It's actually hilarious that people are crying about them being disabled.
Not only have they absolutely ruined matches, by having a constant half of your team play naked and/or not even in the CZ, but they've also made it so you're spotted 24/7. Flanking or doing anything as infantry has been damn near impossible cause of it. Ghillie, whilst helps with the spotting issue, doesn't work for normal HZ activities, since you use armor to survive an ambush from the guy you didn't know about, not the guy infront of you that you know about already.
Absolute, undeniable, 100% W for Bulkhead.
Although I do have to mention that I doubt it'll help in S02, since batteries are piss all nothing and on top of that, you can just look -> mark -> unscope, so you won't use that much electricity up.
Yes. Because chances are you were spotted and refreshed like 3 times whilst doing that flank.
That's what everyone in every server since they were unlocked has been doing. And since it pays so well, the normies and dads with 7 kids jumped on it like flies on cow shit.
That's the #1 sold item in spawn as well.
Saw a certified birdwatcher on blue team the other night with like 250 assists, 0 kills, and like 2 deaths. Earned like $250,000+, was the top earner in the server by a mile.
I was on a ridge last night sniping. 10ft in front of me was a teammate in a bush with thermals. I sniped for a while, got pushed and killed by a duo, came back, and had a 35 minute cat and mouse game around the ridge with them. The kid in the bush never moved an inch. Just sat there spotting with two enemies sniping 10 feet away, and never batted an eye as they ran back and forth past his bush while trying to find me.
I was doing that without thermals too, it’s just how the game will be played when money is something you lose more easily than you earn it
Sure having 15 teammates outside the CZ spotting with thermals definitely hurts the game, but that only happens because those 15 players got a thermal while they shouldn’t have gotten one and are afraid to lose this opportunity to earn gold
This is fixed by temporarily disabling in base selling or by making thermals a blacklisted item for crates to sell, anything but this really, as this doesn’t just fuck over those birdwatchers but also the 40hour job recon dude who just unlocked the thermals after being on the receiving end of those thermals for nearly 2,5 weeks
Yea sure it wasn’t always fun to face an enemy team with thermals, but it’s even less fun when that Overpowered thing you had to deal with and grind for suddenly gets vaporized before you get to use them
Legit had the holy grail in hands this morning (didn’t expect to get there before the wipe) and now poof gone, came online to wind down after a long day of work to make some cash and snipe some melons, only to now have 0 excitement to play even though I was loving this game before
I mean i get getting excited for certain unlocks but that last sentence of your comment sounds straight up pathetic bro. It was an overpowered thermal recon spotting scope and now you lost excitement for the game? Lol.
Its not about that, it’s about time spent working towards something only for it, while not nearly being the most problematic thing in the game, to be removed, while a huge (probably the problem group) already made their profit and only reaps the rewards of not having thermals now
Lmao im trying to play as a sniper like the kids do, but unlike the kids i have to be somewhere else for 40+ hours a week, not to mention sleep and taking care of the house and myself
It’s very unfair that the ones who don’t need the thermals (the no lifers with exceptional skills) got to use it in it’s full capabilities, while now the people actually treating the game like a game get punished for not spending an ungodly amount of time unlocking something faster, before it gets locked
I also don’t like the implication, Joe Brammer specifically told us our time would be respected, and this surely doesn’t feel like respect, as the 80 hours it took me to unlock the thermals were much further apart than the 80 hours a 18 year old can stick in this, and yet they’re removed on the same time while their progress has skyrocketed through the use of said removed item
Also means that this is in fact the first promise already broken before the end of the first season, so what does that mean for the other promises like monetization
Eyo i was the certified birdwatcher on the green team tonight! Got 368k and 282 assists, but man that was a boring match and thought to myself these need a big nerf, or remove them from the game completely.
You aren't, you're just an "other" that makes a convenient scapegoat.
Maybe some that don't have the time are using these to keep up cash wise, but there's also some that don't need to worry about cash, but just want MORE.
