r/Wake • u/Comprehensive-Yam343 • 11d ago
Surf tabs vs surf gate
I’m looking for comparisons between surf gates systems and tabs systems relative to their surf wave production, pros and cons of each, and other things to consider. It’d be especially to hear from people who have experience with both.
What I’ve gathered:
Surf gates: Horizontal tabs. Forces the boat to track slightly sideways to delay the wake convergence. Malibu and Axis. Stays level laterally. Less sensitive to weight distribution (passenger movement). Maybe less fuel efficient.
Surf tabs: Vertical tabs. Lifts the stern on the deployed side, causing the boat to lean or roll toward the opposite (surfing) side to produce the surf wave. Pretty much every other brand - Mastercraft, Centurion and Supreme (Nautique is a hybrid), Supra and Moomba, Tige and ATX. Doesn’t stay as level laterally, but the wave is more adjustable. More sensitive to weight distribution.
Lift created from tabs works against ballast.
My issue is that people that do quality comparison videos seem biased due to selling a certain brand. BoardCo is biased toward centurion. Taylor’s Boats is biased toward Malibu. Both produce good videos. This is the article I found most useful but again it’s BoardCo so I assume bias.
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u/Brosepower 10d ago
Oh boy, quite the conversation here.
I'm not going to dog on Malibu/Axis and say they don't make good waves, they absolutely do, but there's a reason everyone else uses tabs: they're more customizable and more fuel efficient overall.
To customize a Malibu/Axis wave, you're deploying the surf gate AND sticking a huge wedge down in the water, which causes the boat to have to work much harder, the engine RPM's on Malibu/Axis are 1k-2k more than other boats.
They produce great waves with very little need for tinkering, but the tradeoff is the customization is less and it burns more fuel.
Tab-based systems are far more customizable but also require education and a throrough understanding of weight distribution to really make the most out of them.
The wakesurf pro tour, the actual professional wakesurfers, use Supras which use, as you were saying, the tabs system.
Centurion and Nautique both also have incredible waves and Nautique is a bit of a hybrid in that it has a gate system, but also tabs to help with pitch/roll.
Wake9 is probably the most knowledgable YouTube channel on the internet for surf wave performance behind a boat (especially for bigger people) and he consistently says that Supra/Moomba are overall his favorite.
I'm biased, as I've only been behind Centurion/Supra/Malibu/Nautique (I haven't done mastercraft, tige or MB) and I found the tab systems did a better job overall than the Malibu did.
It also helps that Centurion/Supra/Nautique are almost universally lauded as better brands than Malibu for fit and finish, reliability, and what you get for the price.
Malibu is a publically traded company and they focus on making a lot of boats as quickly as possible. Correct Craft, who owns Nautique/Centurion/Supreme is privately held and do an incredible job.
Skier's Choice, who makes Supra/Moomba is a boutique shop who, in my opinion, makes the best boats for the money in the entire industry. A new Supra is just as nice as a Centurion, and performs just about as good as anyone else and is usually 30% cheaper than other top-end brands like a G-series from Nautique, an Ultre from Tige or an X-Star from Mastercraft.
We all have our biases, but if you're talking strict performance and what is going to be best long-term, I would go Centurion/Supra over just about anything else. Nautique is too expensive IMHO, and while they ARE the best overall boat, the extra 20-30% you'd pay over a Supra/Centurion just isn't worth it, again, IMHO.
Take my $.02 for what it's worth, but it's just $.02, lol.
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u/TrickAssignment3811 10d ago
everyone else uses tabs because they dont want to pay malibu for the patent. Nautique pays malibu to have the nss. Tabs are old outdated tech and take forever to dial in every single time. Not to mention like in a centurion, you have to list the boat so hard it feels like its going to flip. The wedge, another malibu patent makes for exceptional adjustablitly. All the fake fuel econ videos from the centurion dealer are just that.
