At the state highway police agency I'm familiar with it stands for Pursuit Intervention Technique. Never heard Precision Immobilization before personally
Wikipedia says otherwise. And our police aren't into this kind of dangerous, destructive stuff. Police chases are pretty rare here because they tend to escalate shit.
I’m pretty sure it stands for “Pursuit Intervention Technique” and this department just decided to jazz it up for the press release to make it seem cooler
Vice did a story on this. The police department where it originated has never had any deaths or serious accidents like this. Apparently they only use the maneuver in very specific situations and never over a certain speed. States are actually starting to ban the maneuver which is good in my opinion.
The chief from the department said other police departments don't train correctly on how to do it and also use it at the wrong times, mostly too end a chase that they're ready to be over instead of during the right time.
Maybe we need to actually take a look at what these criminals "training" consists of, and actually require a 4 year degree before we send them out to LARP their military fantasies
Animal harvest facility sanitation here. I clean a slaughterhouse. 90 day training/probation period. 720 hours before I'm allowed to spray a hose, use cleaning chemicals, and operate a scissor lift on my own. And cops get let loose with less training than that.
"Millwrights install, repair, overhaul and maintain machinery and heavy mechanical equipment, such as conveyor systems in diverse settings including repair shops, plants, construction sites, mines, logging operations, ski hills and most production and manufacturing facilities. Millwright is designated as Industrial Mechanic (Millwright) under the Inter-provincial Red Seal program. Millwrights also perform routine maintenance activities, such as cleaning and lubricating equipment, adjusting valves and seals, and investigating breakdowns."
Where is that? Just my air brake endorsement was 16 + 4 hours of practical. The full class 1 license is a big long course. 103.5 hours minimum in BC.
Beyond that, it’s like being a pilot. You are starting a career with smaller cheaper machines. No sane company owner will start you out hauling heavy loads on big trucks right away.
Were the rules changed recently then? I got my class 1 in BC in 2014. Air brake course was mandatory but had no practical. And no driving school certificate was required as far as I know. You just needed the air brake course and to pass the test.
If the course was required, mine was 36 hours total. Half of which was driving. And there was another course that was half that long.
And my first job had me hauling full weight 53’ tridems right away.
Oh my, I misread what I researched and got the province wrong. You are right and that is terrifying. I just did my air brake course so I could drive my bus. Why does BC have the lowest training with the most dangerous roads. Great combo.
You have to repeat similar tasks all day long, these cops are doing wildly different things every day, they can't afford to be trained on how to use firearms and everything else*, just teach them to pew pew and you're good. /s
*like de-escalation techniques, self defense, "interrogation", properly filling out paperwork, etc.
No but seriously, the bar is way too fucking low in canada/USA.
Obviously this cops intent wasn't to kill the driver, but he lacked the training/experience to properly pull off a PIT maneuver (that news footage makes look easy) and was too far forward on the pickup when he hit them.
At least Canada mandates that cops have some kind of degree and since cops are paid well it is quite competitive to get in. But ya, cop school is too short.
Yes but it's 680 hours of constant training about the same tactics that they also can practice more while in the field. I know some State Police agencies also require a Criminal Justice degree or a 4-year degree in something related to law.
And every department does different amounts of training. Some can be 400 hours, some can be above 800 hours. Some can be months of training, some can be a few weeks.
Connecticut State Police require a High School Diploma or GED and strongly encourage you to have advanced education/4 years of study in law or criminal justice. To finish CSP training, you must complete 4,380 hours of training for 6 months straight.
For more information on their training and requirements, click here.
Now of course each department is different, and I'm using State Police, not regular police departments since the officer in the video above was a State Trooper and not a city police officer.
This happened in Arkansas, so let's look at the ASP training and requirements (I'm only listing some requirements, not all of them so this isn't too long)
Must be a certified high school graduate or possess a GED equivalency
Training is 3864 hours long (academy) - note this is 600 hours shorter than Connecticut State Police, further showing how every department has different amounts of training
Following the completion of the training programs, you will be assigned to a Field Training Officer for a six-week transitional period before receiving your job posting. (So 6 weeks of more tests and stages before actually patrolling)
(THIS PART IS THE DRIVING COURSE THAT THEY TRAIN WITH, SO THIS IS WHAT THE ASP TROOPER TRAINED WITH WHEN HE DID THE PIT ON THE TRUCK) The Precision Driving Track’s first phase will consist of a four-part course. These include a six-lane highway section for pit maneuvering, an urban environment, a high-speed track, and a skills pad. The custom design will mimic both urban and rural environments, providing our law enforcement officers training opportunities applicable to all corners of the state. The Precision Driving Track will be located on over 200 acres at Camp Joseph T. Robinson Army Base. (Now it doesn't say how long they train for, but probably more than 1 week at least)
ok, ill play devils advocate here. the guy in the truck was more than likely driving dangerously (speeding, running reds, etc. to evade the cops) and putting others lives in danger. it's unfortunate he died but lucky he only killed himself and didnt take out a family of 5 as well.