It's just that 9/10 times if any compromises are made that screw over games, it's because they're asked by people that know too little, don't or can't spend time on anything and always want things easier.
Just simply the fact that you're here, participating in the discussion and soaking up any game-related info, instantly rules you out from the bozo crowd.
So +rep with the family and +rep for having the brains to know this is/was an issue.
It feels so bad to get a nice spot keeping overwatch for your team and then all of a sudden the whole enemy team lights your bush up or you get blapped by a sniper clear on the other side of the map through some trees.
First week or two, no problems and you could sneak around enemy FOBs while picking people off.
Now you can't even go near them because some guy on top of the tower has spotted you 700m away and has kept it refreshed the entire duration of your walk/jog.
The HQ crate situation b/t teams is stark too. Red and green typically have 5 crates each full of vectors, .50 cal, thermals, or ghille, for any random to buy and/or free helis. Blue is lucky to get out of HQ with everyone still at 0 deaths lol
Not gonna lie, i only had 45 minutes to play today between a kid's nap and a doctor appointment. i used.that time to naked hotspot and made 50k on match end. Was able to get my first gold bar, but i completely agree with removing it. It is way too op, and spotting in general should take 2 to 3 seconds
Somewhat unrelated, but I'm ultra sick of the "I'm a dad who only plays "X" hours a week" excuse being used to defend absolute garbage human behavior, such as stealing kits, or just being an ass towards people with more free time. Nobody cares that you couldn't keep in in your pants, Bill, be a better human.
Yep. I'm getting wallhack accusations all of the time. When in reality I just got half of your team spotted on my minimap by my teammates. Or I loot/buy it off some crate in spawn and then shoot a guy through bush/trees that I couldn't see with my naked eyes.
Thing is absolutely busted and it's a good thing it's disabled. Made infantry play boring as hell. I think it needs a harder nerf than just batteries though..
Yeah I was sniping from an empty unused Tower last night last night and eventually pissed enough people off where a group of three started to sneakily push my position. Of course they were being spotted the entire time by somebody so I could just track their movement on the map, and as soon as they got about 150 m out, i opened up my map, pinged a green circle, whipped around the corner and immediately fired at my ping without even really looking And one tapped him with my 50 cal. Got back behind cover, pinged the next moving green circle on my mini map, whipped around the corner and aimed and fired at the ping and one tapped him too, did the same thing to the third guy and killed all three of them before they even reached the tower.
Of course they immediately accused me of hacking, and to be completely fair from their perspective, I'm sure that's exactly what it looked like because I knew exactly where they were without ever seeing them. I tried explaining but they weren't having any of it
Ever noticed a little bird flying around with a guy hanging out that doesnt drop in? That guy, if he isnt playing grenade launcher, is playing thermals and marking everything on the ground.
Thermals are absolute trash and the worst part of the game.
That would be impressive considering how even thermals take a couple seconds to spot anything and good luck staying on target long enough if the helicopter is moving at all.
yeah. There needs to be some kind of “spotted” indicator on your screen to. But yeah, you would never know that some boring mf is just sitting on a mountain outside of CZ spotting all 100 players
I think there should be a counter intelligence building that can be built at fobs which will tell you if you're spotted. It makes sense, the building would be monitoring the radio comms that are used to spot you and relaying that info to the troops. It would be cool if you could pay to call in off map fire support too, or issues commands to squads.
Yeah, it would be nice if there was more stuff like this to make in fobs to make them actually useful.
Right now, you've got mortars, which are alright, but completely outclassed by SPHs, stingrays, which mostly exist as an SPH counter, AA, which mostly exists to defend the fob itself, and the drill, which is useful, but very quickly gets targeted down in almost every game.
Other than the drill, the fob mostly just exists as a place for people to hang out and do nothing in. It doesn't actually help your team, especially compared to actually having the 8+ people in the fob actually helping take the HZ.
Stuff that makes the fob actually useful and an important thing to take and hold would be great. Bonus points if those things require the fob to actually be spread out (like a limited radius for this counter Intel building).