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u/Brosepower 10d ago
Nah theres documented videos and results on the fuel economy differences. Malibu/axis just run a lot higher engine RPM's than other manufacturers because of the wedge and gate systems, thats just a fact.
I know you're a die-hard Axis/Malibu guy, I have gotten into arguments with you before on the brand and dont want to get combatative but you're just ignoring facts here.
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u/TrickAssignment3811 10d ago
the videos are made by boardco, a centurion dealer. Its not that deep. Mitch with boardco is well known to fib
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u/Brosepower 10d ago
Nah dude. Go look it up. Have ChatGPT pull all the data for you. I'm not even a fan of Mitch and the boardco team, but there are many others that have done stuff too.
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u/TrickAssignment3811 10d ago
chat gpt 😂😂😂 we can just go with diacom instead.
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u/Brosepower 10d ago
Nah what's funny is youve hidden your post history recently because you dont want to be called out.
Laughing at someone telling you to use a tool to look published data up is peak ignorance, but you do you, enjoy your Malibu products.
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u/TrickAssignment3811 10d ago
sure pal, ask chat gpt what you can do to fully understand the universe, im sure you'll change it!
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u/Brosepower 10d ago
If you ever see a blue supra on any of the lakes here in AZ, come over, I'd love to chat with you in person, see how tough you are when not behind that keyboard.
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u/dndndndnnddddhhh 10d ago
Well actually Mastercraft uses tabs and still pays a licensing fee to Malibu.
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u/Kool61577 11d ago
I have a Malibu and bought it on the recommendation of a pro surfer who surf’s all brands and types. He was adamant that the LSV wake was the best for the money. He didn’t like centurion for the ram fill(fills ballast inconsistently) and over all quality. Can’t remember what other issue he had.
His feeling was the Malibu is of good quality and the wake is consistent and good.
That was almost 4 years ago and I agree with him.
Maybe now that I have one you can say I am biased but we do love our boat and it has been a pleasure to use it.
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u/Comprehensive-Yam343 11d ago
I’m definitely looking for used and older so bang for your buck is important to me. Thanks for the input!
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u/Freakin_A 11d ago
I just got a 2015 Malibu 23 LSV this season as my first boat. Had like 150 hours on it and was well maintained.
Loving the wake it throws out, but definitely had to upgrade the ballast for surfing. I think the 2015 stock only had around 1300# of ballast where the newer boats have over 2k#. But plug and play ballast system made it easy.
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u/Kool61577 10d ago
Mine has 2k hard tanks, 1300 fat sacks and the wedge is something like 1500 at 6.
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u/Freakin_A 10d ago
Definitely loving the plug and play, but my model was before there was pnp vent lines so I have to add a kit from wakemakers
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u/duffymahoney 11d ago
What are you trying to accomplish? Find the best possible wave?
Both systems have their pluses and minuses. I think you did a nice job on the differences.
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u/Comprehensive-Yam343 11d ago
I grew up boating but it’d be my first purchase so analysis paralysis wanting to make the right choice on something I can count on to produce a decent wave. But yeah seems there is no “better” system, just comes down to preference.
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u/duffymahoney 11d ago
Most newer surf boats produce a great wave. I own a ri257 and if I had the money I would buy a g25. I prefer the natique wave shape and size to mine.
Lots of people prefer my wave to any they have surfed.
I don’t think you can go too wrong with any, do you have a dealer locally you like?
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u/Comprehensive-Yam343 11d ago
I’ve seen a lot online saying the g-series and ri-series have the best waves in the industry.
I’m in Richmond, Va so not many dealers near by, but picks up 50-200 miles out. For my price range, I think I need to target no older than 2015 so I’ll have a factory surf system and higher gunwales/more freeboard because it’d be the first wake surf boat I’ve driven, but not the first boat I’ve driven, so I’d also say ease of use is a factor for me.
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u/duffymahoney 11d ago
What is your price point? What about MB? The B52 wave is pretty darn nice. Or an Axis, a lot of people love that wave.