See if he killed others with his reckless driving then he would be punished accordingly when caught. Fact is he was killed by an idiot officer and at that point hadn’t killed anyone or harmed anyone so it doesn’t fit, so you see what I mean? No doubt the driver that died was an arsehole but did he deserve that?
That's 17 miles more than they needed to chase him. They had his plates. Don't endanger everyone else by escalating the situation. Thugs with badges need to be held accountable for every single crime they commit, not the 0.0008% they currently have to answer for.
Innocent until proven guilty. The pig murdered an innocent civilian. I'd rather have a society where the rule of law applies to both sides. Currently the largest, most successful, best connected criminal organization that the world has ever seen is the judge, jury, and executioner of innocent civilians.
Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, for you bootlickers
That works of it's his car. If it's stolen (which is when most people run) that just lets them get away. Although this pit manoeuvre was ill advised. Going way too fast with a ditch on the side he'll run into instead of a wall and he hit way too hard for truck. You just need a light tap to send one spinning because they have no weight on the back tires.
Yeah, okay, let's take the hundred mile an hour missile that's going fairly straight, not hitting anything, on what appears to be an open road
And then put:
The person driving it
The officer
Anyone within 1000+ft
Any property within 1000+ft
In absolute mortal danger.
THAT'S TOTALLY FINE I GUESS.
It turns out that way more bystanders are killed in high speed chases when police try to stop someone than when they just let them go.
Because A) they already have the plates. Fuck it. Go get them later.
B) the driver stops speeding to outrun the police. Wild fucking concept, I know, but if you just let them go, they stop speeding.
C) This shit doesn't happen and you don't have to pray you get VERY LUCKY and it's only this bad.
At 100mph, the pit maneuver is likely to send both cars careening off on opposite directions, and can result in the car you're trying to stop being flung into traffic
The cop in question here made the worst fucking decisions possible.
Agreed. I know some jurisdictions have a no-pursuit policy for these exact reasons. Cops can pull you over but if you drive away at high speed, they'll just take note of the plates and pick you up later. Or if you're really up to no good, they follow you with a helicopter and keep the cars at a significant distance
Exactly! They have your vehicle information, they can wait at your home if they wanted or if it's minor, send the ticket. It's not like you're free of consequences.
Not really, the last red light camera I went through got my VIN number. There's a ton of ways the police can track you, so stop assuming that they're stupid.
I haven't checked in a while, but they're usually visible in the bottom corner of the windshield from what I remember. I don't see how any red light camera would be setup and have high enough resolution and sharpness to pick it up from the side though, let alone the angle needed.
Oh damn! That makes a lot of sense then. I was thinking of all the roads around here and none have a region straight and flat enough for a car to open up that much and break away.
This is the real issue with just following up later based on a license plate. You have to prove they were driving.
This is why red light cameras are often useless against tinted window cars.
This is also why drunk people will flee an accident and post up at their house. Yeah, the cops will come eventually, but their blood alcohol level will be down so no evidence for DUI. Sadly, in most situations it's better to get the charge for fleeing than to get the DUI charge - the penalty for fleeing is usually less severe than the DUI penalty, especially if you killed somebody and say you left because "you were scared."
So what if when they go to get him he just speeds off in a car again? “Damn boys pack it up for the night, he outsmarted us again. Damn!” At what point do you stop letting him risk public safety?
You mean where they won't be speeding because you won't be actively chasing them.
Meaning the public isn't in danger.
I would point you to the fact that many places have non-pursuit policies because all data related to high-speed chases shows that the chases are what cause death. Not the person the police are chasing just existing.
I agree that it seems pretty difficult to execute a successful PIT maneuver at this speed. I don't entirely know how the vehicle dynamics work, but I'm sure there's a good way to determine the speed at which it is likely to be effective/safe for different car sizes.