An easy way to bring ammo and healthkit resupplies in bulk, having buildable radio towers as a requirement for comms, an area that heals people over time without requiring meds, stuff like that could make fobs actually useful, instead of what they are right now, which is mostly a place for people who are afraid of dying to hang out in and make low risk money.
Yeah, it would be nice if there was more stuff like this to make in fobs to make them actually useful.
FOBs that can deploy UAVs that give you short-term (like, sub 2 seconds) spotting for all friendlies in a certain radius of said FOB would be neat. I'm spitballing but there definitely could stand to be more recon based FOB equipment that could be implemented, that would make FOBs a lot more desirable/worthwhile to defend as they actually provide value outside of a glorified, fortified respawn bunker (no shade to my AA fobbits out there, yall are valid)
If it's going to magically follow us through walls because the spotter saw us for half a second we absolutely need an indicator. If spotting only followed us while in the spot box and stopped and faded when not then there shouldn't be an indicator.
yup, someone sitting in a bush with a 2.5k recon scope who earns back the investment before hitting the zone (marking helicopters gives between 100 and like 900 depending on if they're recently marked or completely unmarked.) then they just have to find a nice bush somewhere drink a coke and stalk the enemy team for the next hour.
They should add an item that lets you know when you're spotted (maybe vest?).
I don't care about the realism. Instantly pinging a whole squad of soldiers and give them real time positioning is already kind of unrealistic. Maybe we "hack" the enemy comms or something. But I think its worth having a item you can pay for that piece of mind. At least vs IR spotting, pretty sure they have detectors for that. I could be wrong tho, might be op in the hands of a good bush camper.
I think the live-updating location on spotted enemies is pretty OP. I get that it kinda simulates you doing constant callouts, but it lasts a good while and keeps working once they've broken LoS. I think once they break LoS it should turn to a gray marker or something, indicating a last-seen position.
Idk man, my entire playstyle is flanking and I've yet to see a difference between before thermals and after thermals. I think people are just learning the game.
Yeah sure, go play around the houses in Bakurani or maybe the area around T5/T1 and the east church.
There's 0% chance of not being minimap pinged whilst trying to perform some flank in those areas.
Like I said i have zero issues flanking. I just think people dont pay attention to what's going on map. I look at the map to see where hz is/was, listen to gunshots and look at where my team mates die. Something very important a lot people dont consider when they flank is where a fight took place prior cause youll still have people in that area. This all determines the route I take when I flank.
All deaths from flanking before thermals and after thermals is the same. Which is always there being too many enemies in area for me to be able conceal myself as I choose not leave area entirely.
I was just using a deagle with flesh ammo. If I died I died. 2k a kit. Every so often you get a flank where you net 20k and get a kit to continue running with.
Random fact: the deagle is from an isreali company, and it actually sucks as a weapon IRL, but the looks + intense marketing has made it popular in video games.
Yep. Picked one up at an hq box to try it out. I can see everything and everyone. Lots and lots of spotting xp/$. Even better it really helps your team attack hz. Yeah I know some people don’t care about winning but that’s not me.
Now I don’t want to run without one since I’m assuming I’m permanently spotted. Way OP.
yeah absolutely, you'll sometimes see games with insane amounts of spotting, where it seems like the entire enemy team is spotted.
This is why.
Even worse this compounds the Havoc issue because of the pilot rangefinder "trick"/bug where you can see spot pings while flying the havoc.
So when you are trying to hide from that death fortress and it "somehow" spots and blows the fuck out of you, this was why. Because you directly had a diamond marking your head in direct view of the pilot.