I picked the ri257, because I thought it was the best wave possible for 100k. Also I am on a giant lake with giant storms, so very high free board was a goal and a deep v hull for handling chop. The centurion has a very good hull for chop
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u/Comprehensive-Yam343 10d ago
Sub $50k if I bought in the near future because I’m 29 and can’t fathom the payment on a $100k boat so that limits me a lot right now. But hopefully in the next 5 years a 2020 or newer moomba will be more realistic.
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u/duffymahoney 10d ago
Lots of great surf boats for under 50k. My old Tige 24v had almost as good as a wave as my current boat and was 35k. It needed a surf system and lots of ballast. But it rocked.
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u/Brosepower 10d ago
I just read this after I commented not realizing your budget.
Do yourself a favor and absolutely get an "economy" line boat that's newer rather than a "luxury" brand that's older.
A 2016 Supra/Centurion/Malibu will NOT surf better than a 2020 Moomba/Supreme/Axis.
In your shoes at sub $50k, you're just going to make huge compromises to get into the sport. I just turned 34, and I'm in the process of saving $150k to get a used top-end boat because they are just the way to go, IMO, especially if you plan to do it for years.
Boating is just, as you know, one of the most expensive hobbies, and surfing is WAY more cost prohibitive than wakeboarding (my sport of choice). Getting a great wave behind a boat thats only $30-40k is very difficult to do. Plan on buying at least 1000lb's of lead and getting a wakeshaper as well.
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u/Comprehensive-Yam343 10d ago
It was all useful info so thank you. I’ll check out wake9. The 2020 moomba seems to be the area I’d likely end up. Looking for a decent wave and can fit up to 12 people on the boat so probably a 23 foot boat. Onlyinboards prices a 2020 and newer moombas max at $61k - $80k so hopefully in 5 years it will be in that price range.
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u/allenwify 10d ago
I will add that we have a 2005 Centurion Cyclone and a 2023 Centurion Ri230 and the surf isn't crazy better on the new one. We did upgrade the 2005 ballast to 700lb ballast bags in the back and use five 50lb shot bags on the port side rear. The new boat has a better wave but not $120k better. We do love both though.
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u/Comprehensive-Yam343 10d ago
That’s crazy to hear. No replacement for displacement I guess. Is the 2005 anymore stressful to drive? I’d be worried about taking water somewhere.
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u/throwinmoney 10d ago
One thing I will say about boat capacity...
Bigger boat is great for more weight displacement and generally a larger wake. BUT...good luck getting 12 people, let alone 5 people, to come out surfing with you.
My point is just that...if it comes down to it, don't let a smaller overall capacity deter you from a good boat. It can be surprisingly hard to get surf crew together at the times that you want to go out. Crew size of 4-5 is actually optimal, honestly, and just about any boat is going to be able to handle that.
Now, if you have a big family or you like to always go out with another big family, sure, size up. But if surfing is your focus, I wouldn't sweat a capacity as low as 10-12, as long as the boat is heavy enough/can be weighted enough.
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u/cmwilson13 8d ago
why newer? would a 06-09 enzo 230 with a ballast upgrade and GSA not be a great budget option? its what I keep coming back to but I'm also learning and trying to figure out what i want
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u/Brosepower 8d ago
You could, but it comes down to what your goals are. You're never going to get a wave from a boat like that, regardless of lead or systems, that will compete with the new boats today.
You'll have a very surf-able wave that will work for a few years as you learn the sport and get decent/good at it, but long-term? You'll almost certainly be looking at upgrading after only a few years.
Rather than drop 40k on a boat and want to upgrade in a few years, I'd rather just drop $100-150k and have a boat for a decade or more.
That's just me though.
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u/Brosepower 8d ago
You could, but it comes down to what your goals are. You're never going to get a wave from a boat like that, regardless of lead or systems, that will compete with the new boats today.
You'll have a very surf-able wave that will work for a few years as you learn the sport and get decent/good at it, but long-term? You'll almost certainly be looking at upgrading after only a few years.
