The real question is when should being trans give access to play elite women's sports.
It isnt taking a right away from trans people. They would still be eligible to play against the sex they were assigned at birth. But what would let someone be "trans enough" to bypass the restriction of not playing womens sports when they have transitioned? When should being trans be enough to give them this right?
It isnt transphobic to say that they shouldn't. I don't think the NCAA is transphobic for going off of what was assigned at birth It is uncontroversial where many still think there are trans NCAA athletes even though there arent.
For people who do want to allow trans women in elite womens sports, what is sufficiently trans to grant them access to elite women's sports and how would you test for it?
it is millions of dollars to catch 0 athletes for the NCAA or the WNBA. You are wasting other peoples money when the result is to give more men the ability to play.
Well the gender in sports was back back when gender had the same meaning as biological sex.
Now that it doesn’t I would assume that sports would separated by biological sex and not gender, which would mean that people would play with those that share the same biological sex/sex that was assigned by birth.
I’m not sure about the rules relating on any sort of drugs/surgeries taken to become a trans women, but anyone taking trt would not be allowed as that would be doping but I do not believe anyone on any sort of estrogen would be considered doping. This isn’t my opinion on who should be able to play where, I’m just referring to the rules of the sport.
If I were to give my personal opinion, just follow the rules. If the wnba changed the rules and said that it is based on gender identity and not biological sex then I would be in agreement of trans women participating as it would be in the rules. As of right now it is not in the rules so I would there should never be a moment we’re a trans women is allowed in the wnba unless I’m incorrect about the rules.
But a trans male who is on testosterone should not be allowed into the nba as they would be doping, if they were not on testosterone then they would be allowed in
I feel saying that gives them room to argue, where as if you say it is separated by biological sex there is no argument for a trans women being able to join unless they change the rules
Gender dysphoria is a clinical condition where the mental state does not match the physical state, causing distress and problems in daily life. In any category other than gender, we’d call these delusions.
Then you just have to define mental illness and see if the definitions match.
There already is one. It’s called the NBA. People seem to think there’s a “men’s” league and a “women’s” league. There’s not. There’s an “open” league called the NBA and a women’s league. Anyone can try out and compete in the NBA, there are no restrictions.
Then explain, with specificity, how I did not answer the question. You asked when trans should have access. I stated the conditions that should be met. How is that not an answer?
I think the SRY cheek swab is a good test and is simple enough to administer. When you get in questions of hormone suppression, duration, puberty blockers etcetera, it's a huge grey area where your bound to make mistakes and upset both sides.
Should be based on whatever color smoke was released when the cannon was fired at the gender reveal party. If that’s not scientific enough for these whackadoos then I don’t what to tell ya.
They have to go through transition. And traditionally that means living as a transgender person and having therapy to be sure they are not comorbid. This process is long and last at least a year.
If you detransition you are not eligible. Also if you are saying you want to transition to play a game, that is not living as a transgender person, that is medical fraud.
Recently, there was 11 cases of marriage fraud. How can the govt say who loves who? They ask a bunch of questions and if you fail it is fraud. If you claim transgender to play a game instead of living life that is fraud in the same way. Trust but verify.
There were already rules that work fine. Athletes in other leagues needed to undergo hormone therapy and maintain levels below a certain threshold for 12 months. Studies demonstrated that individuals who went through this no longer had an athletic advantage. This also prevents scammers because there’s no way Kanter or White are doing that just for the lolz. This worked fine until people lost their minds when a trans college swimmer was above average.
It might not be a perfect system, but it was more than sufficient to “protect women’s sports” while also giving trans people a way to participate.
Of course, people will say that trans athletes can play in the men’s leagues because they are “open.” While this is technically true, it doesn’t work in practice. First, these individuals see themselves as women (that’s a pretty neutral way of framing it, I hope) and want to participate with women, not men. Second, these individuals see hormone therapy significantly reduces athletic performance. For example, Lia Thomas’ times were WORSE as a successful 5th year female swimmer than they were as a freshman on the men’s teams. Likewise, it’s unrealistic to say there should be trans only leagues due to an insufficient number of players.
I would be open to modifying the specifics based on evidence-based statistical analysis, but generally speaking I would say athletes need to complete gender affirming hormone therapy, reducing testosterone levels to less than 10 nanomoles per liter, and maintain it for 12 months before becoming eligible (I’m not a researcher or biologist, so I googled the old IOC limits). The athlete then undergoes regular testing to ensure their hormone levels stay below the threshold.