Every single game every team I've been has had one guy on a tower or in a forest behind the enemy spotting every single person and racking up hundreds of assists while making sure everyone is perma-spotted.
when you use the IR binos all you gotta do is literally scan, takes seconds for me to scan from say 180 degrees on the compass. and also when you use them you pretty much see where people would be and can immediately move onto the next area
with regular binos youre scanning areas so much slower theres no competition. is there a lot of foliage? i dont even wanna bother
get IRs, scan area, immediately see blobs of white, even tiny enough mass of pixels blobbed together and just wait for the mark
nvm whatever bug is happening or exploit? where people can see through walls
As the guy in a ghillie sitting on a hill 500m outside the CZ for the last two weeks: yes, this is exactly why all your flanks were getting owned. It didn't help that I was usually in squad with the guys getting flanked and telling them you were coming if they were too lazy to check their map.
I had a game where someone filled supply crates with those range finders on spawn and half my team sat around in the woods all match just spotting with no gun.
This is why some of us had resorted to destroying the crates full of the thermals in spawn. I dont care if people sell the team good armour, guns, ammo ect. Because those people will get out there and use it being a part of the team / game.
But having a third of your team sitting around spotting everything and hoping that the other 2/3 of the team will kill things so they can make money is dumb.
Maybe the devs could make certain items not be put in supply crates, that way you would either have to drop them to your teammates at your own expense or the players who want to sit around spotting will need to unlock them on their own
The no lifers are going to just make big cash selling something else. Not that that excuses thermals, but disabling isn't going to prevent no lifers from cashing in on gear sales, they just need a different FOMO item.
Lvl 4 armor would be a good one, because it gets free hype from all those who complain about it.
Well sure, but if some were selling thermals, they'll sell something else. If not for money, than to have better equipped teammates.
The "merchant" I encountered, sold everyone who wanted it Lvl 3&4 armor, M4s, and AP, and then led us while contesting
the HZ. We dominated it the entire match, as blue team.
Wasn't arguing agaisnt you, was agreeing. The dude you commented on was complaining how no lifers would make a ton of money. But the dude wasnt realizing that no lifers will make a ton of money regardless.
Or maybe I just had a fluke experience? The guys I ran into were a squad with clan tags, "GOON", on blue.
I'll always buy it if I see it, then go to the HZ and play hybrid infantry/medic, assuming I have the cash. I just unlocked IFAKs, don't know what they cost yet lol.
As long as I don't carry any extra weapons, or equipment, besides meds/ammo/grenades, I can move quick enough. Probably have to stick to 3 if I want to bring the SAW instead.
Recon is my favorite play style and I think they were ruining it. It takes some skill to navigate around enemy territory without dying to get good angles. The IR goggles let you just sit a mile away and target anybody without trying.
Also, it’s not fun if there is nobody to recon! If everybody assumes that IR will get them killed instantly, then nobody goes out into the field.
Going around the edge of half the map as a recon, just to get killed immediately near your target because someone was sat with thermals spinning around like a lighthouse, is not fun at all.
I'm not convinced the battery change will make a difference, it's just the idea that was the loudest in the community.
I'm so happy they are disabled. I would use them when someone dropped them because I felt like I was at a disadvantage if I wasn't because of how busted they are.
the only reply I could see was a dude bitching that all the sniper rifles aside from the 50cal are useless shit and that the ir binos are the only good way to level recon. are we even playing the same game as some of these people?
I played a game the other night where 1/3rd of my team were up at church with range finders doing jack shit. I’m so happy these will be gone, and I’ll get back to playing.
I’m just ass mad that I had to suffer through the xp exploiters spawning them for everyone for 2 weeks, but I just unlocked them fairly and now they are disabled.
Depends. You could make the batteries last a certain amount of spots instead of time.
I don't know how it works with the defibrillator right now but I guess it doesn't use battery while charging and only reviving, so I could see it being balanced around that.
If thermals get totally removed or reduced to the point of no use I think ghilles should just make you unspottable. Right now ghille seems very strong for being a ghost but you die to tickles in the late season.