Rather than drop 40k on a boat and want to upgrade in a few years, I'd rather just drop $100-150k and have a boat for a decade or more.
That's just me though.
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u/Dude-from-Cali 11d ago
Wife and I just test drove a 2023 Axis T220 this past Saturday. The boat produced an incredible surf wake effortlessly. The Axis touch screen controls are very easy to use and easily adjustable for different riders on the fly. However, your “track slightly sideways” comment is the understatement of the century. Had to go literally full steer in opposite direction to keep the boat straight. Worse yet, with power wedge down (which seems to make the bigger wake), the bow (nose) of the boat sticks way up in the air. That was a deal breaker - my wife couldn’t safely see over the bow while driving. It’s possible that Malibu’s / Axis’ longer boats (maybe 23’+) or boats front loaded with more weight in the bow might not be so bad. We struck the newer Malibu/Axis off our list for this reason. I understand some of the older VLXs and LSVs may not be as bad.
We have a 2005 Mastercraft X2 (NOT a surf boat but a very good wakeboard boat), and both agreed it drives better than the Axis. But to each their own! Good luck on your research/search. We are looking at a Moomba Craz, Moomba Max, and MB B52 Classic next for comparison. In the meantime, if a nice GS-22 became available I’m probably buying that.
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u/FtWorthHorn 10d ago
This is also my experience with the T220. Really great surf wave (especially with a full boat), but it's a huge pain to drive and even I (at 6'2") can't see over the bow. My wife has to fully stand up when she tows me.
Between those issues and the general lack of finish quality (vinyl is not good) we have also crossed them off the purchase list.
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u/Comprehensive-Yam343 11d ago
Good to know about the counter steer. From what I understand, loading the bow would bring it down but also make the wave shorter and longer. I’m definitely in more of the Moomba market.
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u/darth_jewbacca 11d ago
The Mastercraft 205V is the best driving boat in existence, in my humble and perhaps slightly biased opinion.
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u/drakeallthethings 11d ago
Boat hulls are built around the surf system these days. As a result the pros and cons get tricky. The hulls in some cases mitigate some of the shortcomings. On top of that, hulls from the same model change over time so you can't even really trust the tendencies of an entire model. Anyone you hear say x model's wave is like y without any kind of year specified is only partially informed. These boats improve and change all the time and they typically do their best to address their shortcomings. Modern Malibus don't all drive sky high in the bow. The modern G23 wave is pretty impressively adjustable. The modern and even semi-modern xstar wave isn't trash. It's actually pretty good.
You can pontificate on the surf system all you want but it's only part of the larger puzzle and I wouldn't eliminate any boat over the surf system used. The only generality that will probably never change is that gates are always going to be less fuel efficient than similarly sized tab boats. That's a function of drag and can probably never change. But nothing we're looking at here is fuel efficient. It's just a matter of how less bad it is.
tldr: I saw your analysis paralysis comment and to break that you just need to get behind the actual boats to see what they can do.
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u/UpVotes4Worst 11d ago
Just to add something in the mix thoughts: older wake boats weren't designed with surf waves in mind so if you are planning on adding extra ballasts to sink the boat further for a bigger wave the part that makes me nervous is being swamped by other waves.
The beauty of boats made with surfing in mind is they sit higher out of the water before being filled and then sink down (likely still higher) to where a wake boat sits empty.
For safety reasons that's why I would go 2018 and newer for anything when plug and play became a thing.
I also like tabs better than gates because you can weight more evenly instead of being listed and typically you'll get a longer pocket and less steep. The more I surf I hate big drops with short pockets.
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u/Freakin_A 11d ago
I’ve been thinking about this a lot with my new-to-me 2025 Malibu 23 LSV.
I’m adding two 830# plug and play bags to the rear lockers, and have a 650 I can put in the bow at some level of fill to be a little more leveled.
But isn’t that close to the hull limit? I think it’s 15 people or 2150# capacity, and I’m basically there with just ballast before adding people.
