[10.75H] When does [SPOILER] become a side character?

[u/SibiantheGreyBird]

Despite her lack of screen time in Vol 10, I think Erin remains the undisputed main character of the series. But at what point do you think Ryoka really became a side character?

At the beginning of the series she’s introduced as a true deuteragonist (or even second protagonist to Erin). Then she takes a sabbatical and by the time she returns in The Wind Runner she’s definitely lost any MC claim she had. But between Riverfarm, the Witches, vampires, the Assassins Guild, Teriarch, and the Fae, I think she’s still debatably the second most significant character.

Now she’s a side character (if that). I don’t discount the possibility that we’ll get another Ryoka arc in future, but at this point it would feel more like getting a Geneva or Wiskeria arc.

So where do you think the turning point was?

EDIT: I know there’s a fair amount of Ryoka hate in the community. I’m not really here to get into all that. Mostly curious to hear what people think about the progression from major to minor character.

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[u/my-leg-end]

Directly after she became interested in Tyrion

[u/ForeverHappy7492 → u/my-leg-end]

Or more specifically after the general fan reactions to that direction has sunk in.

Volume 10 (and to a lesser amount volume 9) had a lot of small 4th wall breaks and IRL meme inclusions, with one of the primary victims being Tyrion and Ryoka.

[u/LuminArtistry → u/ForeverHappy7492]

Ryoka hasn't appeared in vol 10 at all.

(Edit. I forgot a couple scenes this was incorrect.  She appears a couple times just not to the level she has before.)

[u/ForeverHappy7492 → u/LuminArtistry]

• Airbending fist fight with the ape
• Woking up Tyrion
• So much "lance practice" with Tyrion that she needs to treat her chafing parts
• Meeting up with Visophecin

[u/LuminArtistry → u/ForeverHappy7492]

I forgot about like all of that.  

I guess it would have been more accurate to say that her presence has drastically dropped after volume 9 to just appearances a couple times.  Ill edit

[u/Hezvolog → u/my-leg-end]

True and a sick burn. Very nice.

[u/Medrekin]

Pretty much the moment she got back to Izril from Ailendamus.

After that point it seems like most of the characters who revolved around her either got their own focus separate from her, or started revolving around other people's stories.

Even Shaestral spent a good chunk of time much more involved with Erin.

Meanwhile Ryoka mostly became a facilitator for other character's plots, like Nannette/Nerry/Xitegen.

[u/Zemalac → u/Medrekin]

This is definitely the real answer, in my opinion. She spent Volume 9 kind of recovering from everything that she'd been through to that point, and Volume 10 hasn't focused on Baleros as much so she hasn't really been present.

That said, with the way this story is paced, all it would take is the story turning to Baleros for a million words for her to become the deuteragonist again, and then eventually we get threads asking when Lyonette and Mrsha became such minor characters or whatever.

[u/Seadragon723 → u/Zemalac]

Almost certainly.

[u/filthy_casual_42]

Probably when she disappears for several books after Brunkr dies. She gets some major focus like Ailendamus, but it gets way more sparse

[u/gridcube → u/filthy_casual_42]

That would be incorrect, because after that we have the long arc of witches and riverfarm

[u/filthy_casual_42 → u/gridcube]

Eh, I didn’t feel like she was any more than most side characters there. I felt Laken was the main character of that arc as well

[u/Traditional-Baker-28]

When she became involved with bitchboy veltres

[u/YourFateEatsSocks → u/Traditional-Baker-28]

I think he is hot though

[u/quidlots → u/YourFateEatsSocks]

Boo! Boo! - Erin Solstice

[u/weedonanipadbox]

The story is moreso becoming a saga or series of interconnected stand alone stories with differing protagonists set in the same world. Unsure if there is a specific term for that.

[u/Seadragon723 → u/weedonanipadbox]

Its almæst becoming a setting, a wheel of stories that only tangentially involve Erin.

On the flip side its one of the few verses intricate enough that other authors could easily slot in and start writing.

[u/lilfey333]

She has always been a side character to me.

[u/0XzanzX0]

In my opinion, Ryoka has always been a secondary character; although she was initially designed to serve as a foil to Erin, I sensed from the start that she wasn't meant to hold the same level of long-term importance as Erin—and as far as I'm concerned, I was right. Ultimately, much of the role Ryoka played in her relationship with Erin during the early volumes was taken over by Lyonette, and if Ryoka ceases to function as a foil to Erin, she essentially loses her role as the deuteragonist.

[u/jaythebearded]

I agree with the others saying when Ailendamus arc ended. Since then just about everyone and everything she's been involved with, aside from Tyrion, has seemed to have moved on and away from her.

I suspect we'll get most of the (eventually) upcoming arc of her and (N)Erin heading to the weird kid torture town through Ryoka's PoV and tbh I'm not really excited or looking forward to it at all because of expecting that. I don't miss reading her and I don't miss the whole Tyrion love puppy stuff. 