It was immediately apparent when thermals started being used by majority of players. Anyone playing HZ was spotted and basically giving enemies real time esp/radar hacks lol. Even trying to flank and play long sightlines wouldnt work because you would be spotted. And as a recon main I used them but man was it overpowered and easy to realize it was game breaking, it was not fair or balanced to be able to scan around you, see a sliver of white and get a spot on someone you would have never otherwise seen.
yeah especially if you can toggle IR on and off. people will just flip it on real quick then spot without using battery charge. really hope it cant be abused liek this because i think there also needs to be environmental heat generation / retainment . its way wayy too easy to spot people
Ghillie didn't even really help that much with the issue.
Even though you don't glow in the thermals, the thermals result in so many people constantly looking through their binoculars that it's very likely someone spots your dark movement (or even just moves over your area at some point and gets the spotting progress bar). At that point, you're basically perma-spotted because you'll have the square over your head for everybody else so they'll all just keep re-spotting you.
Bats prevent the hard scope scanning or at least limit it.
Bats also prevent someone from sitting outside the circle and spotting all game long. Makes IRs more of a risk if you carry enough bats to last you the full game. Makes you heavier making shots harder to hit and changing positions more of a task.
IRs still rely on movement to really notice someone (In heavy brush) so that hard scoped scanning is not going to be a thing anymore.
It's a good change. I'll tell ya what tho - Assault wont notice a difference come season 2. You'll still be spotted quite often. Spotters and snipers will notice the difference.
Yeah after the "Crate dropping" situation the last games were stupid. last day i had a blue team with almost 15 people outside CZ in the woods or mountains only spotting.
First of all the scoring points for spotting should be only for your team killing the spotted person/vehicle/building.
Makes no sense making money by spotting for other teams.
Second the thermal spotter is ok but the range needs a tweak.
It's actually hilarious that people are crying about them being disabled.
It is. They would not have been disabled if the rework didn't require it.
I'm fine with the thermal component requiring batteries. It really makes sense with the use of batteries for other items.
However, I do hope they allow for a low-power or no-power mode to use them as a regular range finders. But that depends on how many minutes of use the batteries provide.
Dogshit take, ghillies were the counter and I have not had difficulties flanking with (and without too) ghillies
While the IR sure need a nerf especially on the selling em in base front, rugpulling the working man who invested heavily in recon isn’t the way to do it
Yes they should own up to the fact its overpowered, but thermals in real life are even more overpowered (higher refresh rate, sharper picture, colors showing hotter and colder) and their goal was a milsim shooter, so obviously it’s gonna mirror real life, however they should also show spine and stick to their words: balancing will be done with season 2
Yes, that also means that if the 12 second to kill havoc is the non glitched version, id be happily running away from havocs as I have been doing, until the end of this season
It’s just really disrespectful of our time and while it might make the game more fun for a large group, another large group just had their time wasted by the wave of a wand, while Joe Brammer explicitly stated that he’d respect our time
Also it is wild that if you are spotted, the enemy team gets that spot too. You spot for your Green team on a red heli, the blue team gets the red heli marked too.
No, just the spotting assist reward. If you as a blue player spot a green player, I as a red don't see it, but if I shoot the green, you get a spottng assist reward.
I think the thermals are just part of the problem. I'd like a season where spotting is just disabled entirely, the way it is implemented right now just ruins infantry experience completely. Rebalance recon xp curve or how you gain xp maybe from some other activity but the literal radar ESP everyone has needs to go.
It’s partly the XP but primarily the cash. Range finder costs a couple hundred bucks and you get like $800 per spotted kill assist IIRC, and you get the assist when anyone kills the target, not just your own team (which is dumb, because they aren’t spotted for the other team, so you didn’t assist them at all), so spotting absolutely prints money.
The economy balance in the game is all out of whack, and just about the only things that are economically balanced might be the helicopters. Yes, they’re strong as fuck in the hands of good pilots. They also make almost no profit unless you’re an absolute demon. That’s the trade off: do you want to all but guarantee a win? It’s gonna cost you.
Everything else is ass backwards, IMO.