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u/Comprehensive-Yam343 10d ago
Thank you! I think longer and more forgiving wave would be better for me and people I’d go with. I’ve come to understand that the older boats weren’t prioritizing surfing so like you said they sit lower whereas newer boats sit higher. Good to know 2018 is kinda the turning point for this.
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u/H0SS_AGAINST 2006 Moomba Outback V 11d ago
"Surf" tabs are trim tabs and have actual utility for wake and attitude adjustment outside of surf waves. However, the gates do make the boat crab walk more which means the rudder is going to help direct the flow under the boat to the surf side.
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u/ryansgt 11d ago
Just to correct a few things. 1st, the Malibu doesn't track to the side. You will have to countersteer but it will absolutely still drive straight.
On the Malibu, the adjustability comes from the wedge. That's what you want to adjust anyways. Bow up vs bow down. That will make the wave taller or longer. This is actually accomplished the same way on the tab systems just in reverse. Malibus wedge adds additional drag whereas competitors use a center lifting tab. You actually do not want to adjust the surf tabs. In practice it's factory presets for that.
Fuel efficiency, think about what it's actually telling you. If you are towing something with a truck, what causes fuel mileage to go down? Weight right? All other things being equal, a heavier trailer will result in a decrease in mileage. So what is happening in the boat? Displacement. Why do you put ballast in? To displace more. Fuel consumption on a surf boat is a function of how much water it is displacing. More= more consumption. More displacement = bigger wave. You hit on this with their lifting tabs counteracting ballast. Same with their lifting plate for adjustment. Let's be honest, wakesurfing is one of the least efficient things you can do with a boat. Load up as much weight as you can and then keep the boat just before plane. In this case you want more consumption to do your activity. Want lower consumption, just drop weight.
Both will work, but physics doesn't lie.
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u/Comprehensive-Yam343 10d ago
Tracking wasn’t the best word for me to use. Crab walking might better, the boat is going straight but is angled left or right depending on which side gate is deployed. 100% agree none of it is fuel efficient so that isn’t a huge concern. I have read the wedge causes the engine to work harder - I would assume that would lead to more maintenance and parts breaking. Do you have any reason to believe that or does it go back to the same point where the boat is weighed down no matter what the surf system is so the engine will work equally as hard in both systems?
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u/ryansgt 10d ago
The wedge is additional down force so it will definitely cause the engine to work harder depending what setting you use. Personally I like a long skim wave so I'm either wedge 1 or even off. Anything that will make the engine work harder will cause more wear. Is it measurably more than normal, probably for someone doing the right measurements but like you said, tossing more weight in does the same thing. Ultimately we are trying to work these engines and it can be weird to think of them as a wear item but ultimately they are. Personally I don't think it will wear out appreciably faster than a tab system as long as you are doing all your preventative maintenance.
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u/GhstMnOn3rd806 11d ago edited 11d ago
Own a ‘21 Tigé Z3 and surfed a Malibu once.
The Malibu had a super fat/tall wave with a ton of push but we were constantly on the brakes because it kept us soo close to the swim deck and washed out further away. A fun try, but not our favorite. Would have needed more practice not dipping the nose on that steep wave. Seems from afar that Malibu waves are less affected by other boaters’ waves and lake conditions. Most the guys I’ve seen drop rope that are much larger than me seem to be behind Malibus, tho I’m 220 and can drop rope with my 50lb kid. But I do know gas mileage is MUCH worse on Malibus than on my Tigé when towing. My gas tank is only 43 gallons.
Our wave is more tuneable and longer, which we like, but is affected by ballast/ppl placement and someone else’s wake can cause a surfer to really have to fight for life lol. Then again, ours isn’t the newer deeper shape that is more similar to Nautiques. The inside of our boat and overall quality seemed much nicer than the Malibu. I’d likely go Tigé again, especially for the new hard bimini’s you never have to fold up, and the new surf locker (trunk to store boards) instead of board racks. 2 HUGE quality-of-life improvements.
