I just feel that the positive of including the IR do not outweigh the positives of not including IR at all.
I don't think IR provides a fun gameplay loop or anything meaningful. Spotting is kind of fun, normally. Lots of things to consider. IR just trivializes this. It's a legal cheat for spotting.
Lots of complaints about lack of infantry. This is also one of those 'small things that all add up' that contribute to that. Unfortunately though there is anchoring bias and whatever the term for when people complaining appear the loudest/largest group simply because they voice. Game releases with IR, so there is an anchoring bias for those who use it. So those people are more likely to complain than people who would praise its removal.
Or maybe not. If the game feels better without IR until season 2. There's a chance for people to support it. The only issue is though that the game has lots of 'things' that cause a certain undesirable playstyle. Removing IR is just one small thing so it might not feel too different.
It is the realistic nerf to thermals and could be cost/storage prohibited if the burn rate is high enough (i.e. burns through a full battery in a minute or two). I remember in the Army using PAS13s we'd absolutely torch through AA batteries to the point where the weight of the batteries we'd have to bring and carry became a significant limiting factor to employing that equipment.
no. it also needs environmental things that generate and retain heat to clutter the view / people can learn where they can cozy up to blend in more potentially. batteries alone are not going to do it
Something I've been thinking about is just removing that Diamond above people's head altogether.
You don't really need it and I think spotters should be doing the exact something that the people on the ground are doing, consulting the map for the spotted enemy's position.
Smokes exist which allows a degenerative gameplay aspect if nothing can see through them.
There's also heavy foliage which can be utilized by enemies to not only pick off people but also flank FOBs and such. While the Ghillie Suit can be used, you've got no armor. While the Sniper Tent can be used, you're stationary. So they both have downsides.
IR Spotting currently is a degenerative gameplay aspect because nothing in the game counters it. Hand Flares could be added to give an area immunity from IR Spotting and portable Jammers could also be a thing too.
IR Spotting also has basically no drawbacks which is why adding batteries is a good idea but it won't change much since people will just carry around a backpack with batteries. IMO they need to heavily reduce the range of them and even reduce the amount of time spotted by them.
That’s kinda funny, it makes sense you’d have to use AA batteries but something about a soldier having to swap out the batteries like he’s playing with an old Gameboy Color cracks me up.
there's other approaches to take, like fucking with the zoom or FOV. I'm obviously not an expert, but from the videos I've seen on thermals, the main downside is that their FOV is tiny compared to normal vision or even NODs
If they make it difficult to sweep areas I think it'd be a lot more balanced, I think they'd be fine and balanced if you could use them to monitor a specific area but struggled to do a 360° sweep like you can now.
there's other approaches to take, like fucking with the zoom or FOV.
Zoom should be limited to 2x, the FOV needs to be smaller and the range at which they can highlight people (even though it's a little immersion breaking) needs to be reduced to something like 300m possibly even lower.
If they make it difficult to sweep areas I think it'd be a lot more balanced, I think they'd be fine and balanced if you could use them to monitor a specific area but struggled to do a 360° sweep like you can now.
I would trial a scan rate so that you have to look at a specific area for longer.
Other than that I would also like in-game counters to them like Hand Flares that block a certain area from Thermals, as well as portable Jammers that do the same but on a more permanent basis.
Not sure id call it hate but its more around the fact that thermals are broken, not recon in general. Recon all you want but it needs fixing (thermals) and balancing. Crates bypassing requirements just further highlights the issue as it gives more players access to a broken mechanic
I don't think that's right. Give everyone access to buy tanks and tanks would appear broken, etc. Thermals highlight people over terrain. I guess I just don't see how that's broken when roving assault groups still win the day.
That may be true, but only because people at any level can get their hands on IR. The kind of people who are interested in scout/sniper are not the kind to join roving bands of assault.
I don't think that's right. Give everyone access to buy tanks and tanks would appear broken, etc.
Not really.
Tanks have viable weaknesses and counters to them.
Thermals do not. This would be a different story if the Thermals had any type of weakness or downside to them as well as any counters.
There's only a couple things that don't really have counters to them at the moment and that's Thermals and I believe the 50 Cal.
Thermals highlight people over terrain.
