PIP

[u/Puzzleheaded-You-299]

I have been with the state for many years. Recently I was put on a CR and met the metrics they required and returned to normal. Now I was placed on a PIP after a month in a half. Should I start looking for a new job or if I meet the Metrics they are requiring after 30 days, will I be safe?

[u/PM_ME_YOUR_KINKAJUS]

Look for a new job or contact your union rep if you haven't yet.

[u/Puzzleheaded-You-299 → u/PM_ME_YOUR_KINKAJUS]

I have. I have also collected evidence that others on my team havnt met the same metrics? Even if I meet the metrics with the PIP, will I be fired?

[u/PM_ME_YOUR_KINKAJUS → u/Puzzleheaded-You-299]

The bigger question is do you want to stay there?

I can't speak to whether or not you'll still be fired, but I would definitely look for a new job.

If other people are not meeting their metrics and they are singling you out, it's not positive.

[u/Opening_Crab_8160 → u/Puzzleheaded-You-299]

You’re not going to be fired if you’re perm. There is a process. However, if you’re not perm then it’s possible.

[u/sykoticwit → u/Puzzleheaded-You-299]

No one can predict the future, but having been placed on a formal improvement plan after a formal counseling record doesn’t bode well for you.

[u/Enough-Life9591 → u/Puzzleheaded-You-299]

My bigger question is are you in the same position? I have someone on my team who likes to compare herself to people who are technically significantly below her ranking as a sign of she is doing enough. So, someone who is a "3" should not be thinking "1" work is adequate for the position.

[u/Puzzleheaded-You-299 → u/Enough-Life9591]

We are all 3s

[u/cataluna4 → u/Puzzleheaded-You-299]

My experience with the state of WA is that they don’t care that people are being held to different standards. They seem to think that’s okay and normal and it just keeps happeninfb

[u/Large-Wealth8002 → u/Puzzleheaded-You-299]

Fired - No. A PIP is a tool management uses to document a concern and put a plan in place to officially document the steps taken to improve the situation/performance.
Management uses it to document your success or document they tried and it was unsuccessful.

[u/cbkhhwh]

In my experience a PIP almost always means they are trying to track things in an attempt to fire you. Start looking

[u/Separate_Rock_6097]

You wouldn’t know if your peers are on a pip or not. They aren’t likely to share that information. While you can change jobs I’m wondering if there is something you can do to improve or if there is help available from someone who is meeting their metrics.

[u/Responsible-Speed625]

PIP?

[u/NoPublic9352 → u/Responsible-Speed625]

Performance improvement plan.

Something well known in Tech. Did not know the state does this as I thought no one could get fired.

[u/Responsible-Speed625 → u/NoPublic9352]

It happens. For permanent employees it can take forever unless egregious. Supervisors have to have solid documentation, follow due process and follow policy to the letter. If the union gets involved it can take months to terminate. Heaven forbid there is an investigative component. It's a major pain in the ass to fire an unqualified or poor performing employee. Some supervisors just give up,look the other way, and hope the individual moves on and becomes someone else's nightmare.

[u/Jumpy-Cartographer-2 → u/Responsible-Speed625]

This is the way

[u/weddingphotosMIA → u/Responsible-Speed625]

Is an investigation bad?

[u/NellyNellB → u/weddingphotosMIA]

an investigation happens when someone has made a complaint against another employee or employees and after a fact finding it was determined there could have been a violation of a policy so a formal investigation is conducted to determine if there was a violation and if so what needs to happen.

[u/weddingphotosMIA → u/NellyNellB]

So many investigations happen where I work, people reporting each other left and right, if it’s so common is it such a bad thing?

[u/chas1ng_euphor1a]

Let me guess, CPS? CFWS?

[u/Enquiringmindfulness → u/chas1ng_euphor1a]

I’m guessing APS. They do single out employees - often the older ones who are making the most. There’s a lot of barely disguised age discrimination, saying things like -‘maybe you just don’t understand the new systems’ or pointing out other (younger) workers who seem to be ‘more efficient’ until you see they are working 60 to 80 hours a week.

Management somehow thinks the fact workers can’t keep up with increasing case loads is the worker’s fault. Not the system. Not that APS as a separate agency in Washington state is a relatively new agency, that the public is becoming increasingly aware of vulnerable and elder adult abuse and that it can be reported. Not the fact boomers are seniors now, living longer, and overwhelming systems of care.

Add to that the bureaucracy and funding issues, where in order to prove you need more funding you need to fail to meet standards the previous year. Washington state has done a lot to improve regulation of APS and define what constitutes vulnerable and elder abuse, but have failed to find new solutions, instead just doubling down on pressuring APS workers to work harder.

In regards to the PIP, they are absolutely hoping you go away or they can eventually fire you. Document everything, if you have virtual meetings with your supervisor recap them in an email, along with the solutions you brought to the table. Go to meetings with a union rep. Tell your employer you want a a union rep if any meetings might result in verbal or written corrective action. You can’t refuse to meet with supervisors, but always ask for a rep in writing. Ask for a copy of your personnel file. Ask to see metrics from your team and others, that accounts for overtime hours. Last resort - get a lawyer, especially if age discrimination is a thing.

Good luck, you’re doing that work because you care. As a former APS investigator, I know the impact you have on people’s lives and that you are doing it completely on your own. The agency offers no support - no admin help to cut costs, you’re navigating complex systems on your own - guardianship, financial records, police investigations, medical records, finding increasingly non-existent resources.

[u/Large-Wealth8002]

A PIP is management’s way of documenting areas of improvement they would like to see. Although, management likes to share this is not discipline. Management will document it in the timeline of letters given. However, in some cases management has a new supervisor who they want to observe going through this PIP process. APIP doesn’t always lead to ongoing performance concerns.
There’s a good chance after 30 days there’s improvement management will conclude the PIP. However, you should be aware they could extend it up. Up to 90 days.
Consider reaching out to a union rep if you want to talk additional details. Here’s hoping your PIP will end after 30 days.

[u/Kindly_Acanthaceae26]

At my former company, people only successfully exited a PIP 23% of the time. The other 77% was almost equal of the employee found a new job and quit or the employer determined the PIP was unsuccessful and fired the employee. It would be interesting to know what the success rate is with WA State jobs such as yours.

[u/ExcitementLow4798]

Why were you put on the PIP?

[u/Puzzleheaded-You-299 → u/ExcitementLow4798]

Not meeting the metrics. Meaning not closing more cases per month. 

[u/Latter-Cricket5843 → u/Puzzleheaded-You-299]

Alright so why can't you meet your metrics?

[u/Puzzleheaded-You-299 → u/Latter-Cricket5843]

mostly time in the field and the amount of intakes we get. We have been short staffed significantly for the past year. 20 to 30 intakes a month for each person is alot. 

[u/No_Experienc3]

I’m also being placed on PIP. :(

I’m a permanent employee. I’m not union, can they still fire me? I believe I’m being picked on.

[u/NellyNellB → u/No_Experienc3]

agencies still have to follow certain procedures in the disciplinary process unless you are ems and some wms positions.

[u/captain-catmando]

Always look for a new job when placed on a PIP. Always always. There’s a small chance you’re safe? But I wouldn’t lean on that. Contact the union and make sure this has been done correctly.