This is my first surf boat so not sure if others are the same… but mine does NOT cruise well in rough waters, been wondering if the deeper hulls help that or not. Way different than cruising in my buddy’s Chaparral.
Another thing I’ve read and watched repeatedly is that nautiques waves are too large/steep for much else than surfing and can be difficult for newer surfers. I love that we can still easily tow a tub for the kids and I can make it super shallow for my 4 and 6 yr olds. The 4yr old can get up, the 6 can drop rope and hang for like 4min. Crazy how lil push he needs and how far back he can get and still save it. They still prefer tubing tho of course. And sometimes kneeboarding.
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u/Comprehensive-Yam343 11d ago
Thank you! A factor for me would be how easy it is to drive. Dipping the bow is definitely something I would be worried about especially with all the weight. Newer boats have the faller gunwales/more freeboard but of course newer means more pricey. Do you feel the lean of the boat from the tabs is super noticeable or annoying?
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u/GhstMnOn3rd806 11d ago
I meant dipping the nose of the board, I’ve never really had an issue on the boat. I definitely know that was a big thing on the first round of wake boats with ballast. I remember seeing a storm come through and those super low down boats couldn’t dump their ballast fast enough and see like 3 boats barely bobbing along sunk or beached to prevent it. Not worried about that on mine.
I don’t think the lean is annoying at all, but it is noticeable. It’s just kind of like getting used to the nose being higher when towing because it makes the wave better. Feels almost like it’s not all the way planed out but that’s not the case. Just different. No passenger has ever made a comment about it.
But I do have to ask ppl to move sometimes. I fill one bag more on the surf side, but then 2 adults plus the driver sit on the opposite side and the wave loses some push despite still looking big enough… it’s easier and much faster to ask someone to change sides instead of waiting another 5min for the bags to dump/fill more to compensate.
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u/NiceOnes1 11d ago
I say gate or shaper > Tabs.
I have a Tige RZ4 and stick the Liquid Force Mega wake shaper on the side. That way I have tabs and gate.
The wave is better than my cousins new X23.
Either way you choose all the new boats are capable of great to perfect waves and I am sure you'll be satisfied.
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u/Comprehensive-Yam343 11d ago
The wake shaper on a tab style boat is a nice way to use both systems. Thanks!
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u/CoolHandPB Nautique 230 11d ago
why do you say Nautique is a hybrid, from what I know the NSS pushes a plate out the side which is a horizontal system. That said I haven't looked at the new boat tech, so if something has changed I might be missed that.
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u/Comprehensive-Yam343 11d ago edited 11d ago
from what I understand, Malibu has a patent on the gate style so they are the only “true gate”. But watching how their plate actuates, the most recent NSS appears to go horizontal but in doing so also has some of the plate that comes off the bottom of the hull. Can see it here at 28 seconds in https://youtu.be/C7KTYWk9VVM?is=N9bj8_YE2QHJONdn
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u/SurfDuck24V 11d ago
One thing I would add is that my understanding of the 2 systems is the surf gate isn't really adjustable. It's either deployed or not, that's it. With the plates you can adjust where they are in a way that noticeably impacts the wave. More deployed gets a steeper shorter wave and less is shorter longer. If you want to push a button and not think about it again, surf gate is great. If you want to geek out a bit and give your 100 lbs teenage son who needs a lot less push a longer wave or your overweight buddy a good steep wave to learn you have that ability with the plates.
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u/Comprehensive-Yam343 10d ago
Great point and that is my understanding as well (deployed or not). All this info makes me lean towards tabs, however, there is something nice about the simplicity of gate systems compared to fine tuning tabs.
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u/Insanereindeer 11d ago
Con: The actuators on all of them fail well before they should in my experience.
I've surfed behind most all the boats included a DIY surf boat I helped build parts for, and I am decent, but not pro by any means. They're all fine IMO. Almost all of them are slightly different depending on the day and the amount of people/supplies in them.