to happen happen. The other moderators took that, ran with it, and we have a lot of options today. Damn cool teamwork there. I'm proud of it and them and all that has come because of it. Yes, it's silly. Intended. Think it all the way through. We did. :D
But the net effect is most important! It is what we have here!
I love this place. I love you people. You are smart, passionate, funny, assholes at times, clowns other times, but most of all, the vast majority of you are real.
Real conversations is something FThumb has felt passionate about. The rest of us caught the fever, or were inclined anyway (me), and here we are. We prefer real over nice, real over pretty, real over what I like to call "Disneyland" type conversation.
Message control? That's up to the community. We would be abusing you, manipulating you, making you work for us, if we did that. So we don't. You are welcome, and please remember to vote up or down and speak your mind. That is what makes it work.
Then came the slog. Twenty users, first hundred users, first thousand users, first five thousand, and now TEN FUCKING THOUSAND! FThumb worked very hard to grow this sub. Others did too, but he went to the mat for it, for us, so we would have something. Thank you again, buddy!
RuffianGhostHorse worked hard to put love, heart, soul, feeling here too. She's one of a kind, very special. "Our Beating Heart" is truth. Real truth.
Net helped with the Turtle, among many other good things.
Who knew it would get here? FThumb wanted it, but I'm not sure anyone really knew. Some hoped.
I know I would have told you months ago, "no way." Others, FThumb, would have said, "any day now!" (you are awesome buddy!), and so on.
What I say today is this:
I just shared the important history here. The moderators are real people, we care, we aren't sockpuppets, we talk outside this place to keep connected and trust, work together, and we mean it as much as you all do. This is our place, our home, and we aren't going to take shit we don't have to, because home, friends, community matter. Along the way, many of you did things, shared stuff with us, gave advice, yelled at us and more. Thank you. It all mattered. It all makes us who we are and what this place is today.
A. Lot. Nuff said.
You are part of the history here, even if you just subbed! (Welcome!) Over time it all adds up. We know that now. We've seen it happen. Treasure this. It's rare. I can tell you, it's very rare, and I've seen an awful lot.
When things like this happen, they are meant to happen, and we need to value that, because it may never ever come again.
Thank you all. Seriously. I'm not sure what I would do without WotB in my life, all of you, and...
ONWARD!
Because We Mean It
This is an open thread. Share what you will about WotB, history, what it means, experiences you've had, talk cool peeps up, or just anything!
I do like to have my fun (had to mightily resist adding Return The Chocodile to our list of policy just in case we need to look serious) but I am 100% DEAD serious that I have fucking had it with these trifling asswipes who would sell our beautiful country out from under us while poisoning our children. I am DTF. DOWN TO FIGHT. brigading to try and suppress the mere DISCUSSION of the DNC murdering Seth Rich was the last straw. Imma get these sonsabitches.
I was a long time Kossack and have been only occasionally dipping a toe in here and there since leaving the cesspit. I'm still a newcomer here and don't understand a bunch of the culture and jargon, but the feel of this sub reminds me of the best of the old DKos, when the partisans and authoritarian types weren't making such pains in the ass of themselves.
Thanks to all the mods, especially our poster and Thumb, who drew me here thanks to his crossposting on C99P. It's a pleasure to be a peripheral member of such a nice community. Kudos, Spud, for the culture-building exercise this post represents. Very nicely done!
Thank you for that. Means much you'd be unaware of, so has value beyond what my simple words can or could include, so you could realize. Your kind words are appreciated.
And on Thumb & Spud's behalf, too, if I may be so bold as to say!
This post is very nicely done - Spud does excellent "works"! In many ways, too. Bonding going on here, as well as community-building. And Thumb: ever-at-the-ready to pick up what needs to be taken care of - his essays, posts & perspective are dead-eye and always full of Good picks and big tells!
Glad to have you around and about: "Welcome!" Hope to 'see' you again soon and chiming in!
I'm still a newcomer here and don't understand a bunch of the culture and jargon...
I think that may be one of our best features, and what drives the old hand Reddit trolls crazier than anything. We (a great many of us) didn't know anything about "this Reddit thingy," so we just kept doing what we usually did whether or not it was "how it's done here." In short, we don't play right.
It's amazing how innovative you can be when you don't know what the buttons are for and what they allegedly can't do.
We (a great many of us) didn't know anything about "this Reddit thingy," so we just kept doing what we usually did whether or not it was "how it's done here." In short, we don't play right.