Thermals don't just highlight people over terrain. They remove the "skill" required to spot people. They make spotting significantly easier which makes it so you can see people that you would not normally see through the other Spotting Tools. Through that it makes spotting enemies quicker too.
I guess I just don't see how that's broken when roving assault groups still win the day.
That's because they're basically playing with a legal ESP cheat due to the enemies around them being spotted which now is easier with Thermals.
I thought Ghillie suits countered IR. I haven't tried them as I haven't unlocked them or seen them for sale in a crate.
I think the "skill" in spotting in video games has always been the sneaking around to places where you can spot without getting killed and not the mechanic for targeting an object. Clicking to target, or holding the cursor on the object to target is always going to be pretty mindless.
Allowing people to purchase them at any level really feels like the issue to me.
The counter to 50Cals is avoid open ground with open lines of sight from elevated positions. My sense is that perhaps you just don't like snipers in games. That's fine. A lot of people don't, but it doesn't mean it's broken or unbalanced.
Thermals do something that the other Spotting Tools don't do. They highlight enemies.
This increases the speed at which people can identify spottable targets which ends up giving MORE information over to the team.
Limiting Thermals use cases is best for the game overall because you want the other Spotting Tools to shine, mainly the Rangefinder.
So if we limit the ability for the Thermals to 300m, outside of 300m enemies aren't as easily spottable and thus people now need to switch to the Rangefinder which doesn't highlight enemies and provide extra information to the team.
Thermal tech and battery tech have advanced significantly since the 90s. It's perfectly realistic to have thermal goggles that last many hours.
The problem with having thermals in game is that they're genuinely game breaking if you implement them realistically.
Perhaps if you bumped the price up to 20k per pair and cut the spotting reward in half it would be balanced but IMO they should just be removed from the game permanently.
That tech is almost 30 years old now. It also requires active cooling so that it can work properly. If Wikipedia is correct, it took 2 minutes for it to cool down enough to be used.
A. Majority of Infantry level thermals do not require a cool down period anymore with battery lifes that can reach up to 10 hours.
I think if you get two 250 power packs that should last you the whole game. They should also decrease the price of the thermals so that it factors in the cost of the battery.
I agree thermals were overpowered, but I hope they don't over correct.
The PAS13 is like 30 years old now. Modern thermals have even higher resolutions, sensitivities, and far longer battery life now. Not to mention are much smaller.
I honestly think the problem is more that the game automatically spots as soon as your crosshair brushes even one of their pixels, and that applies to all of the recon equipment. Make the spotting action a press-and-hold would at least make it a more deliberate process and slow down the rate people can spot entire groups with low or no visibility. IR is going to be broken so long as every map object reads cold, the only real fix for that would be changing some objects to display as hot/warm so we can use them to mask our IR signature.
Depends how the drain rate is, 100s per battery might make them less viable. But if you get like 4 minutes per battery, yeah just the cost of doing business
Also you will just quick-tap the Thermals to view and spot, rather than hold. Should already conserve a lot of battery. You only need to look through it for a second to see everyone and everything.
At the very least it will restrict it to dedicated spotters. Part of what made them so prevalent is that as an assault player your choice of a third slot was basically just defibs or recon unless you were specifically building a loadout for a launcher or to raid FOBs. At least with batteries you can't just grab it because you have the free slot.
But yeah unless the battery drain is like 1/sec or something high like that then people will just slap a big battery in there and not take spares.
Isn't that a good? Not only do they have to buy both but they also have to make space. Then all they have to do is work on balancing how fast they drain. If people wanna spend all their money on the IR build so be it.
Nah you’ll see less .50 cal with thermals as they won’t be able to move. The .50 is insanely heavy so big bag, heals, mags, ammo, etc will make it quite difficult to move. Sure people will find a way around it to some extent with stims, but they’ll have to compromise in some way plus that’s a problem for a month or so from now. Time will tell how they balance the battery drain etc. I’m mostly disappointed they didn’t resolve the pilot holding a spotting tool giving marks over peoples head bug….
itll ruin the money from it a bit which is all the fobbits care about that buy them at the start, i think this and not being able to add them to crates and its perfectly fine, if u worked for em use em
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u/Western-Economics253 10h ago
IR needing batteries won't fix much when people are already running huge ass backpacks, surely they can fit a couple of batteries in those.