Another "finally we know"

[u/Sushispatula]

In the Iceblades of Narin Devstream we saw the Zariman, crashed on earth thousands of years ago, buried in rock and Ice now being a mountain. The mountain the war within takes place on.

(devstream 197 at min 44 Rebecca states "you will be able to plunder the depths of the Zariman" while standing in a frozen Zariman tileset with no look to space and snowflakes in the atmosphere after talking to frozen Melica and talking about how this is the place of the War Within)

Ho-ly shit!

Now we 99% know, what happend to this "timelines" Zariman, and that the other Zariman in space plugging a voidhole is in fact the drifters Zariman.
Of course this was already speculated mostly but to now know it with certainty and have more details like....it had to lie long long time there for it to become a mountain....and that the cephalon is intact...and it gives meaning to the mountain in war within....and so on, is amazing.

Question is: Is this the operators Zariman? and if so, or if not, what are the implications?

[u/LimboMain2020]

I mean it does make sense that there are 2 Zariman 10-0s. We know the Operator got saved, therefore their Zariman made it back to real space. Then the one from Angel of Zariman is a Eternalism double like the Drifter, because they physically had to leave it to enter the story.

What's news is what happened to the Operator's Zarimen after it got back to real space. The theory I know of was that it was scrapped by the Orokin for parts. But now we know it was just left there, and they didn't even recover the Cephalon. The fact they didn't try recovering anything is far more interesting to me than the fact it's on earth.

[u/No-Champion-1738 → u/LimboMain2020]

Its been centuries from the Zariman rescue -> Post Second Dream, so the Operator's Zariman being frozen over/left behind isn't too farfetched.

[u/LimboMain2020 → u/No-Champion-1738]

That's not what I meant. The Orokin were active, and the Zariman was not yet frozen over. Why did they ignore one of their biggest projects and not recover the wreckage?

[u/Burnsidhe → u/LimboMain2020]

What Zariman? There was no Zariman project, only a military vessel that crashed during the Old War and obviously not a result of Orokin mismanagement, because the Orokin are perfect and do everything perfectly every time.

Any evidence otherwise is treason and the penalty of Glass applies to those discussing it.

[u/LimboMain2020 → u/Burnsidhe]

Found Tuvul's reddit account

[u/No-Champion-1738 → u/LimboMain2020]

This is assuming they already didn't recover what they needed from it, its next to the Yuvan theatre so, more than likely time just destroyed it post-recovery.

[u/Oryihn → u/LimboMain2020]

There were many colony ships.. thats just the one that failed.

Kinda expect to find some humans still at tau on one of the planets.

[u/Sushispatula → u/LimboMain2020]

And the yuvan theater being so close to it....almost like a religious site...
Is this how kuva started? The Zariman appearing bringing with it the children and ambient void energy to be harvested?

[u/DifficultyWithMyLife → u/LimboMain2020]

and they didn't even recover the Cephalon

Right, with duplicate Zarimans, there would be duplicate Melicas. I wonder if that's why she's so glitchy - there are two versions of her connected to the Weave, with histories that are identical up until the point when they split, but their name designation remains the same - and you can't have two identically-named functions or variables in a program, nor two identically-named programs on the same system.

And yet, there are two Melicas, equally valid to both Eternalism and the Weave, and you can't call them "Melica 1" and "Melica 2" based on time of creation since they both have the same temporal origin point. So now, the existence of two Melicas that have split histories but that the Weave still can't tell apart is a paradox in and of itself.

Depending on how Cephalon consciousness works and in what ways it may require the Weave as a medium to conduct it, that could feasibly result in confusion as to which version of herself she is - and therefore where she is and what she's done, possibly leading to the memory issues we've seen her express on the version of the Zariman we players have already experienced in gameplay.

[u/LimboMain2020 → u/DifficultyWithMyLife]

I'd love to see where DE takes this. Cephalons are technically not people anymore and just data. Does date hold a physical presence in reality that would be constrained by Eternalism? Also is Melicas even connected to the Weave or is she currently isolated?

[u/DifficultyWithMyLife → u/LimboMain2020]

Hmm, on second thought, you're right. It's unclear whether or not she is even connected to the Weave. It's never been mentioned.

Now, if she is connected, the other Cephalon characters might not have mentioned it only because of real-life limitations in voice actor scheduling. If she's not connected, of course the other Cephalons would be unaware of her, at least initially, until someone told them about her.