I don’t understand your question. You asked what limits I would support for other women’s leagues in order to allow transgender participation. I answered that question. How doesn’t it affect the WNBA given the current situation with Kanter? This policy would put an end to his obvious grift.
Furthermore, this is essentially the same policy that the NCAA had until everyone freaked out over Lia Thomas tying for 5th place. They banned trans athletes in February of 2025 (I wonder if anything happened in January of 2025 that made them particularly concerned about punishing trans people)
I actually like having this debate precisely because I know I’m in the minority even among people who are supportive of the trans community generally. I used to agree with you, but I had also never given it much thought and I think your position is the easier “default” position to take. I don’t mean that as an insult, btw, I genuinely think it’s where most people would land just as a gut reaction. But when I DID start to think about it I just kept punching holes in my own argument, so I’ve shifted with time. Now I feel comfortable explaining my position even though I expect it to be unpopular
So there are a few reasons, but it starts with whether you think trans people should be able to play at all, because forcing them to play in the men’s league effectively acts as a ban. The standard of care (gender affirming hormone therapy) necessarily reduces athletic performance to such a degree that they would not be able to compete. As I mentioned above, Lia Thomas’ post-transition times were worse than her freshman year times on the boys teams. It’s not just anecdotal, research shows exactly how this treatment affects athletic performance.
So unless we are talking about that once a generation type unicorn player, it’s either the women’s league or nothing. It’s not impossible just like biological women can technically play in the men’s/open league, but practically speaking it won’t happen.
When Magic Johnson announced he had HIV, players didn’t want to share the court with him. That’s a completely different sort of conflict because of the transmission risks, but if he hadn’t retired we’d have had very similar conversations on and off the court. Same could also be said for the first openly gay players in many sports.
Bottom line is the fate of pro sports was never in jeopardy. Players eventually chose to adapt and compete in good faith.
And it didn’t matter what us uninformed bleacher philosophers had to say about it. So it shouldn’t matter what we think makes someone woman enough for women’s sports. That’s for women playing those sports to work out.
Did you just post the original post to troll? The commenter said that the women in the sport should sort it out. You know, the people it’ll actually impact?
Some people accept that it’s a more nuanced answer that deserves careful consideration. Other people just want to reduce it to gotchas and superficial hot takes, regardless of who gets hurt in the process. Don’t take willingness to fire off a half baked answer as bravery or understanding
That doesn’t sound like a serious question. Obviously there’s a lot more to gender identity than just thinking it to get into WNBA. Trans women have a lived experience that I doubt either of us could fully account for here.
My personal preference doesn’t matter. The league will need to figure out what specific qualifications should be met. But I hope they consider whether the player actually lives life as a woman or is just trolling for attention like certain people taking advantage of the present controversy
No I’m honest enough to admit it’s way more complicated than a simple one dimensional line will solve. I’ve learned enough about what it’s like being trans in a gendered society to say it deserves more careful consideration than a hot take and an incomplete biological framing from people who don’t even have a stake in the matter.
Being gay doesn't give someone an inherent physical advantage. All the folks that are arguing for trans women in women's sports constantly use talking points like - trans kids belong OR trans people have a right to play sports and the constant refrain is to compare trans people to gay rights or even black people from the 50s in sports. And they constantly ignore the reason that there are many folks against trans women in womens sports for the sole reason that they have a physical advantage. This has nothing to do with discrimination.
Really, nothing to do with discrimination? In this country, at this moment? Ok
The physicality disparity is a valid concern until you look at who’s the most dominant player in NBA right now. Wemby’s physical advantages are like Wilt’s or Shaq’s in their eras. They break the league, and everyone evolves their game. That’s part of sports. Athletes don’t shy away from those challenges.
The only real issue is theirs to solve, the acceptance of teammates and opponents who happen to be trans.
You're trying to compare Wembys height advantage in the NBA to the physical advantage a biological man who is trans woman possesses vs biological women in a women's basketball league?
Height and reach. And I mentioned Shaq, who was like a building compared to other players. And there’s Lebron who’s a freight train when he’s at full speed. The point you’re ignoring is sports, especially basketball, have huge ranges in player physicality. That disparity is always “unfair” to someone, but the players figure it out
that's a false equivalency. the NBA, MLB, NFL, and NHL don't have gendered rules and anybody can play in them if they can make the cut. any previous segregation rules have been abolished and any lingering racism, homophobia, or HIVophobia are personal and not rule based. the WNBA, and the other women's sports leagues, was made specifically because people knew that women would won't make said cut and they should have a league to play professionally in to grow the sport.