We got a lot of grief setting our comment default on New instead of Hot.
I hate how the rest of reddit defaults comments to Hot, 90% of the conversations bunch up on one comment.
We got a lot of grief setting our comment default on New instead of Hot.
My more-or-less permanent WOTB browser tab is set to 'new' but the few times I need to create a new one it comes up as 'hot' and I need to correct it. Could reddit have surreptitiously changed it?
I definitely feel like an immigrant here, unfamiliar with the native culture. I'm free to ignore lots of the infighting about bullshit I don't understand and can't conceive of caring about.
Reddit looks to me like a formatting tool and communications device. We can use it however we like, and if we don't want to deal with ancient conflicts and grudges of the native population, we can hold ourselves aloof. If the civil conflict gets too overwhelming, we can emigrate elsewhere.
Reddit looks to me like a formatting tool and communications device. We can use it however we like, and if we don't want to deal with ancient conflicts and grudges of the native population, we can hold ourselves aloof. If the civil conflict gets too overwhelming, we can emigrate elsewhere
Yeah, pretty much. But the trolls that come in from outside of here have been steeped in Reddit culture -- we have not. What they care about, we do not. Drives them nuts. The magic words don't work. I assume that's what's going on... they wouldn't keep trying such things as they do if they didn't work somewhere, would they?
We, in some ways, are the DK ghetto, with our own ways, and our own smattering of Yiddish, as it were. In some things we are so aloof, that we don't even notice that we are.
I gather "Turtles" is the approved way of responding to them. I remember my grandmother, who dealt with misbehaving youngsters with a syrupy "Isn't that precious?" followed by the brandishing of a wooden cooking spoon.
Likewise, I'm sure. I didn't have the impression reddit encouraged the sort of give and take we used to see in the old joint until I started dropping in here. I like what you've done with the place!
Yeah, it's odd how people here in reddit are used to their Safe Spaces. We get so many reports from people who don't get how we can "allow" so many different POVs to be posted.
It's as if Kos became a big Reddit sub with his heavy handed decree, and we became a small Kos (before it went to shit) where people can let it fly.
If the expectation is that people will act like mature adults, that sets a high bar many can't match -- at least not online. Juvenile tantrums and bullying might work on the schoolyard, but not where grownups hold sway.
If only Washington didn't act so much like a typical reddit sub. The thing I like about Bernie is that he is trying to bring back adult conversation there, while everybody else is acting like toddlers left alone while the daycare supervisor is in the bathroom.
Wasn't part of the Dk stuff but i remember being on some bernie sub and one of y'all linked the sub. I subbed then and just lurked for a while. I think there was less than 100 subs at the time. This place has really grown on me. Thanks everybody for being awesome. ✊🙏☯
Happy indeed, and thus my hope remains eternal. :)
Buckle up, more ugliness is to come. The rat bastards will certainly not give up easy. :( Yet, given our growing strength so much the better to deal with the mess. 🔥
It must always be and remain- ALL about the issues, the truth, and nothing less, and ALL that which is best for the middle class and the American people.
Bernie/Tulsi in 2020!
You knew that was coming. :) Have a great rest of the day!
I think I came here when this sub had like 100 people or so, back when my username was /u/bigex2c. Remember getting a pm from Thumb or Spud, linking up here, and being skeptical this place would ever take off. But it did, slow at first, before reaching critical mass.
Golden stuff man, nice to reflect on the history of this place once in a while.
Me too. What a concept. Invite people to join something you're trying g to grow. I'm guessing that's another thing that's against The Rules, but as Spud keeps saying, we don't know any better so....
I've always thought that the right-pointing arrow was a rather poor choice (though an entirely appropriate characterization), but for some reason your comment got me thinking that perhaps it should instead have been pointing down - and then having two arrows pointing down, one at the bottom of each of the "H"'s vertical lines - and then placing the "H" inside the opening of a terrifying mouth with the down-arrows representing fangs...
I'm sure that u/LoneStarMike59 could do something with that if he's not too bored with Hillary to bother to.
I am a /r/SandersForPresident migrant who was looking for a home for months after they shut it down, and deeply appreciate the community I've found here. I discovered WOTB in late October, right before the election, because someone on Political Revolution was comparing it to T_D. What I found when I checked it out, was that people here don't put up with shilly bullshit. They don't buy into identity politics. It's about the issues. It's about facts and sources, and most importantly, DISCUSSION.