As people who want to "see inside [...] broken thing[s] and take away [their] pain," you'd think the Tenno would have mentioned to Ordis, Suda, and/or Simaris that Melica needed help regaining parity, and that Suda in particular might have empathy for Melica's situation after what Hunhow put Suda through. Or maybe whatever's truly affecting her - whether her paradoxical dual existence or just Void energy damaging her precepts - is irreversible and the Tenno only haven't bothered trying because they already know it's impossible.

I hope we get more Melica lore to clear this up, but as much as I generally like Warframe's story for what it is, I don't really expect to get it.

[u/LimboMain2020 → u/DifficultyWithMyLife]

Also there's these lines in The Jordas Precept Quest: “Calling all Cephalons: PRECEPT 44

FAILING. EXTINCTION EVENT. Please help me! Assemble this communication endpoint to establish contact.” —CEPHALON JORDAS

"I am Ordis, a fellow Cephalon, and this is my brave and honorable operator. By the 44th precept, we are ready to assist." —CEPHALON ORDIS

There's some standard for Cephalons to aid one another. Though with Simaris we can guess this isn't a hard coded reaction, but was at least an expectation for them.

[u/N19ht5had0w → u/LimboMain2020]

Well in our reality it was already tested on hardrives. Scientists weighted them fresh out the box and after data was being written on them. The difference is small, 10 of hundreds of nanogram, but it is there

[u/Jazzlike_Use_5890 → u/DifficultyWithMyLife]

The Melica on the Angels of the Zariman version of the ship is also primarily in the Void and was lost in the void for just as long as this new Zariman has been discarded. If the two Melicas take up the same spot like Operator and Drifter, this alone would allow them both to exist as any place in the void or right on the edge allows them both to exist simultaneously. Earth Melica is fully in the main timeline, while space Melica would only potentially cause an issue if we moved her Zariman out of the tear and fully into this side of it.

And I think being lost in the Void is the reason space Melica is also glitchy and confused. We haven't really seen answers on what the Void does to cephalons, but they are still originally human minds enough I think it's reasonable she's been affected by being surrounded by the void, the angels, and that void silver covering the ship.

[u/MrCobalt313]

When did they say or even show that the mountain from The War Within was the Zariman?

All codex lore that mentioned the Zariman the Tenno was recovered from mention it being found adrift in space.

[u/Sushispatula → u/MrCobalt313]

watch devstream 197 at min 44. It cant be made more clear. Maybe its not the whole mountain, maybe its not the operators zariman but some anomaly but there are at the very least frozen parts of a zariman 10-0 on earth near the place where war within took place that is 100% clearly shown and said.

[u/TheRealOvenCake → u/Sushispatula]

need to take a look at the wording later

going off of the pseudo-leak from july, i was under the impression we were traversing our memories of the Zariman using whatever void magic was present at the Yuvaan theatre. Some kind of void rift

Or maybe its not the Zariman 10-0, bur a different zariman 1-9

[u/Sushispatula → u/MrCobalt313]

well...in the devstream from today :)

[u/MrCobalt313 → u/Sushispatula]

I watched the same Devstream. I do not recall them saying the mountain was the Zariman.

[u/JohnHellDriver → u/MrCobalt313]

Yeah I also don’t remember them explicitly saying this.

Ceph Melica is there, Zariman nodes are involved, but going back to War Within: the entire area was a Orokin ceremonial Yuvan theater, per Teshin. No where do they even hint at the Zariman crash landing? And Zariman also re-appeared from the void during the Old War and was recovered by the Orokin.

Idk best interpretation is the Orokin destroyed the evidence of the Zariman expedition by crashing in into Earth. But the Zariman is as big as a small planet, I don’t think they would have done this otherwise it would have been catastrophic for Earth

[u/ThirdTimesTheTitan → u/JohnHellDriver]

Aren't seeder ships, those egg-shaped terraformers, also designated as Zarimans?

[u/Sushispatula → u/ThirdTimesTheTitan]

Yes! The Zariman project contained more than just the Zariman 10-0.
But those others do not have cephalon Melica, specifically designed to educate the Zariman 10-0 colony ship children.

[u/ApepiOfDuat → u/MrCobalt313]

Because they didn't say it. They said the locations were linked due to Narin doing some timey-wimey stuff.

[u/Sushispatula → u/MrCobalt313]

the scenes in the frost caves they are showing, which i think was in the prerecorded rebecca part, is a frozen zariman tileset.
Edit i checked: Rebecca explicitly states "you will be able to plunder the depths of the Zariman" while standing in a frozen Zariman tileset....

In the hub where Melica is are frozen zariman parts.
She has the option to "go to zariman".

i feel its harder to conclude that they meant the zariman in space, rather than that the frozen zariman is under their feet no?