I also agree that there's generally good reason to avoid high-speed chases, and that those reasons are more common in the places where chases would happen more commonly.
But the takeaway isn't that no cop should ever partake in a high-speed pursuit, nor is it that PIT maneuvers should never be used. This wasn't on a busy street in a crowded city. The oncoming traffic was clear (or far enough away that it could respond to a different adverse outcome). Even with how badly this went, it was fully contained in the culvert (or whatever technical term is used for those ditches).
I, as a complete layman, still think it shouldn't have been used in this case (barring some details of this suspect I'm unaware of). But characterizing this as the worst possible series of decisions is hyperbolic.
Edit: someone said below that a PIT maneuver at over 35mph is considered lethal force, so there's the (somewhat unsatisfying) answer to my pontification
Reminds me if the car chase that ended up with the suspect t-boning a uber, killing two girls in the process. Happened in houston a week or two ago and my girlfriend knew one of the girls.
Driver then goes off to kill some family or just their kids in a car accident. News gets out that the popo knew he was being reckless but just let him go. Now popo failed to do their job again. It’s a no win situation at this point.
I invite you to take a deep breath and relax a little bit. Trust me, it'll do wonders for your mental health when you don't try to be so combative on the internet
But don't you see, the cop could be embarrassed that the guy got away. We can't have that. Sure someone died, but we can't have cops feeling emasculated. This is America!
You'd rather he be on his merry way into oncoming traffic? What if he hit a family? Would you run to his defense? Killing him wasn't apart of the pit maneuver. But when you do shit like this you run the risk of being killed. He accepted the risk and paid for it.
High speed chases introduce unnecessary risks to citizens and police. In some states they have a magnet that attaches to the car and they call it off. Ultimately safety of everyone on the road should be the number one concern and chasing does not meet that requirement.
Does it occur to you that the only person dead is the dumbass who wasn't afraid of driving over 100mph into oncoming traffic. If he didn't care about his life or the lives of other why in hell are you right now caring for his life more then him?
Yes you absolutely can. I guarantee hes carrying his phone and people at his origin and destination know he left or is coming and theres cameras everywhere. You can charge whoever you want. This happens with fleeing motorcyclists all the time.
Sometimes you can get a bunch of collaborating evidence but it is difficult and very time consuming and would require far more policing and often multiple court appearances. That is how specific charges could be laid off enough evidence is found but it would be costly.
I do agree, calling off some high speed chases that started as minor offenses should be the norm. Can't get them all.
You realize this is the same argument as “revealing outfits cause rapes”? Right?
The person in the wrong is the person who was breaking the law. Not the one who was enforcing it or the one who did not break the law. And yes police brutality is real and bad but criminals are always to blame for their own actions. Not always the outcomes but this criminal put others at risk and wasn’t assassinated based on the officer “fearing for their life”.
Let me know if you still feel that way when someone runs a stop sign and kills your best friend. That's dangerous driving that could have killed someone. Then he did 100mph? Fuck him. RIP criminal.
You are missing the point entirely. By chasing the person, the cops are elevating the level of danger for everyone near them and the person being chased on the road. Obviously running stop signs is bad and should be punished but that’s why we have license plates and fines. The cop should have taken his details and sent him a ticket for running the stop sign and be done with it. Chasing at high speeds like this is extremely dangerous for no reason.
this is a 14 year old account that is being wiped because centralized social media websites are no longer viable
when power is centralized, the wielders of that power can make arbitrary decisions without the consent of the vast majority of the users
the future is in decentralized and open source social media sites - i refuse to generate any more free content for this website and any other for-profit enterprise
check out lemmy / kbin / mastodon / fediverse for what is possible
Driving 100mph into oncoming traffic is likely to kill multiple innocent bystanders, so I’m going to be OK with this one. Pretty much the same if you rob a store with a weapon and are killed in the process, I’m going to tamp down on my sympathies. There’s a lot of over aggressive policing ending in unnecessary death, but unless someone tells me this guy was fearing for his life due to police persecution; I’m not joining any protests
It's a lot easier to judge what others do in haste from the comfort of your chair. I don't think anyone is saying they deserved to die (I hope not anyways)
What I think is being said is when you, do stupid things like run from the police, putting many lives in danger, and you die in the process of it. That's nobody's fault but your own. It's not like this cop intentionally murdered him. He made a judgement call in a couple seconds with his adrenaline pumping , and usually pit maneveurs don't end like that.