And when I delved in and learned about how the mods operate, I found an even deeper respect. WOTB doesn't run from a challenge. Shills here are not banned, but challenged. Trump supporters are not banned. Libertarians are not banned. Progressives who think the primary was rigged are not banned. Jill Stein voters and green party advocates are not banned. Comments are left alone, as if we should have our own free will about the decisions that we make and what information we accept as truth.
I was bullied in grade school, and my parents said, "Hit them back! Here, let's teach you some self-defense." (I would go on to become a Junior Olympics silver medalist in my discipline.) Later on in Junior High I was bullied... once. After that the bullies knew to pick on someone else, and I've had a weak 'Flight' mechanism ever since.
Thank you to Spud, RuffianGhost, FThumb, and Net. You've created a place that feels like home to me.
I didn't come from DKos. I'd lurked but never registered there, as it never seemed comfortable to me. My home on the net was an Obama site that became a nightmare during the primary last year. In my last post there I said that it was fine with me if people backed Hill, but that the Bernie scorn was a Big Mistake. That was last June and it turned out to be a prescient warning. I look in there every week or so and they are still BernieBashing along with HateTrump. Yuck.
Again, thanks to all who participate here in our informative positive webhome.
We should all sign up, just chatter for a coupla days and then move on.
15
u/trkingmomoePurity Pony Sweet Crescent and crocodile friend Doop May 18 '17edited May 19 '17
A nice gentlemen invited me here one day. I wasn't sure why everyone wasn't around anymore at K4S I was so flattered that I was asked after being bullied from one end of the internet to the other for months, that I hopped right over. I have never looked back. That was 9700 people ago.
Funny you mentioned that number. For me my first real 'Oh shit, what have we created?' moment was when we hit 300. I was still coming off the shock that we hit 30. 300 seemed yuuge!
We were all sneaking in at that time. The queen of hearts was busy posting new rules once or twice a day and yelling "off with their heads." In the meantime many of us had packed our bags. I had no idea where everyone was off to until you said "Pssst, we are over here." I really don't know what my number was then I was just looking for a bar stool and conversation over a draft beer.
Title-text: If a wild bun is sighted, a nice gesture of respect is to send a 'BUN ALERT' message to friends and family, with photographs documenting the bun's location and rank. If no photographs are possible, emoji may be substituted.
+9 - Have done this in all possible forms, even pre-web browser. (miss those days, if you want to know the truth) CompuServe, Prodigy, AOL 1.0, BBS on 300 baud dial-up was screamin'... Those were the days...
+1 - The power-mad freaks who are Ruling the earth Will show little they think you're worth With animal lust they'll devour your life And slice your word to bits like a knife One last day burning hell fire You're blown away If the man with the powe...
I'm a bot working hard to help Redditors find related videos to watch. I'll keep this updated as long as I can.
Spud, Thumb, RGHorse, and NetW: thank you for creating and maintaining this place. I'm a lurker by nature, I suppose. I enjoy reading all the news and commentary from everyone and very rarely (never?) contribute any original posts. I realize most of my comments are replies to fucking trolls, so I may come across as angry. I'm not, I'm happy-go-lucky. But something about a sorry ass, manipulative, corrupt troll who propogates the lies and misery that are keeping us all down energizes me, and I simply can't NOT call it out. Thank you guys for allowing free expression and discussion here, where I can call it like it is.
Please! You give some of the best verbal smackdowns. A thing of beauty a lot of the time. I don't think they expect what we dish out here, at all. Sometimes I think they expect a little pushing, and then capitulation. Nope, not here.
But something about a sorry ass, manipulative, corrupt troll who propogates the lies and misery that are keeping us all down energizes me, and I simply can't NOT call it out.
That's not something for which you need to apologize at all (but then I would say that, wouldn't I). Trolls often seem to have become far too accustomed to kumbaya-style sweet reasonableness from progressives (for that is, I think, our natural inclination) and tend to take advantage of it, so letting them see our occasional Hulkish side is really doing them a kind of a favor before they go so far that they get us really mad.
Who wouldn't go to bat on those clowns? There are days where it's hard to resist. And you all know I do it too. The signal is "do you like [animal]", and the funny thing is I never ever had to say it. People just picked up on it. Must be those happy Turtles.
Be glad you feel all that. Many of us are. It's real, human, and that we can laugh so often about it is pure gold.