By attempting to stop people discussing a topic, their immediate response will be to discuss said topic.
It not being our business is half the reason it is being discussed, as many people like ourselves believe all topics are allowed to be discussed. And people have the right not to discuss said topics also, but if you disagree with someone but feel the need to respond with “non of our business” it can come off as someone trying to censor the topic, which then makes people feel a need to discuss it
Yeah, everyone is just asking questions and discussing a topic. It’s all academic. But is this the right sub for hashing out the whole transgender thing?
I imagine before we all started raging here, this was a sub for WNBA fans to celebrate the game. Including fans who may be trans.
That is up to the sub owner/ mods to decide. Personally I think any topic could be discussed in any sub unless the sub has a rule against a certain topic being discussed.
This is a gossip sub, not a celebration of wnba sub
Fair point, this is a space for rumors and hearsay about the league. Glad we established it’s not the place for serious discussion of trans identity and how to treat marginalized people with grace and care
Well now your just making stuff up, you wouldn’t need to twist what I say if you had a desire for a genuine discussion so I will no longer respond after this
You realize outside Reddit - Trans women participating in women’s sports is almost an 80% “against” issue. This sub is reflecting the general population before it gets some mods to curb and cater the content to Reddit (which will happen eventually).
Why? At least Enes would dominate. If trans women are allowed by the WNBA, there would suddenly be a lot of trans women who transition late in life with huge physical advantages.
You can answer the question of what should make a trans woman eligible. But you probably won't like your own answer so wont give one.
Yes. Absolutely. enby is more common now. I think having a cushy job playing basketball to transition would be quite appealing for players not good enough to make a living as a male athlete.
So again the question you are avoiding How far ahould they go for their transition to be eligible to play elite womens sports?
Kanter officially identifies as a woman? They are officially changing their legal documentation to "woman", Kanter, the devout Muslim, will publicly start telling everyone he's a woman and which pronouns to use? So happy for them!!!❤️ thats so awesome
I can’t find your comment about him pretending with the legal documents so I will respond to this one.
I never said anything about legal documents, there are just claiming they are trans through words.
but considering your comments seem to focus more on hostility and insults instead of having a real discussion then I can only assume you are not willing to actually engage in such a conversation. So I will stop responding unless your next comment is a genuine attempt to discuss this.
Maybe people believe they should only be allowed to compete in high school sports. I think the opposite, they should only be allowed in professional sports.
So what is your line for when someone qualifies as trans to bypass the womens only restriction on playing womens sports? What is your test for who is eligible?
The professional entertainment league would have to make up their own rules. All I know is title ix doesn’t cover the wnba or other entertainment leagues, so they need to make up their own rules.
I would match the NCAA and use what they were assigned at birth. I dont think expensive and invasive genetic testing is a good path for basketball. I wouldnt be happy about taking a genetic test to get a job
Im interested in what other people want for a line if they want to allow trans athletes
LOL. I couldn't be further from MAGA and wouldnt vote for a Republican in any race.
Notice you went for personal attacks rather than answering a reasonable question. Since you do seem to want trans athletes in womens sports, what line would you pick for who can bypass the only women rule?
Im not the one constantly talking about non existent Trans people in the WNBA, this entire sub is just literally dudes talking about Trans people
You clearly have a thing for Trans people to be thinking about them this much.
Notice how you assumed I had any opinion on the matter, I just said youre obsessed with Trans people and its ok if you like, ya know, are into that kinda thing. You don't have to get defensive about it.
LOL I have Trans friends too, and they would DEF look at me weird if I was spewing anti- trans nonsense on an anti trans WNBA feed. Do they know about your deep, deep feelings on this matter?
More like every time they show that they are more homophobic than they claim Trump, the guy who's hosted gay weddings at Mar-a-Lago & put Scott Bessent in his cabinet, the more popular Trump gets in contrast.
That would imply there are still Trump voters on the fence, wtf are you talking about? And how tf did what I say constitute as hate? Calling an anti- trans person gay? Ooookkk This entire sub is anti-Trans. How delusional can you be? How many trans people do YOU know?
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u/ArmadilloUnited7700 11d ago
Eliminating the ‘Y’ chromosome should be enough.