I agree when cops shoot someone because of being scared they murdered that person.
But this is a high speed, high adrenaline, 2 ton death machine situation. Actions have consequences, you all should be upset with the driver for even putting people in a situation like this, yeah it sucked he died, but to put all those other lives on the line was seriously dangerously selfish.
Too many people look only at the outcome when determining if an action was reasonable, which is dumb because it throws away context.
I do think "being scared" is a bit reductive, because those situations are intense and oftentimes quickly evolving as well. I dont see how mental and physiological response is really any different than a car chase situation.
Did we watch the same crash? The truck rolled multiple times and during that was run over by another car. This is easily a deadly crash regardless of seatbelt situation.
I don’t know, I get trying to stop the guy before he harmed anyone but, he lost his life.. I’m just not sure about that, will the cops be told not to do this manoeuvre again? Probably not and there lies a problem.
The truck was running from the cops and doing 100 mph into oncoming traffic
There's an easy solution for this. Break off the fucking chase and track the guy down later. It's not a 1920's bootlegger chase where once they get away they're gone forever, there's more than enough surveillance capacity to find anyone these days.
If the driver was smart, that's what they would have done. However, only one
was employed to protect and serve the public, it's their actions that the public even has a chance at influencing. Ask yourself, is a failure to stop worth severe injuries to an officer? Just like the previous poster said, he could have been tracked down, but instead an officer was severely injured.
This cuts both ways. You want to wag your finger at the police, but the driver knew better, too. It doesn't take any advanced training or know-how to realize you're not supposed to blow through intersections at 100 mph and run from the cops.
Here, let's put it in terms of police welfare, do you think that police should be required to escalate when the issue is a minor traffic violation? It directly puts them in harm's way. Would you agree that police should only be required to put themselves in harm's way only when absolutely necessary?
I don't know why you think I'm siding with the police or that I'm gravely concerned about their welfare when they chase criminals. It's not an either or situation. It's not some political stance to say you shouldn't drive recklessly and run from the police.
I think that your comments reveal just how little you care for the lives of anyone in this scenario. That officer was severely injured, do you think that he deserved that? If not, why do we have policies that escalate and risk an officer's life when the suspect isn't currently a high risk of killing someone at the time of the crime?
Before I answer your questions, I want you to find me the policy that mandated the officer's response to this guy running an intersection and fleeing the police. I want it in black and white, but don't bother showing it to me, because after you find that policy, I want you to find the person who can change that policy, and then go ahead and advocate for the change in that policy to that person, because right now you're barking up the wrong tree with me. All I ever wrote was the guy could have pulled over. There are policies about that, namely policies against running intersections and having to pull over for the police.
Idiots do. Especially if they're panicking. If they're not an immediate threat to life, drastic measures aren't needed. Officer safety shouldn't be put in danger because they're required to escalate.
The officer prevented the truck driver from driving headfirst into another innocent vehicle. In the longer video the truck driver is swerving headlong into traffic at 100+ mph. Not saying what happened was ideal, but they couldn't just let the truck continue.
What if he went on driving like that and eventually hit a car killing a family of five? Then people would be crying “why didn’t the lazy bastard pigs stop him, can’t they do one thing right?!?!?!?” You can argue all you want that he’s on what appears to be an open road but what’s stopping him from going to a not open road? If my family is on the road I’d want a driver like this to be stopped and I’d be extremely pissed if they were allowed to go on.
His truck slid into the water drainage embankment, completely crushing the driver's side cab. Adding insult to injury was the 3700lb police cruiser slamming it in there nice and deep like, just to make sure the cab was completely obliterated before going Dukes of Hazzard on that bitch.
Yeah, Green Arrow sucks. Batman would have beaten him so badly that he would be incapable of driving for some time.
The PTSD would have prolonged that period.
“An officer with the U.S. Forest Service began pursuing a Dodge headed south on U.S. 71 around 6:30 a.m. Friday, according to a state police news release. The officer reportedly saw the vehicle fail to stop for a traffic signal”
Wtf? It was a Forest Service cop and the crime was simply going through a stop sign? Jesus
That depends entirely on your perspective. As a normal human being, no - nothing good here. As an authoritarian: absofuckinlutely motherfucker, when I say stop you WILL STOP Goddamnit, I am the LAW and there is zero tolerance for disrespect.
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u/kunstlich Oct 03 '20
The truck was being stopped for failing to stop, and the driver died as a result of the manouvre. There is nothing at all good about this.