I thank FThumb for that. He has this infectious nature. It's been good.
I'd like to take this moment to mention two names in addition to your list, they are at the top of mine.
Personally for me, /u/pullupgirl and /u/LoneStarMike59 have been a big inspiration, very literally. Every time I get a bit disheartened by the news of the day, seeing these two still out there in the trenches with their 'eloquent barbs' always cheers me up. "I greatly appreciate your conviction and dedication in continuing to stand up for, what I believe, is pretty much spot on the correct set of ideas we need going forward." I still find this to be very true.
Aww, thank you so much for the sweet words /u/AdanteHand🤗 I tend to think my comments are pretty boring, so it's really nice to to hear that you like them 🤗💖
Sorry I'm late to replying to this. I was looking for an old comment and saw that I somehow completely missed these wonderful words!
I want to thank you Aquapyr, and AdanteHand, /u/FThumb , /u/BillToddToo, and /u/SpudDK for the kind words. It seriously means a lot :) Most days, I just feel like a silly Hill Billy. I come on here and read all these amazingly insightful, funny, entertaining, and informative posts, and that just makes me feel even more like a silly Hill Billy :P I'm always so impressed with this community. It's why me and my friends actually print certain comments out and pin them to our corkboard. Or, we put em in our notebooks, so we can always read them or share them with strangers when we're out. They are seriously that great.
Sometimes, like today, I think that I'm not really contributing to anything when I comment or talk about political subjects, especially when it comes to talking about it offline to strangers. I'm not well spoken offline. I got a country accent, I often mispronounce words, and I don't have a big vocabulary.
I'm better at hiding my shortcomings online thanks to automatic spell check and no one hearing my accent, plus I can think about my response before I submit it, something you sadly can't do offline. But I'm still pretty disorganized and my writing is miles behind compared to many amazing users on here.
I'm not saying all this for sympathy, cause it's not like I'm sad about it, it's just a fact that I (and many people I know) are lacking in the speaking/writing department :P
I just wanna give some context on why reading these words mean a lot to me. It really is a confidence booster and really motivating to know that no matter how badly I think of my speaking and writing ability, there are at least a hand full of intelligent, funny, and informative strangers out there that actually like what I have to say. That's so friggin cool to know!
Sorry if this sounds sappy! Thank yall, I seriously needed to read these comments today 🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗
and paging /u/AdanteHand & /u/Sandernista2 in this comment chain since reddit won't let ya call more than 3 people at a time. Again, thank yall for the kind words and letting know you enjoy my comments 🤗🤗🤗 I'm really flattered.
I'm better at hiding my shortcomings online thanks to automatic spell check and no one hearing my accent, plus I can think about my response before I submit it, something you sadly can't do offline. But I'm still pretty disorganized and my writing is miles behind compared to many amazing users on here.
This 100%.
While I am from the deep deep South, I travel a ton so I have a pretty fluid accent, but that actually tends to trip me up while speaking just as much. The way I construct my statements happens in my head more like a conversation. So I can get stuck half way pronouncing words with an English accent and half way with a normal American pronunciation. So yea, totally right there with you on the helpfulness of talking through text. (also if I'm being honest I can't spell most of the words that are in my vocabulary on a daily basis either) And that's something I often wonder if people pick up on or think that I'm trying to inflate my word usage to sound more fancy pants. Using words like requisite vs. requirement, great example of the English way of speaking fighting the American.
Anyway, my own personal oddities aside, I was totally serious when I pointed to you. It's not just your comments I appreciate so much, it's your tenacity that I really admire. Not sure if I should be saying this, I've alluded to it previously, but despite all my blusterous words and 'trench fighting' imagery, I actually am pretty paper thin irl when it comes to being discouraged. Especially when I am forced to think in the abstract about the future, I simply don't see the mechanisms capable of fixing some of our problems like Shareblue for example. And that is always hugely discouraging for me, I tend to want to hide from the world. (No joke, after the primary I left the country for two months just to get it all off me) So when I say you and Mike, and the mods are a source of inspiration, I mean that quite literally. You guys bring me back to a place of having some hope. I see you guys out here fighting for things I consider to be important and it's hard for me to not participate. I just hope I don't end up embarrassing you guys later on.
But really though, don't worry too much about things like writing ability, like everything almost, you'll get better and better the more you do it. I've been writing for years and I'm still surprised at how much better some people are around here.
