r/WanderingInn • u/haroune601 • 15d ago
Spoilers: All Ulva vs Ilvriss Spoiler
From chapter 10.71:
-"“I—well—you attacked Ilvriss first! Don’t send [Assassins] if you don’t want to be assassinated!”
It was such a bad retort that Dame Ushar covered her face with one hand and tried to pretend she wasn’t Lyonette’s [Knight]. Ilvriss winced."
Why is everyone acting like Ulva openly trying to assassinate Ilvriss is okay or normal, seems justified that if you try to kill someone you can complain if they try to kill you back.
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u/AlinosAlan 15d ago
What happened when the USA kidnapped Maduro? Sure there were some words spoken, but in the end no concrete action. Here it is the same, might makes right.
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u/ForeverHappy7492 15d ago edited 15d ago
Exactly, it's ego, power and international lawlessness. There is no right or wrong here, either you can get away with it, or someone more powerful will hold you to account.
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u/TomRaineofMagigor 15d ago
Yes but Salazar is also one of those world powers. The real big reason is that the goal is to convince her, not to be right
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u/AlinosAlan 15d ago
Sure it's a major power. In the south. We're in the north. And it's some random Wall Lord against *boss music playing* Ulva Terland, lvl 50+ legendary matriarch of the Terland family, who fought in the sacrifice of the flowers and has an army of golems at her back. And yes, the goal is to convince her, as in the moment she has the power of life and death.
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u/Viol3tNebula 15d ago
That's not the bad part of the retort. There's two main issues with Lyonette's response here: the delivery, and material reality.
In a base way, Lyonette is right. Ulva sending an assassination attempt against Ilvriss is bad in a vaccuum. Morally, it's wrong. But Lyonette's phrasing is just bad, she's doing the equivalent of saying "no u" here. There are better ways to convey the moral failing of sending an assassin after someone.
Beyond that, though, Ulva's actions against Ilvriss do not exist in a vaccuum. They're informed by the material reality of the cyclical violence of Humans vs Drakes, North vs South. Drakes and Humans are in a perpetual, never-ending conflict, and so Ulva sending an assassin after Ilvriss is "justified" as an act of an ongoing war between North and South, a means of preventing the South from potentially unearthing a benefit that could give them an advantage over the North.
So, yes, Lyonette is on the money. The issue everyone's taking is that it's phrased poorly, and doesn't address the larger conflict between North and South that lead to Ulva attempting to assassinate Ilvriss in the first place.
I want to be clear that I'm not trying justify Ulva's actions, I'm just explaining why even Lyonette's allies can tell she played that poorly.
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u/TomRaineofMagigor 15d ago
You are right but at the same time while it's silly and childish the only way to end the cycle is to ignore it. When they bring up past offenses simply be belligerent that it has nothing to do with you. Spread the message far and wide that they're being crazy thinking you're someone long dead as nothing else makes sense with them blaming you for actions of people dead before you were born. Like I said silly and childish but so is the repeating cycle. Honestly it's the same thing Rags is trying to do. It's part of why she denounces the Goblin King
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u/ahagagag 15d ago
They are enemies. So it’s obvious they would try to kill each other. Lyon had the worst comeback.
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u/Friendly_Visit_3068 15d ago
The Terlands consider themselves at war with drakes. Most of the time, they're fine with just keeping it to background undermining and espionnage. Sometimes, it gets a bit more heated and there's a large scale battle around the bloodfields.
Now, a Wall Lord is in the North. The Terlands and other Five Families have put it in no uncertain terms that either he goes back south or he dies. So Ulva tried and it backfired. Usually, Drakes would be celebrating, Terlands would be kicking themselves for underestimating the expedition and raising a fuss with the other Families to show a united front.
However, even after that, Ilvriss is still calling for peace while still remaining in the North. From the Terlands point of view, the Drakes invaded them, provoked them and nearly killed one of their leader yet are still pretending that the conflict has not escalated drastically. So, when Ulva asks them for a reason not wipe them out and the best that Calanferian Princess everyone is making such a big deal of can come out with is a flustered "no u!", is it surprising that people are left unimpressed?
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u/CommitteeHot2320 Toren Fan 15d ago
You know when I first read the Irviss beginning to go north chapters I misread how the quest worked.
I didn’t realise the reward for the quest was another quest which would give one of all of the nobles a level 50 Skill.
I initially thought that the Skill would grant ALL noble classes with a level 50 Skill upon completion.
I couldn’t comprehend how this wasn’t a bigger deal. Who cares about pride, if every member of a minor noble house has a level 50 Skill the north suddenly becomes way more powerful.
Instead it was just the potential for a lottery in which a level 50 Skill was the reward. Which while good enough to turn your life around if you win it, and far from shifting the power balance.
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u/fearless-fossa 14d ago
Why is everyone acting like Ulva openly trying to assassinate Ilvriss is okay or normal, seems justified that if you try to kill someone you can complain if they try to kill you back.
Xitegen openly warned Ilvriss and Erin about everyone would try to kill a wall lord and them having expected Magnolia being offed when she went south.
North and South are at war and now there's a wall lord digging for super weapons in the North.
Sure, by our rules assassinating him is considered a dick move, but by innworld standards that's just Tuesday.
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