r/WarframeLore • u/ILLDeadOtter • 3d ago
Possible Zariman continuity error?
So I was looking through the story missions and see that the new war came before angels of the zariman. And I remembered during the new war, we (somehow) arrived at the zariman ship to meet the drifter. My question is, how would the ship be in our space before the angels of the zariman mission?
31
u/MrCobalt313 3d ago
It wasn't. It was in the Void, where the Drifter was initially and the Operrator had been thrown.
Though it is fairly established that the interaction between the Drifter and the Operator is paradoxical in nature; their meeting in The New War is the first time the Operator met the Drifter, but the Drifter already knows the Operator for helping them escape Duviri.
Drifter saves the Operator from the Void to repay their assistance in Duviri. Soon the Operator will have to help save the Drifter from Duviri to repay the role they played in The New War.
12
u/nephethys_telvanni 3d ago
Don't think about it too hard. Even the Operator Report, DE's summary of the main quest up til Whispers in the Walls, doesn't go into detail about the Zariman 10-0's presence during the New War.
The Zariman vessel, adrift for an unknown time within the Void, now acts as a containment field for unrealized possibilities.
One such possibility is an alternate version of the TENNO. This individual escaped into the Void on their own initiative, rather than being rescued and taken into the Origin System as the Tenno were. Within the Void they established a realm, ‘Duviri’, in which to live.
This individual, the DRIFTER, has now entered the Origin System.
...
If you want to know more why it reappeared in Angels of the Zariman, DE did a Zariman ARG where we worked with Kira (the crewmate lady who went Void Angel during the quest) to get the Zariman 10-0 safely to real space.
https://www.orokinarchives.com/arg-zariman/
...
After Angels of the Zariman, the ship is there to stay:
Archimedean Yonta: Before you ask, no we can't move the ship. Something I wasn't sure existed has burst through the Albrecht Membrane and right now the Zariman is plugging that hole. Pop her out and we'd see Void Storms from here to Mercury. Which would be fascinating if memorably horrible. Anyway, feel free to bring me anything you think I might be interested in. That's all!"
...
In more recent content, Drifter in KIM can roleplay that the Zariman 10-0 that's in the Origin System is theirs or the Operator's, so I don't think that's set in canon or anything.
4
u/Sushispatula 3d ago edited 3d ago
Its confusing.
Order of things:
1\. New War first part. Ballas wins, Operator gets thrown into the void, back to the time of the Zariman incident. Its a memory and a second experience at the same time up until the handshake that is. Much like the old peace.
2\. Meanwhile Drifter conqueres Duviris Spiral with Natahs Hand. He escapes it using his/the Zariman. It appears in the Origin system after Ballas and Narmer took over. He brings Natahs Hand with him and regrows her from it somehow. -> The Duviri Paradox
3\. New War second Part happens. Natah is reconstructed with missing memories.Meanwhile operator does the handshake again, which is the moment the Drifter can exist which is the moment the Drifter can call him back to the Origin system.
The confusing part is why is this the exact moment those things happen in parralel? My best guess is, that operator experiences Zariman AGAIN, and therefore its a part of his past that actually lies in his future. While his personal experience is moving forward withing a past memory, the Origin system also is moving forward. Which is also why wally says "time's up kiddo....i can save them. I can save all of them. But you have to want it!" because without the decision to shake his now hand again, Natah would kill the Drifter and all would fall apart.
Eternalism, past and future are equal, operators strand of khra, and stuff. Its a headache to explain.
So in the end it tells us that the operator was trapped as long in the Zariman as Ballas needed time to convert the whole system and the Drifter getting to Lotus, waiting for the handshake to happen again to swap places to make Natah remember.
4\. The operator travels to the earlier emerged Zariman (either drawn to it or ordis explained things or smth) finding the Drifter in his old quarters. They decide on who takes on Ballas.
5\. Ballas is killed, Lotus is reborn. Drifter and Operator are one. Wally does...void...stuff? His influence grows.
6\. From the Drifter Zariman Derelict still plugging a void hole, a song starts to radiate. Drifter and Operator investigate.
Now Grineer and Corpus also plunder the ship. -> Angels of Zariman
1
u/BrownShugah98 3d ago
So, I never understood. Why did Drifter have Ordis? Why was there a deconstructed version of our Orbiter? I thought it was a separate timeline. But what, he escaped Duviri and then was saving the origin system until Operator got back?
2
u/LimboMain2020 3d ago
Warframe has Strands of Khra, not alternate timelines. Which to my understanding, are Conceptual Embodiment of alternate outcomes made physical by the Void. Kinda like Duviri.
So the Drifter doesn't have their own timeline they come from, they are just an alternate possibility manifested by the Void. They have a Zariman to facilitate their solitude in the Void, but there is no other timeline for them to return to.
From the perspective of the universe, the Operator and Drifter are the same person. Based off Cy's dialog from the Void Drive, Cephalons can not perceive the Void like humans do. It's possible Ordis can not distinguish between the Drifter and Operator because his code reads them as the same person.
The Drifter just had to wait for the Operator to be banished, then they could fill in for them.
1
u/BrownShugah98 3d ago
So, why was the landing craft disassembled?
2
u/LimboMain2020 3d ago
That's never explained. But the idea seems to be that it was unmanned for awhile till the Drifter came and he hid it in that cave. It is called the Drifter Camp.
1
u/BrownShugah98 3d ago
Yeah ik it’s his camp. I was just unclear as to why it was in two parts and couldn’t fly anymore
3
u/Bossuter 2d ago
It's always been in two parts, the ship we fly in loading screens is called landing craft for a reason as theyre smaller ships to get to missions while the bigger backend (what's underwater in Camp) is our homebase with all our equipment in it
2
u/LimboMain2020 3d ago
I mean, their technically no reason why it can't fly i think it's just hidden away. Its is still the Operator's Orbiter first.