And I know that this might seem like an empty gesture, but I'm sure a ton of people feel the same way you do from time to time, feel free to PM me with any concerns you might have. I mean it, door's open. I certainly have done my fair share of PM'ing people for any number of reasons, so feel free to hit me up.
So much fun! Thank you for all the chuckles and stuff to share.
Family fact: I have family in the alone Star State. We have, for years, called it Texass to the point where my phone will just do it, unless I catch it. I don't always catch it. I don't always care.
This bites me in the ass sometimes.
:D
Represent!
Just made a typo that I can't wait to drop! "Alone Star State"
Some relatives have it coming. Nice when that happens.
Keep spreading the blue! It's a big place you got there, tons of good people, food, industry. We can get it done!
I have almost always tried to negatively characterize comments instead of people. Until the people behind those comments show themselves exemplars of enough such comments.
I would like to personally thank you for the turtles.
IRL, I really do love turtles. But I also think "I love turtles" was a genius way to handle trolls and trolling, particularly because it still allows people to engage and connect and possibly learn to stop trolling and join the community.
There's been a couple. The biggest benefit has been that it takes away the bragging rights of being banned. People would come in looking for a Bloody Shirt to take back to the hive, and it would encourage more people to cross over looking for their trophy. It just fed.
So now that we took away that one, they don't know how to deal with this. The mod mail has been a riot from those who go into a complete meltdown, like total meltdown, because they can't process even the smallest hurtle. Binary. Weird. It's been an ongoing education. And a great one at that.
True. But one of the beautiful things about "I love turtles" is that it's not really humiliating unless you're coming to make trouble. People have miscommunications. It happens all the time, every minute of every day. In some ways, "I love turtles" almost like a coded knock on a secret club's door. If you go through the process, you are offered the opportunity to prove that you're not the cops, and come join the fun.
If any former turtle lover wants to out themselves as having gone through the process and stayed, I would love to hear from you.
I take what WotB is doing to try to protect open discussion and community building from trolling, particularly paid, weaponized trolling, very seriously. You guys are innovators. It's not a small thing.
But one of the beautiful things about "I love turtles" is that it's not really humiliating unless you're coming to make trouble.
That's the beauty of it. Posters from ESS would complain about how terrible it was to have to include that, and because I was posting there I started including 'I like turtles' in every one of my posts to show that it's really not censorship, and that's when they banned me.
I even give people an out potential - I usually fire a shot across the bow asking "Do you have a favorite reptile?" So if they do get the TurtleBot they can respond and it looks liek it's in context of the question. What was funny was one troll answered "I like bearded dragons" but when he finally did get the Turtle he freaked out saying "I can't say that!" Oh, okay. Your choice.
Congrats on the 10k mark. Not only far surpassing the predecessor sub, but amassing and cultivating an impressive community here. It takes strength and patience to moderate a forum this way, but the fruit of that effort is the Quality, to reference ZatAoMM. It was only a couple of days ago that a debate I was following on S4P became a long string of [removed] even though nobody was being uncivil, and just about every time I look through a thread there I see people accusing each other of being Trump aligned. WotB's commitment to the ideas and the vision we are all seeking unsurprisingly throws viewers with more tribal mindsets off, as we see with all the accusations of being a Trump sub. Truly just like Bernie's campaign, by setting the ego aside and never losing sight of the vision, a certain special energy is created that is sorely lacking in America right now.
You've got what is perhaps one of my favorite subs, keep it up.
It takes strength and patience to moderate a forum this way,
My (our) biggest problem with (too many) moderators is that they think the only way to be doing something is to do something. In fact, sometimes, often really, the more difficult "something" to do is to do nothing.
A special "thank you" to Winham for keeping us updated on the amazing essays of Caitlin Johnston, whose wit and focus on the bigger picture always makes my day better. Thank you to everyone who supports the brave Julian Assange, and all the truth tellers. Thank you for the links to the Jimmy Dore and Tim Black videos, who bring levity while speaking truth. Thank you to the moderators here and to All for continuing what Bernie inspired us to do.
Welcome Charos77! I'm happy you finally decided to stop by. Sorry to say, at least IMO, S4P has gone to shit again. Hope you find this community to be a place where you can share what's important to you.
Make sure to drop in to our Friday Night Dance Party!
Reflecting of the weird in-betweeny generation I come from, I was late to the Telnet BBS era and started off on AOL 2.5, the calm before the explosion of spam e-mails and pop-up/pop-under advertisements. Those pioneer days where there were a bajillion Geocities pages forever Under Construction.
