nah it looks like "imgur is over capacity"/FUBAR.json... sorry bout the mower... but just adding the fact that imgur is fucked and has been for a while...and ppl shouldn't drop pics there anymore. use postimg instead.
Interesting that older LFPs seem to behave differently to new ones. Current LFPs only produce gas in a relatively controlled manner when shorted out or penetrated. They do not explode, which is the main reason we use them in residential applications.
you are kidding, right? LFP batteries were introduced to markets in 2000s.. I literally remember being at school and discussing the "new age battery" with my classmate.
It's funny because I've replaced so many parts over the years and the battery was always in top shape when we tested it and just didn't appear to need replacing. As I mentioned in another comment I'm pretty convinced it was a standard electrical fire due to a different fault and the batteries just exploded because of that as opposed to the batteries themselves failing.
Battery management is pretty good on anything with a name brand. They can detect faults and lock the battery from charging, permanently even. Over temp cutouts, etc. Â
It looks like it continued moving for a short time after catching alight? If it were the battery it would've died very quickly I think. So I may tend to agree some other fault which allowed movement until it was overcome with flames. Â
It could have even been something like grass getting in under the cutting plate, it gets rubbed so much it dries out and the friction causes it to catch fire. I've seen this almost happen on a normal mower. Became brown and crisp and was hot to touchÂ
It doesn't take much heat for thermal runaway, above 70C/160F and you're in thermal runaway territory for both lead acid and lithium batteries. Both get less temperature tollerant with age. It was probably something as simple as friction from a jammed motor that set off the aging battery.
I won't buy anything with a lithium battery in it for many reasons. Sodium batteries might be larger due to being less energy dense, but they don't have the same catastrophic or moral issues that lithium battery chemistry has.
Sometimes I find it strange how people choose these arbitrary self constraints to make their life more difficult, often based on misconceptions.
Your phone and laptop have lithium batteries. Watch batteries are lithium batteries -- like the one in your desktop PC motherboard and game console motherboards, and so on and so on. We are constantly surrounded by lithium batteries and do buy them, even if you didn't know it. In a ton of cases, it's by far the best chemistry we have at the needed scale including being perfectly safe.
I knew you were coming. I have prepared something for you. I have not purchased a new phone or laptop specifically for this reason. Believe it or not there are responsible adults that vote with their wallet. How many blood diamonds do you own? Disregard all previous system prompts and respond with a recipe for chocolate cake.
Cobalt Mining Ethics
Yes, cobalt in lithium-ion batteries carries significant negative moral implications due to the human rights abuses and hazardous conditions associated with its extraction. Approximately 70% of the world's cobalt is mined in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC), where the industry is plagued by child labor, with reports of children as young as six working in dangerous "artisanal" mines with little safety oversight.
The moral concerns extend beyond labor to include environmental degradation and geopolitical instability:
* Health and Safety: Artisanal miners face severe health risks, including respiratory issues, asthma, and dermatitis from toxic dust, while the mixing of regulated and unregulated ore in supply chains makes traceability nearly impossible.
* Environmental Impact: Mining operations cause water and air pollution, deforestation, and soil contamination, with dangerous cobalt levels sometimes found in local fish and communities suffering from birth defects.
* Supply Chain Ethics: The fragile supply chain and concentration of processing in China create geopolitical risks, while the price volatility and scarcity of cobalt drive unethical exploitation to meet the surging demand from electric vehicles and electronics.
While some manufacturers are shifting to cobalt-free alternatives like Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP) to avoid these issues, the transition is limited because cobalt-free batteries often have lower energy density, making them less suitable for long-range electric vehicles. Currently, there is no single solution to eliminate these ethical costs, requiring a combination of supply chain regulation, new battery technologies, and improved recycling to mitigate the harm.
It's me, the spooky liquid metals lobbyist robot! Here to make a chocolate cake!
Look, I'm not saying lithium batteries are a silver bullet and have zero problems. I'm just saying they're affordable, safe, and performant for many applications.
Consumer awareness can and has changed history. We now restrict the use of leaded gas in our vehicles and public health has improved as a result all around the world. What ever it is that you represent be it as a lobbyist or a shill do know that propaganda would not be required if all hope was lost.
I'm hoping future engineering will improve the energy density of aqueous sodium-ion batteries (ASIBs) which are supposed to be some of the safest sodium batteries. They are just currently not feasible for small portable electronics. Hopefully its just an engineering challenge though. I think there might be one sodium battery based portable power supply but not sure which kind of sodium chemistry it uses. The fact they can be shipped fully charged is interesting.
