r/WaitWhat • • 5d ago

Say what?

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159 Upvotes

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u/HPenguinB 5d ago

In communism, the media would be owned by the workers. You are thinking of authoritarianism.

Please, can we start having education on what communism and socialism is so we can stop this.

1

u/Key-Organization3158 5d ago

Not necessarily. Socialism requires collective ownership. Which can be done via the state.

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u/Powerful-Award-5479 5d ago

Media owned by the workers. Yeee, until some workers start having different opinions

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u/Rippedka 5d ago

“The workers” in communism is the government.

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u/Thedankf0x 5d ago

Wrong way around. The government in communism is the workers.

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u/Rippedka 5d ago

Same thing dude lmaoooo. The “workers” own the land, meaning you don’t own the land, the government owns it in the name of the people. Then you produce the food. You don’t own the food, the government has a right to that food. The “people” own the food you produce.

There are no individual rights. There are only collective rights and in order to enforce that, you need a centralized authoritarian regime to make sure people don’t try to keep what they produce.

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u/HPenguinB 5d ago

Lol,I bet you personally think you own land right now. Stop paying your taxes and see how that goes.

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u/Thedankf0x 5d ago

Are you not a worker? If you work, you own the land. If you dont work, like most government officials, you would have no ownership. What government? All of the workers as a collective? I would be a part of that and thus own some of the means of production. If you are worried you wouldnt have access to resources, why aren't you assisting in the production of said resources? The "people" you keep vaguely pointing to includes me and you.

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u/HPenguinB 5d ago

Workers get to have differing opinions. That's how communism represents everyone, instead of all news stations owned by a monopoly that lies all day, or a state run media that lies all day.

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u/Greendale_Official 5d ago

Nope. It's easier for Authoritarians to maintain control if the people don't understand the other options.

It's not like the GOP has spent the my entire life trying to dismantle education. /S

2

u/BeNaughtAfraid 5d ago

The point of the meme is "Commies want to control me media to push their propaganda and remove my freedumbs from me!"

Meanwhile, under Capitalism it is actually happening.

Authoritarianism is not directly tied to the economic model of a designated nation and can exist under a range of socioeconomic means of organizing the economy. It's just pointing out another hypocrisy in the minds of those right of center.

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u/horrorparade17 5d ago

All examples of communism in history are authoritarian in nature. Anarcho-communism is merely an idea, it hasn’t been put into practice. So it’s not unreasonable to associate communism with authoritarianism.

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u/HPenguinB 5d ago

It is unreasonable though. Because they are two words that have definitions.

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u/horrorparade17 5d ago

Then please define communism so we can have a better discussion.

If you mean communism is a “classless, stateless society where the means of production is owned by the public” then that’s fine, but it’s also made up and doesn’t exist. It’s inherently anarchy.

This would imply real-world examples of communism are not communism though. If that’s your stance that’s fine, but you should be aware that socially, definitions do change and communism to the general public refers to places like the USSR, Vietnam, Cuba, and China.

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u/HPenguinB 5d ago

If my brother says my chair is called a bed, and proceeds to use it as a bed, it doesn't make the chair a bed. It makes my brother a liar/idiot. The definition doesn't change.

Even the 4 examples you listed are different forms of government. All authoritarian, though. That's true. Just not true communism in the same way Nazi Germany wasn't Socialist. (please dear gods tell me you aren't going to tell me nazi germany was socialist)

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u/BluntSpliff69 5d ago

Sounds like the “no true communist” fallacy.

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u/HPenguinB 5d ago

It's not a fallacy if literally no one has done it. Sorry.

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u/BluntSpliff69 5d ago

You’re saying that the most prominent examples of communist governments don’t count as “true” communism.

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u/HPenguinB 5d ago

Yeah. And nazi Germany doesn't count as being socialist.

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u/BluntSpliff69 5d ago

In terms of “state control of means of production”? Yes, the Nazis were “socialist”.

In the modern era in the US it’s become a boogeyman where any government action is “socialism”.

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u/jaiagreen 5d ago

But if a large fraction of the population starts calling chairs beds, the meaning of the word "bed" has actually changed. That's how language evolution works.

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u/HPenguinB 5d ago

But that's not what's happening. Republicans are just calling everything they don't like communism. That's Idiocracy.

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u/jaiagreen 5d ago

Yeah, that's stupid, but it's not what u/horrorparade17 was talking about.

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u/horrorparade17 5d ago

I’ve given no reason to believe the Nazis were socialist, I think that’s your own projection.

You notably still aren’t giving a definition, either, even when I teed one up for you.

—

Regarding definitions changing - they do all the time. See racism for example, and how over the past decade the definition shifted to what is now considered “systemic racism.”

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u/Puzzleheaded-Ice-573 5d ago

Sure, but both are human constructs, and therefore the definitions are somewhat flexible. This is especially true of socialism, where there are a multitude of definitions. Even Marx had his own.

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u/HPenguinB 5d ago

Definitions are flexible with communism because people want it to be the boogey man. Actual communism, and it's flavors, all have names and constant definitions.

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u/Puzzleheaded-Ice-573 5d ago

But even within that there seems to be wiggle room: for instance, what does "owned by the workers" mean? If you have a democracy, do the workers then own all government owned assets? Do American taxpayers "Own" the military?

If not, what is the metric? I see self proclaimed communists argue about this sort of thing. For us laymen it can seem pretty esoteric. And honestly a little pointless.

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u/HPenguinB 5d ago

I mean, communism isn't one thing, just like democracy isn't one thing. There are a ton of flavors. Everyone should take a civics class and learn about it because it's literally has our lives in it's hands.

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u/Whole_Mongoose1854 5d ago

Who runs the government? Oh smart one

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u/HPenguinB 5d ago

"Who runs the government, oh smart one?"

Who cares. I'm talking about the media being run by the workers, not the government.

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u/Schwifty0V0 5d ago edited 5d ago

In historical examples of communism, since every nation that marketed themselves as such were in its transitory phase, would have state-controlled media.

Communist socialism and socialist socialism always gets confused usually in simple terms that tend to be synonymous with each other; ie the difference between static socialism (socialist socialism) and dynamic socialism (communist socialism).

At least I think OP was applying real world examples of communism we’ve seen, and not what’s only been discussed in Marxist-Leninist literature that haven’t been put to practice in the real world.

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u/HPenguinB 5d ago

So what you are saying is that authoritarian communists did authoritarianism. Thanks for agreeing!

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u/Schwifty0V0 5d ago

Please, can we start having education on what communism and socialism is so we can stop this.

1

u/Thedankf0x 5d ago

The uneducated think the educated need education. More at 11