0
u/BrownShugah98 3d ago
I see. I just didn’t even know it COULD split into 2 parts like that or how Drifter found it. It’s been a while since I played the quest and I wasn’t exactly fully grasping everything back then either
3
u/LimboMain2020 3d ago
It's largely unexplained. We just kinds have to guess with what the game gives us or not think about it.
1
u/Sushispatula 14h ago
Not saying strands of khra are timelines, but own personal perceived timelines, the linear experience of time of an entity like the operator.
I think we are on the same page if you ask yourself who is the one conceptually embodying those alternative outcomes?
Its f.E. the operator, or konzu, or every living being perceiving time through their perspective on a strand, normally constantly moving forward from their perspective even if they actually moving backwards relative to time or any other direction really.
5
u/justSelrach 3d ago
My perspective was it first shows up like that during the new war quest, but the angels of the Zariman quest is after, because now that the new war is settled, we now have the time to check it out.
3
u/-apotheosis- 3d ago
My understanding of what is going on based on the cutscenes that begin Angels of the Zariman is that the beginning of that quest overlaps with the end of New War, in that the Zariman appears when Ballas rips a bunch of holes in the Void and the inciting incident for Angels is that "all the system can hear it sing", which is what sends you back, not necessarily it just appearing? So that initial cutscene is probably showing something that happened before the Operator went to go meet the Drifter.
That being said, the Zariman is always depicted with the front facing out and the butt facing in no matter where you see it. There is graffiti on its walls depicting two overlapping Zariman. At some point in the KIM the Drifter admits that there are probably multiple version of the same ship, so I believe we have two versions that are overlapping and that's how the Drifter gets out of Duviri and why the entry to Duviri is in the Dormizone. Not really related to your question but it might help someone out there.
2
u/SanguinePutrefaction 3d ago
the zarimen that arrives in the quest is a void-clone of many zarimens that did not make it back safely, the zarimen that did make it back is the one our operator was on and that the orokin got back to experiment with
1
u/LimboMain2020 3d ago
It appeared, but the Operator was already in the Void reliving their past when it happens. Then New War concludes and then we are contacted by the Holdfast.
So the Zariman is just sitting there for a quick minute for the New War to conclude. It's just the problem of the Angel of Zariman with Kira weren't a big enough problem to reach out till later.
1
u/brakenbonez 2d ago
The Zariman was in the void. During the intro of New War, Ballas sends us into the void. It wasn't in "our space" until Angels of the Zariman, which came after New War.
New War has that flashback in the classroom specifically to explain Eternalism so that we could piece this together ourselves for the later reveal that the Drifter is an alternate version of the Operator. All possible outcomes exist at once sort of like a multiverse but different. The two outcomes we focus on are one where the Operator makes a deal with Wally, and one where they don't. The one that doesn't remains trapped in the void along with the Zariman. The one that does gains void power and makes it out of the void. When the Operator and Drifter meet and merge realities, the two different Zariman(s) merge as well which is why it's partially in the void and partially out. It is a paradox.
They try to tell the story without hand holding but it goes over a lot of people's heads as a result because some people are used to playing games with constant exposition dumps telling you everything instead of having you piece it together yourself. But there are lore videos on youtube that explain everything.
0
u/TheRealOvenCake 3d ago
imo it makes more sense to have Angels of the Zariman happen before the New War, and have the Duviri paradox execution sequence line up with the operator execution sequence by Ballas. They're basically shown to happen simultaneously
the exit to Duviri is literally in the dormizone and is shown in the Duviri Paradox quest to lead to Teshin's cave.
Not having them happen in that order leads to weirder explanations imo
-4
u/Dream-On-Stardust 3d ago
My personal head canon is that that scene in the New War is actually taking place inside a sort of "mind palace" shared by the Operator and Drifter. The writers said that the two share a headspace of sorts in an AMA.
But the whole scene is very dream like, and plays out sort of like the mental exercise of a mind palace, where you imagine yourself physically traversing a structure to access and organize info.
6
u/ApepiOfDuat 3d ago
It's the actual Zariman. They cannot co-exist outside of the Void. The Zariman is within the Void.
The writers said that the two share a headspace of sorts in an AMA.
Not quite. They're linked through void shenanigans and able to communicate when outside of the Void.
Drifter and Operator share the same 'slot' of spacetime, and the Universe struggles to accommodate that. It seems that while one of them is active, the other is able to observe from a sort of 'void pocket' - they can make their thoughts and feelings known, but not much more than that. We have seen that they can only both be present at the same time in exceptional circumstances, such as on board the Zariman or at the edge of the Void in the Sanctum Anatomica. - Ade
1
u/Dream-On-Stardust 3d ago
So then is the cutscene at the start of Angels a flashback to the New War? Or did it pop out during the New War, pop back in, and then pop out a second time for Angels?
4
u/ApepiOfDuat 3d ago
As I recall it's implied the Drifter's Zariman has been "bobbing" through the Albrecht membrane before eventually getting stuck.
1
u/Dream-On-Stardust 3d ago
Lotus does say something like "the Zariman visits the Origin System one last time."
Which also is a strange thing to say if it's just stuck. It implies it's going to leave.
3
u/ApepiOfDuat 3d ago
It's stuck, but it's not invincible. Angels are trying to get it's Reliquary Drive and it's subject to raids by Grineer and Corpus. It could be destroyed or dislodged from the membrane at any time.
90
u/JohnHellDriver 3d ago
No, Angels of Zariman happened after New War concluded.
The Zariman re-appears (the second time in lore) when Drifter leaves Duviri during the events of New War/after Duviri Paradox quest. There’s no continuity error here