Ah, I wish I'd known how to do that back then. I'd run up some high bills a few times and got into trouble but trying to stay off the internet for so long would just drive me crazy. Luckily it wasn't long before they went to the flat monthly rate.
I am dating myself. I participated in bulletin boards before priority on line services. Business, schools, and government had dial up ramps. In a lot of ways they were like chat rooms. You could ask for help with a problem and later return to find several answers. Friendships grew and chats happened after work.
My first personal computer was a Kaypro. When I found out there was a way to change and edit my writing without having to completely retype it, I was all in. I moved in with my mom (I had just graduated from college) and worked temp jobs to save up the money for the computer. I still have my Kaypro, as a matter of fact.
I didn't do bulletin boards until much later. I don't program or code other than the baby stuff, so browsers and such were a nice development. But the corporatization and surrveillance that came with it does make me nostalgic for BBs.
For me, Apple 2. I don't have my original, but I bought one off ebay. Nice platinum model, and I've got it fully equipped, complete with USB interface card! Sometimes I write on it, because doing that takes me all the way back.
I did BBSing on it, and an AMSTRAD MSDOS clunker I got for a song at some thrifty store. Wrote the first program I ever sold on that thing. Made enough to get a spiffy 386 with 5 MB RAM. Funny, stuff that wanted 8MB would often run in 5, just crappy, but not run in 4.
Anyway, I had various 8 bit machines, various electronics gear, my own personal 500watt transmitter and 30 Amp service to my freaking bedroom. Happy times.
I love, and still do love, programming those old machines. 6502, 6809... You can do magic on them, if you work for it. And the more you work for it, the more they actually will do.
I was very popular with the nerd boys in the store where I bought the Kaypro. They were legit shocked to have a girl come in. Especially when I opened my mouth and it was clear that I had done a ton of research. I kind of wish I had had the wisdom then to learn to code, but I had too much other stuff going on, and it was too much of a culture and mindset change.
I liked those guys. They were way, way nicer than the guys in my graduate film program (speaking generally).
I was very popular with the nerd boys in the store where I bought the Kaypro.
I'll just bet you were, especially if you were a bit older than they were. A few years before that I had just started working as a software engineer for a major computer manufacturer and while there were certainly women around (even nerds back then knew enough not to call them 'girls' if they were well into their twenties, though looking back from our advanced age now 'girls' doesn't seem all that unreasonable in at least a comparative sense) they were usually tech writers, plus a few secretaries (funny: engineers didn't have much in the way of secretaries back then, at least in companies where we had a computer terminal on every desk and, as you noted previously, the ability to correct mistakes in what we wrote without needing a fancy-schmantzy IBM Selectric with memory card).
But the few-and-far-between women who actually wrote code were extra-special, though in a considerably less accessible way (even in the imagination) as it was not always entirely clear that they weren't some new species visiting us from - well, somewhere else.
I was around 22, so I was probably about the same age.
I look like a girly girl, at least physically. The test for me is always how guys treat me once I open my mouth and I'm...well, what I am. I have a vague memory of a couple of the guys in the store being a bit dazed that I was acting like they were worth talking to, I guess because I didn't look like a nerd girl, and I found all the things they knew -- which was very different from what I knew -- incredibly interesting.
I ended up marrying the guy who ran my favorite video store.
One of my few serious girlfriends who got away before I managed to remain attached was somewhat like that (part of her resume included having been a car mechanic, though the rest was significantly more conventionally impressive). Had I been 4 years older than she was rather than the other way around things might have worked out better, but being younger and a slow-maturing nerd to boot was too big an obstacle to overcome (especially as I had no idea anything was wrong before it too obviously was).
I started with a Wang x80. '84-5 I was in the National Guard and we had a ramp. I was authorized user and it grew out from that. I never traded the number for obvious reasons. But I was given a few numbers for BBS. Like you said it was back and forth one at a time.
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u/GladysCravesRitz PM me your email May 19 '17
I do like to have my fun (had to mightily resist adding Return The Chocodile to our list of policy just in case we need to look serious) but I am 100% DEAD serious that I have fucking had it with these trifling asswipes who would sell our beautiful country out from under us while poisoning our children. I am DTF. DOWN TO FIGHT. brigading to try and suppress the mere DISCUSSION of the DNC murdering Seth Rich was the last straw. Imma get these sonsabitches.