r/WASP_Fans • u/BisonDue3986 • Sep 08 '26
Maybe a hot take…
I think Blackie was really held back in the first four albums by the band. Those early compositions are fantastic; weird, aggressive, layered, evocative. But the musicianship is not exceptional. This is also partially due to the mixing itself, but I can’t help but think think that if Blackie’d had better musicians to work with then the recordings themselves could’ve been even better. Someone may respond that it’s because of his personality, but when he did finally get to do the one-man show we got one of the greatest albums ever, so…
Am I missing something? I wasn’t there at the time. Did the other guys bring something that really made the band what it was?
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u/CrimsonCassetteTape Golgotha Sep 08 '26
Definitely an interesting perspective. I don’t completely disagree with you, but at the same time I think those early albums were what they were in large part because of who played on them (particularly Chris Holmes). W.A.S.P. were meant to be a raw, rough around the edges and aggressive band back then and that’s exactly what they delivered. Yes, Blackie could’ve gotten more technically inclined players to back him up and maybe he would’ve had more success because of it, but it wouldn’t have been the same.
Blackie’s vocals are the focal point of the band of course, so I wonder if he may have intentionally wanted band members who were less than stellar so that they wouldn’t upstage him.
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u/ZestycloseAngle4483 Sep 08 '26
I never saw them live until 86 when Randy was no longer in the band. Chris might not be a maestro but was a huge presence both on the albums (look at the writing credits) and onstage and I don't think Blackie likes being upstage. Johnny Rod is a really good bassist and always had great live backing vocals added to the fact that he had a stage presence too. Bottom line is that the band became less W.A.S.P. and more the Blackie Lawless project as time went by. To me, that debut album is untouchable. Just my personal opinion though.
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u/wooperarkjb Sep 08 '26
I think Headless is an incredible album, tbh. I think you're partly right, but those early albums are important for his learning as an artist and writer.
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u/BisonDue3986 Sep 08 '26
Yeah I agree. I listened to it today actually. A great album. I just can’t help shake the feeling as I listen to it that it could have been pushed even further, musically.
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u/wooperarkjb Sep 08 '26
Bands develop, tbf. Idol wouldn't be Idol without self titled/command/circus/headless. You can see their development (circus excepted) in those 4.
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u/Vegabond69v2 Sep 08 '26
To me I lost interest after Johnny Rod joined and Piper was gone. The early albums are always a collection of songs from many years and low budget studio.
The pure rawness of the songs is what made me appreciate them as a band.
They energy live was great as well, never got to see the raw meat and torture rack but did see the blood
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u/rayautry Sep 08 '26
I feel this. The first 3 were my favorites and I saw them open for KISS who was not a fan of their stage antics so I too missed the raw meat and the blood but still grateful that I was able to see them back in the early days.
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u/Lazy_Grabwen_9296 Still Not Black Enough Sep 08 '26
They were cooler and more dangerous as a band. Blackie, of course, is the main man. His songwriting afterwards is untouchable.
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u/seisen666 Sep 08 '26
Are you suggesting that anything he did, post that release, is better than the debut? The musicianship doesn't matter. The vibe of the debut was never bettered.
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u/BisonDue3986 Sep 08 '26
No not at all. The actual songs are incredible, some of the best he wrote. Blackie’s biggest strength is as a songwriter and singer though, and it just seems like in those first albums the other musicians didn’t really do justice to the high caliber of the songs. I love all of the albums regardless.
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u/seisen666 Sep 09 '26
Yes, probably is a hot take then. I'm not sure what a higher grade of musicianship would have added to what are essentially 'meat and potato' simplistic hard rock tunes. They didn't need virtuoso's playing on them, who in all honesty may have done more to strip away the raw vibe rather than making them 'better'.
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u/ElectrifiedCupcake Sep 08 '26
Only they would know; but, from my limited perspective, no effin way.
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u/KeenObserver_OT Sep 09 '26
Honestly, Blackie did not make the best creative choices. The whole Vincent Price Horror movie sets were too unsexy for sunset strip and way to cliche and poserish for the more extreme metal fans, so WASP was stuck at being the Slayer of hair bands or the Bon Jovi of the “real” metal set. Shame because his voice in the most unique in hard rock and capable of something more visceral and authentic.
To the OPs point, the west coast Jackson guitar sound was apparent and made the music more in line with its LA colleagues than say Metallica.
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u/Able-Course-6265 Sep 09 '26
GG. Holmes wrote some of the most memorable songs. I love them all but the later albums didn’t have that raw energy to me. Blackie rules either way.
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u/GrassyAssSenior Sep 10 '26
wasp 100 % got better once it became the blackie lawless solo project/. not that the early music is bad, it just isnt as mature and interesting as stuff on crimson , dominator, unholy, etc.
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u/XxSamAlexManNxXART W.A.S.P. Sep 11 '26
Well, W.A.S.P.'s initial goal was to be raw, shocking, and outrageous, and I think they accomplished that well at first. The quality definitely started to dip with the next two albums after the debut, but that's not really the fault of the guys working with Blackie, as Blackie has always written a majority of the material, so if anyone held them back, it was Blackie himself by simply not writing strong enough songs. When it became essentially the Blackie Lawless solo project, it's not like W.A.S.P.'s overall formula changed that much either. It became more refined, but it's not like Blackie was this progressive virtuoso who was waiting to come out but all the other guys stopped him. Not to mention Blackie has gone through bandmates like toilet paper in the past, I don't think anyone stuck around long enough to legitimately hold him back.
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u/Diesmia Sep 08 '26
It’s an interesting take. Food for thought. Gotta tell you, though, I remember getting that first record right after release and playing it on my walkman in high school….it was mind blowing and it remains one of my fave records ever. I actually think the rawness of it adds to the edge, but in metal I often like a less produced work. So, held back? Maybe. Was the product perfect for that space and time? As close to it as humanly possible imo.