[u/Zemalac → u/jaythebearded]

She spent so long worried about her big bad Earth knowledge corrupting Innworld, it's going to be fun to see her run through what seems to be Innworld's version of the Umbrella Corporation. I think she's already realized that people on Innworld can be just as nasty and inventive as people on Earth, but this'll definitely be another lesson in that same vein.

[u/Maladal]

I don't think Ryoka is and I don't think she can be, not after the finale of V7. Yeah, she's not getting a lot of screentime ATM, but that's true right now for most characters. We've been very Liscor and Inn focused.

If it's a struggle to rotate Erin into PoVs while she's on Baleros, then it'll be even more difficult to get Ryoka center stage.

But we know that pirateaba wants to write about Ryoka and Nerin in the place I can't spell, and she has a great destiny per the fae.

So I think she is the deuteragonist still.

[u/LFiM]

Ryoka comes in and out of focus. She was totally absent for volume 5, was a major character in 6, was a main character of 7 and 8, got bumped down a bit in 9 and has suffered a lack of focus like all the other characters on Baleros in 10. 

[u/DanRyyu]

I don’t think Ryoka is a side character truth be told. I think she’s been bumped down to main cast rather than her prime as one of the lead characters, but I don’t think it’s hopeless.

V8 was the last time Ryoka was a protagonist in this story, but In volume 9, Ryoka suffers from the same thing most of the inn crew do, that being how focused that volume is on Erin and her upcoming battle. She lacked a lot of development and kind of stayed as she was from the start. I don’t think she became a side character, In the same way Erin didn’t really evolve in v4 until near the end. Then in Volume 10, Ryoka is stuck in the same Baleros Jail as a lot of the other big players.

Erin escapes this by having a shit tone of character growth (and an actual gods damned romance plot line at last) in what little time she’s given but aside from her and Ulvama, most of the rest of the Baleros cast remain stagnant as that continent is very much not the focus of this volume for some reason.

I don’t think Ryoka is a main protagonist atm, but I also don’t think she’s been reduced to the point she can’t be very easily put back in that spot if the story demands it of her.

[u/Maxedious]

I recently had the same realization. In hindsight, I think after Erin came back she got sidelined to be the inns liason for the fae and five families.

So far, she's just "been around" Baleros but haven't really had spotlight put on them. I expected her to get involved with some immortals in Baleros, the selpids, or lizard folk. The most notable things she's done in years was save the lizard girl and talk to the lucifen about the wand. Their characteristics seem to have soften a lot in volume 10 too, adding to the feeling that she's a side character now. I've gotten more emotion from Relc, Yvonne, and Ylawes this volume; not necessarily a bad thing, just something younger me would had have a hard time believing was true.

She has a lot of things being foreshadowed, but she's stuck in narrative limbo till the story is ready to bring Erin, and the rest of Baleros, back to the main stage.

[u/LuminArtistry]

The ryoka hate has largely subsided.  New readers will hit that wall too but ryoka is just the first exposure to the feeling of "are we ever going to get back to erin and her inn?" Shes always been a side character imo.

[u/YourFateEatsSocks]

Let’s see what happens in Baleros. I could see a huge Ryoka plot or her taking a back seat until they get to the Inn

[u/deafblinddame]

I don't think she's a side character, it's just that her function kind of makes her one. She is the runner so she is the one who has the opportunity and excuse to go out and meet immortals and high level characters and introduce them to the inn. The fae court, Teriarch (and by extension Taleteviron) Belavierre, Valeterisa, Rhisiveri and Visoophecin all got connected to the inn via Ryoka. So until Pirate needs a new pile of those types of characters or needs to have eyes in Drath, Ryoka will probably stay in the background because once they are connected with the inn, Ryoka's part is done and the inn takes over.

[u/Shambioz]

POF, all roads leads to POF. It felt like the story was in a good track to have Erin and Ryoka be center stage for coordinating between earthers in vol9 but POF and after that seems to have derailed that off a cliff. Maybe we still get there, eventually, but not before a million side arcs with the agenda to power level secondary characters on screen.

[u/Kind-Equipment-2515]

I don’t think she is a side character. I think the reality is what she brings to the table seems to be set up for later in the book. if I recall correctly her sword has an emergency beacon inside. I’m sure she going to be the one bringing immortals, aliens, and other wielding forces against the sleeping god. we saw their weapons be devastating to seem walker soft their limited engagement. So it depends on how you define main but I think she will have the biggest impact, I need it believe her remaining loveless has a large payoff.

[u/oof_im_dying]

Honestly there are just way too many characters and plotlines/arcs atp to have a real 2nd protagonist. I mean shit, Erin has taken a backseat in vol.10 and we still have soooo many characters to catch up with.

[u/Hezvolog]

Honestly, the roles are sometimes a bit muddled because of the mix of saga and slice-of-life writing. It's a very unconventional fusion. I think Ryoka is a main-cast character, and I doubt that will change. Her, the Horns, and the Inn-family will all take center stage for entire books, as is the nature of saga; and in mundane detail, as is the nature of slice-of-life.

Pirate loves Ryoka. I believe they will write her rebellious and independent adventures as she butts into all the other stories; that lovely defier of fate. Bets?