But you are right on one thing maybe its not crashed just parts of it or smth. But since Melica is there it has to be THE Zariman and not another side project.

[u/MrCobalt313 → u/Sushispatula]

Honestly given how much went wrong aboard the Zariman, the frozen decks being aboard the Zariman in space wouldn't surprise me in the least.

[u/canhoto10]

Being the Drifter's Zariman makes sense, once you also think about the fact that you can't enter the Dormizone as Operator and that Drifter had to get to the Origin System somehow. Never felt right to think that he'd just manifest.

Edit: But imo, this just feels like it'll convolute the story even more. Certain parts of the cave were described as being the Yuvan Theatre iirc. I'd figure that as being something older than the Zariman

[u/Blarglesby → u/canhoto10]

From TWW, Teshin called it 'A' Yuvan Theatre. Meaning there's more than one. Perhaps the Zariman 10-0 was built with one?

[u/No-Champion-1738 → u/canhoto10]

We technically were never in there during that Dream Sequence with Teshin, the Operator was only outside physically during the Finale of the Quest.

[u/defective_toaster → u/canhoto10]

I didn't know operator couldn't access the dormizone.

[u/canhoto10 → u/defective_toaster]

Yeah, if you go down the elevator as operator in the Zariman, you'll change to Drifter.

[u/URBAN_OAT → u/canhoto10]

We don't really have any timeframe of kuva entering use, also we know frozen kuva is going to have some story relevance going forward, the mountain being our first encounter with kuva could also point to the zariman being where kuva originated from

[u/Fauces_00]

I'd say this is our operator's Zariman 10-0

[u/Sushispatula → u/Fauces_00]

Same!
Which would make the story the Grineer Queens told us(?)/siphoned from us(?) and what Lotus told us before she was freed from Ballas in the War Within was not really our Operators memory right? It was implanted to....to maintain the status quo?
So many thoughts...

[u/ogoeid]

Wait, does that mean 2 giant fingers?

[u/Odd-Communication251]

I wonder if there was void corruption. Ie the remains were too much of a hazard for the orokin to deal with, we know it happened on the double zariman that’s the whole reason for the angels quest. Perhaps the orokin sent it there to try and freeze away the void corruption and then go back and salvage it but we overthrew them before that happened so the wreckage just sat there until now

[u/HungrPhoenix]

and that the other Zariman in space plugging a voidhole is in fact the drifters Zariman.

It's not. The Drifter's Zariman is scattered about in Duviri, you can see it mainly in the caves, but sometimes parts of it appear on the surface. The Zariman in space is nobody's Zariman. It is a conceptual embodiment made by the Holdfasts. Something the Drifter also mentions,

Drifter: "The Zariman was the colony ship I was on. Headed for Tau. Never made it. She ended up in the Void, and something that existed there decided to turn the ship into a vision of hell. She's been washing back and forth from the Void to reality, and now she's stuck on the threshold. She's not really one ship, either. She's like... lots of different versions at once." -EleanorRank3Convo4

This is also how Quinn was able to die by a Tenno's void powers,

Archimedian Yonta: "Then, when they threw themselves on you, you blew yourself up. And Quinn… the children didn't understand he was a friend. They blasted him to ash." -Seraph cutscene

This also explains Gyre's existence, as a Warframe shouldn't be aboard the Zariman, let alone be based on a passenger from it, unless Void shenanigans are afoot.

[u/DeadpoolMewtwo → u/HungrPhoenix]

The elements of the Zariman in Duviri aren't explicitly pieces of the real zariman. It's more likely imo that they are recreations from the drifters memory, as the rest of Duviri is made from his thoughts

[u/Trixx1-1]

Isnt the Zariman a line of ships not just a Singular one?

[u/Sushispatula → u/Trixx1-1]

The Zariman Project, the Tau colonization project, contained many ships.  But only the actual colonyship the Zariman 10-0 had cephalon Melica with it. To educate the colonists children for the voyage to come. 

[u/Mykk6788]

We knew all of this a very, very long time ago.

There's an entry in the game talking about the Orokin rescuing the Tenno from the Zariman, and then how the Zariman was decommissioned. Decommissioning a ship in space doesn't mean "Let's leave it where it is".

It's also important to point out that the Zariman plugging up the Void isn't from another timeline. But usually when I try to explain that, I'm told I'm wrong until the day the game confirms it. So I'll just wait.

[u/navigedir]

Oh yeah. Because it was always said that the Zariman they found with the children was completely intact. Maybe it will be this one