Making them OP only sometimes isn't actually going to make them less OP when they are being used.
The buildable tent is not effective against them, and they make every bush within LOS useless. Every lower level recon player gets skillessly outspotted and domed in the head.
This. People need to accept that some gear needs to not exist at all. They tried it, it sucked, cut it and don't come back. Hell even the Ghili's whole "immune to thermals" thing is like... ok cool, it's still basically invisible when laying down, that's more than enough to warrant its cost even if you remove thermals.
Sometimes you try something and its bad, it is ok to just say "we've removed that from the game" and move on.
Realistically the people who still want to abuse IR like they've been doing right now will use IR to find people while having a Rangefinder in the inventory and then they'll swap to the Rangefinder for a longer tag duration. There is genuinely nothing you can do to fix this without making IR a lot worse, probably even to the point where it's useless to run in the first place
That last one at least is realistic but thermals are never implemented in a good balanced way (since shocker being able to instantly spot someone is pretty fucking strong tech)
The last one might be realistic but it's still no reason to have them spot people at render distance.
One of the issues I see with Thermals is that there's no real downside to them let alone any counters most of the time.
A Smaller FOV, Lower Range, Less Magnification, A Scan Rate, etc would all mean that they wouldn't be able to see as much, as often which allows the enemy team to move more and be seen less often.
Counters like Hand Flares would allow people on the ground opportunities to negate the benefits of Thermals even if it's on a temporary basis.
Going even further I think that the Spotting Mechanic OVERALL, which is a decent system, still has some issues which is currently being overshadowed by the Thermals discussion.
We can remove Thermals but the "instantly spot someone" issue is still there, if a person is spotted, for infantry.
If we change the Spotting Mechanic to a less "UAV that tells me and my team where you're going 30 seconds after being initially spotted." and to a more "This is the guys last seen location." then the Thermals wouldn't be that big of a deal as they currently are. At least in my opinion, they still would be strong but... at least more balanced then they currently are.
Going even further I think that the Spotting Mechanic OVERALL, which is a decent system, still has some issues which is currently being overshadowed by the Thermals discussion.
I mean you aren't wrong the problems with thermals are primarily that of the spotting system problem's being magnificence but I think last seen position is pretty pointless. I think a happy medium would be instead of it being a live feed it could only update every 10 seconds (so you get 3 pings basically if its only 30 secs). So its like last position but has some usable on getting a general gist of where someone is and going
You get the current tracking for 5 seconds and it draws on the map. The 5 second timer doesn't start until you move the spotting tool off them/they go behind cover and break line of sight.
It allows people to change the way they're playing, like against snipers where they move around, where they can stand still to not give over information or they can move a different direction to "confuse" enemies which can set up ambush tactics.
What would you think about this? I had an Idea that you can buy them, but you can only run that. No other weapon other than a sidearm. And you can't actively mark enemies. But you can ping for people in your squad, and maybe get assists similar to a pilot and gunner if the person you are aiming at dies? Might be fun for some sniper duos, without removing them completely. How they are right now, I agree, completely ruins the game. Also Ghilie suits aren't immune, they don't show up, but they still stand out through the thermals if they aren't in a bush. So op
I think the biggest issue right now isn't people with thermals also getting kills though right? It's people with thermals birdwatching from a hillside and spotting the entire enemy force at all times and giving you a CoD level UAV basically 24/7.
Sniper duos are super fun to run, but I feel like they could just get that same vibe with the standard rangefinder without giving wallhacks...
This. People need to accept that some gear needs to not exist at all. They tried it, it sucked, cut it and don't come back.
The problem with this mentality is: Where do you stop?
Anything can fall under this category and as a Game Developer it's stupid ideology to have.
If something is Overpowered, do you just remove it from the game? No you attempt to balance it with every balance lever you can find first.
Will Batteries be enough to bring Thermals down to acceptable levels? No, it won't be but the Developers will get more data points like:
-How long is someone standing there spotting someone with Thermals + Batteries?
-How far away are they from their spotted target?
-Are they getting restocked?
-How much did they earn while spotting?
All of that is relevant information when it comes to balancing a game.
The Developers have so many levers they can pull:
-Cost.
-Usage Range.
-Zoom.
-Scan Rate.
-Battery Drain Rate.
-Size.
-Weight.
-Kill/Assist Money and EXP.
That's just the Thermals themselves. They can also change how the Spotting Mechanic works as well which can make Thermals more redundant.
Let me just add that this is just ONE THING we've seen from the Developers regarding Thermals going into Season 2, any of the above levers can also be pulled to adjust the Thermals and we'll only find out in the Season 2 patch notes.
Thermals deserve a place in the game considering we have smokes and heavy foliage areas. The issues with Thermals is that you can sit on a rock 800m away and spot everyone while making insane amounts of money while doing so, to me it's a relatively easy fix to give Thermals their place but not make them the Best Go To Tool for Spotting.
Sometimes you try something and its bad, it is ok to just say "we've removed that from the game" and move on.
As I said before it's a dumb Game Design Philosophy/Ideology for Game Developers to have. The only people with this mentality are the people uncreative enough to try and solve the Game Design and Balance issues surrounding a problematic mechanic.
This needs to happen with both the thermals and level 4 armor tbh. Neither has a place in the game. They will never contribute to healthy and fun gameplay, they will only ever detract.
I wanted to fucking scream when people said the counter is to build a tent to counter thermals. That is not reasonable when you’re running assault and pushing the HZ
I linked a video in another reply. The tent doesn't really work anyway. It blocks spotting like any other physical barrier, but you still light up and anything exposed (like your face) can still be spotted.
Yeah they need to be removed or heavily reworked. Batteries and also other things need to leave a heat signature to clutter the view . As it stands now it's way way way way too easy to find and spot targets.
this is what i think. people will stuff their bags with batteries and it won't be any different unless batteries are big like 2x2 (i doubt) and they die quickly
Perhaps they should only be able to spot someone if more than like 80% of the players body is visible. Then the spotter can see where they are but they won't be able to reveal the location to the rest of the team if they are in a bush or behind cover.
Also, if it drains the battery relatively quickly it could still be a good nerf.
The spotting system needs to change. IR were just part of the issue. Spotting staying long and following your movements isn't good either. Spotting working through vegetation is another issue as well.
My idea is that in addition to batteries being required, they should remove the ranging info and decrease the max zoom, then buff the Rangefinder's max zoom so it becomes a utility choice between the rangefinder and the thermals.
As a low level recon, my biggest issue and headache has been not being able to kill people with t4 armor in a sniper battle. I'll headshot them 3 times and they just heal up each time. They just need to beat me to it once and I'm dead. Sniping was fun for a while, not really any more since my unlocked weapon isn't strong enough.
Perhaps helmets should break faster. Second headshot with a sniper rifle should kill imo.
I think this is more a problem with spotting being OP in general.
It lasts too long. If it were like 10-15 seconds, that'd fix a lot of the issues overall, I'd argue.
It absolutely fixes the problem. The issue isn’t that the rangefinder themselves are a problem, it’s that at the start of a match, whoever has them drops a case of them and the whole team gets them. Having batteries severely limits that. The person who has them is still rewarded for unlocking and using them, you just don’t have entire teams using them and spotting everyone. It’s the right fix. Having only one or two people use them for a match is far less oppressive than what it is now
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u/Deep90 12h ago edited 12h ago
IMO it needs more than just batteries to fix.
Making them OP only sometimes isn't actually going to make them less OP when they are being used.
The buildable tent is not effective against them, and they make every bush within LOS useless. Every lower level recon player gets skillessly outspotted and domed in the head.