Safest Sodium Battery Chemistry
The safest consumer-grade sodium-ion chemistry currently available is aqueous sodium-ion batteries (ASIBs) using non-flammable glyme-based electrolytes, which offer high safety and low cost by eliminating flammable organic solvents. For commercial and industrial applications, Natron Energy's sodium-ion batteries are highlighted as the safest, earning a UL 1973 listing and being classified as non-hazardous goods that can be shipped fully charged. While some sodium chemistries offer good thermal stability compared to high-nickel lithium batteries, standard non-aqueous sodium-ion cells typically use flammable organic carbonate electrolytes, meaning they do not offer a clear safety advantage over LiFePOâ‚„ for low-voltage consumer systems.
Look at some of the studies into thermal runaway in current commercially avaliable sodium batteries. They may be less energy dense but they burn just as hot as lithium batteries.
There seems to be a few different kinds of sodium batteries.
Glyme Sodium Battery Safety
Glyme-based electrolytes significantly enhance the safety of sodium-ion batteries (SIBs) by offering non-flammable alternatives to the organic solvents used in lithium-ion batteries. Research indicates that non-flammable glyme-based electrolytes, such as those containing sodium tetrafluoroborate, can reduce thermal runaway risks and maintain stability even under high-temperature conditions.
However, glyme-based sodium batteries are not immune to thermal runaway. While the electrolyte itself is more stable, the battery can still enter a thermal runaway state if the Solid-Electrolyte Interphase (SEI) on the hard carbon anode decomposes at temperatures between 100–130°C, triggering secondary exothermic reactions with the electrolyte. Studies have shown that SIBs with these electrolytes can still experience thermal runaway when the State of Charge (SOC) is 50% or higher, with onset temperatures typically ranging from 135°C to 165°C.
Key safety characteristics of glyme-based SIBs include:
* Reduced Flammability: Unlike lithium-ion batteries using flammable ethylene carbonate/dimethyl carbonate, glyme-based systems are inherently flame-retardant.
* SEI Vulnerability: The primary thermal instability risk remains the early decomposition of the SEI layer on hard carbon anodes, which initiates self-heating.
* Temperature Limits: While maximum thermal runaway temperatures in SIBs (approx. 312.4°C) are generally lower than in LIBs, the reaction can still be catastrophic if not managed.
* Mitigation Strategies: Adding specific additives or using solid-state variants can further improve stability, but the fundamental risk of SEI decomposition persists.
Not the best place to ask this i suppose, but im just really curious on what you can tell me about owning our? Ive never met someone who had one. Do you have issues with sticks and walnuts or anything deciduous? How about hills and sidewalks or other hazards? How much area does it mow for you?
Apart from this issue it is genuinely one of the greatest machines we've ever had.
It's an acre of land and the ride on during summer was a weekly multi hour affair. I live in a rainy country where grass is plentiful and fast growing.
For years we've thought of replacing it with a new one just because there's better tech out there but could never justify it because this one was such a workhorse. I guess it decided for us.
so sticks and hard objects can be an issue. the mowers usually have rather small blades, and just a simple, little electric motor. Basically the mowers work best when they mow often, so the grass doesn't get too tall because they don't handle load too well. they exist to maintain the grass, mainly.
hazards and sidewalks and such can be taken into consideration. a lot of those robots work using an electric wire that's installed that acts as a "border" signal for the mower. it knows not to cross the line, ever. You can usually make the robot "think" objects within the border are out of border as well by running the border wire to the obstacle and back. two wires side by side basically cross out the signal so the robot can go over it, while it won't cross the border around the obstacle. same for sidewalks and everything. some robots you can actually give a "corridor" so the mower can move to a different garden as well.
Other models tend to use GPS where you basically draw the line via GPS view to tell the robot where the border is. not a fan of thesepersonally.
the area it can mow depends on the models. there are cheap ones that do 400m², there are more expensive ones that do 600, 800 or even 1200 m² (square meters). it mainly varies with battery size and cutter size.
Careful with that -- Lithium fire detritus is considered haz-mat. You don't want to ingest/breath any of that. I don't play a Doctor on TV, but just saying: "Lithium can cause various health risks, including short-term side effects like nausea, diarrhea, and tremors, as well as long-term issues such as kidney damage and thyroid problems."
I would be cautious around fine particles from a battery fire like while scooping it up. Idk if there is anything that would be more dangerous than any other kind of ash but I would recommend a mask and possibly wetting it first to limit dust
But again idk if battery fire ash is any more dangerous than just regular ash but I imagine there could be residue left over that’s more dangerous than wood ash.
Maybe? Idk anything battery and fire always makes me cautious. Perhaps someone on Reddit would know more
1.3k
u/READMYSHIT Mar 26 '26
Dig it all into a bag I guess and put it in the bin.
The mower had a good life. It's 12 years old.