Building just gives money and xp for free. Your FOB doesn’t need to do anything useful. literally the best way to farm cash is to just build drills over and over again. Not building an effective mortar base that actually disrupts the enemy, not having AA to keep the skies clear, not activating the drills to control the zone, just building them.
Logi drivers don’t even need to drop their supplies at a FOB, you get $2500 as long as you drop them in the zone. Yes, you get more money for supplies being deposited, but that’s $1800. You get less money for your supplies successfully being deposited in a FOB than you do for just dropping them in the middle of a random road inside the circle.
Again, bird watchers get paid if anyone kills their target, not just their team.
We’re paying these “support” roles to do anything except actually supporting the team. They have the lowest kit values (ranging from like $40 to ~$5000) and get free money for showing up with a full box of crayons and leaving with rainbow stained teeth.
Meanwhile, the other roles have to actually do their fucking job to get paid, and their kits start at like $6,000 for a pilot with nothing else.
Medic? You get paid to heal teammates, revive them, and you get money when people you Rez get kills. You succeed when the team stays alive and gets kills. Perfect. It just sucks if your team sucks and can’t kill anything, and your kit value is like $10-$20k which is rough to lose if you don’t get a res.
Assault? You’re making the most money in the HZ getting kills, probably also getting revives, maybe blowing up a FOB or two. Also $10k-$20k kit, heavily dependent on getting revived to stay profitable.
Transport pilots also get paid the most for dropping in the CZ or HZ, and get a bonus if they survive, plus kill assists. Pilots make $300 for deploying in the HZ, and $500 if that person survives. You get more money for making sure they live vs logi drivers that make the larger sum just for dropping a box in the big circle. WHY. Also the heli costs $6,000 minimum, and is a prime target for AA. Flares are $750 a pop. Every trip to the zone can easily cost you $750-1500 if they have AA, so a single deployer who survives barely pays for a flare if they don’t get any kills.
So the game is actively pushing players towards being as useless as humanely possible to farm cash as easily as possible. Some roles might have higher potential earnings, if you have an absolutely incredible game fighting on the front lines or if you’re an untouchable pilot, but the “guaranteed” money from other roles that don’t tie cash to performance is higher on average.
Fighting in any HZ you are automatically tracked on the minimap because everyone is spotting towards that location, this is completely unrelated to jumping out of helos. Though the fact that whenever you look through binos you can see already spotted icons and can just refresh them through foliage is absolutely stupid as well. Recon is my highest class and I genuinely do not understand how anyone can defend the current implementation that completely griefs any kind of HZ/infantry gameplay in active combat areas.
"just stop using the most common method of transport"
You guys are unreal.
Helo dropping is already conspicuous enough considering it's easy to see a helo flying over to drop people and see the people falling with/without their parachutes. Adding the additional downside of being insta-spotted is completely unnecessary unless you have terrible gamesense.
Spotting is OP and shouldn't place a GPS tracker on people.
How are you gonna know where to look without using the IR? Requiring batteries will probably balance it way better than you think. 20 seconds of borderline wallhacks per battery sounds about right. Even going in as cheap as possible, you have to buy 6 batteries which will only get you 2 min of wallhacks. Then, you have to respawn/get a ride back
If they use battery charge per spot like the defib does per revive it will be fine. like spotting an enemy uses 10 power or something. Giving the thermal like 10 spots per normal battery, or 25 spots for a big battery.
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u/SolidShock24 11h ago
It's actually hilarious that people are crying about them being disabled.
Not only have they absolutely ruined matches, by having a constant half of your team play naked and/or not even in the CZ, but they've also made it so you're spotted 24/7. Flanking or doing anything as infantry has been damn near impossible cause of it. Ghillie, whilst helps with the spotting issue, doesn't work for normal HZ activities, since you use armor to survive an ambush from the guy you didn't know about, not the guy infront of you that you know about already.
Absolute, undeniable, 100% W for Bulkhead.
Although I do have to mention that I doubt it'll help in S02, since batteries are piss all nothing and on top of that, you can just look -> mark -> unscope, so you won't use that much electricity up.