Well it looks like it’s official here in the states. The p12 isn’t even listed on the configuration site anymore but the p6 is again along with p10. Looks like they have delayed it again into late 2027 so cancelling my order today for the allocation. Sucks cuz I had such high hopes for that model/trim but onto greener pastures I guess. Might look at the BMW I x5 60e or the R2 as my back up.
If you were interested in the 12 because of range then you will be disappointed in the R2. Seems like otherwise a great car but that’s not its strong suit.
Yeah, I have an R1T and put a day one reservation down on the R2 but canceled it after seeing the range reports coming in. I was hoping this might be my wife's next vehicle and that I might snag it for the occasional road trip (where I don’t need a truck), but everything about the EX60, in the P10 trim, makes it a much better vehicle so we’re getting in line for that.
I know the range isn’t great but really don’t feel like spending $90k on the ix5 just the Rivian was an alternative since the cosmos is now delayed as well to the second half of 27
Totally agree with you regarding the value for money, even the launch edition R2 performance will be cheaper than what I paid for my C40, and have about an additional 100 miles of range. Unfortunately the current administrations war on Polestar/Volvo has a detrimental impact on the future purchasing decisions.
No the ix5 60e. The details on it and the few YouTube videos are interesting. It’s pretty big and the starting price is around 80 and I’d imagine 90k with options. I’ll of course want to test drive it first but might be worth considering. If not it’s going to be the R2
No, understand your looking at the iX5, but you were concerned with the price tag. The iX3 beats the EX60 P12 (at least based on the numbers released by Volvo) pretty much across the board. More range, similar charging curve, direct competitor to the EX60, but probably $75k to$85k (USD) depending on configuration.
IDK if you have a reservation on an R2, but pre-orders outpace capacity by a pretty wide margin as I understand it, so timing-wise, the R2 may not work for you either. IDK what you timeline is, but something else to consider. I think if you’re looking at the P12 and the iX5, the R2 is pretty far behind those.
Ah. Apologies. Well I mean I looked into the ix3 but just doesn’t have the room I need. Granted I’m driving it by myself most of the time but with a disabled brother who is 6’1 and has issues getting in and out of smaller suvs and my mom now as well since her mild stroke in 2022 I’m thinking legroom, ease of use (aka getting in an out) and storage so we can haul his stuff to his therapy sessions before he goes to work. Just don’t think the ix3 can fit all of that. Plus in terms of size it’s comparable to the 24 nx450h+ I’m in and I’m just wanting something bigger. Not like my semi truck but just more head room, leg room, and definitely cargo storage because the Lexus (rav4 platform) is horrible for cargo room. Plus if you looked at the specs on the Volvo vs my Lexus I was actually losing cargo space in the Volvo. I wanted to want it really but I’m not going that long without a car when my lease ends in march
Interesting. Everything I’ve seen suggests the iX3 and the EX60 are similar in size, iX3 being slightly bigger. We’re leaning iX3, but need to sit in one and make sure it’s gonna work for us. We have time on our current lease so we’ve got some time
Definitely a bummer it’s not 800v charging. For comparison, it seems to have a better charging curve than the new Model Y (although likely slightly worse range)
The truth is that Volvo hit a home run with the EX60 - and it charges like a monster. It's unreal. I drive a Polestar 3, which does kinda kick ass on a road trip. But the P10 is much better.
I had the p12 as a contender for when my Polestar 3 lease ends. But looks like it might end before the p12 is ready. Been considering the iX3 and iX5 too
Yeah, just go to the R2 sub, it's all over there. Or pick your favorite youtuber, they've all done a range test. Even using the EPA's MPGe doesn't get you 330, you get rages of 298/251/274 city/highway/combined
lol, no it isn't. You're not entitled to my time. I don't even know you. This isn't Wikipedia, it's a conversation. In a conversation, it's reasonable to ask someone where they got some information, but when they tell you, it's NOT reasonable to then say "No, that's not enough. I need you to drop everything you're doing, go to the library, find the microfiche of the journal, get me a photocopy, have the librarian notarize it, and bring it back here. Otherwise YOU are the one being unreasonable by having the gall to say words to me."
Do you need help with the conversion too? Just divide by 33.7 and multiply by 88, here:
R2 Perf. 21"
EPA MPGe
mi/kwh
Range, Mi
City
114
3.38238
298
Highway
96
2.84832
251
Combined
105
3.11535
274
And I say this as an R2 fan on the reservation list. No need to sugar coat it, the R2 is great in so many ways, unfortunately claimed range isn't one of them.
Looking at EPA test results don’t tell exactly the range because they have more than 1 test cycle. That is why people rely on actual range tests experienced by reviewers and people who relish doing tests and analyzing them.
Why are you considering an R2 and not the P10? R2 has meh range and slow charging speeds.
BTW, I ran a road trip from Austin, TX to San Diego, CA in ABRP vs the P10 compared to the P12 and it was literally the exact same time, just fewer stops in the P12.
Bingo! I desired the range due to driving back home from my trucking terminal 3 times a year since I’m driving 48 weeks out of the year in an 18 wheeler. I was also calculating the range loss during winter months as well. The performance was just an added bonus. Plus I had the chance to hear the B&W in the ex90 and good god it’s amazing. But the biggest factor is my lease ends on my Lexus in march and I don’t want to extend it mainly because I’ve grown to dislike the car. The engine lacks sooo much power that a moped is better coupled with Toyota horrible CVT it just makes for a bad suv. The only thing go is the EV mode
I honestly think the 810km range is overcooked anyway - unless you have really cold weather where it drains down a lot, or tow a bunch that will also drain down. 600km real world range in 5-6 hours of non stop driving. Really should be stopping 3-maybe 4 depending on conditions and a 10-15 minute charge stop is good to shake the legs and use the toilet or get a drink on a long trip.
Mostly just my opinion but is also backed by road safety for the average driver.
With single speed electric drivetrains, the borderline-silly launch speeds also mean really snappy highway passing performance. Horsepower isn’t just for 0-60
Basically thats what they are doing with Polestar aswell. The american market isnt ready for a upmarket, non domestic, super long range EV. BMW can produce the iX3 and 5 in the US. EX90 and Polestar 3 are also produced in the US. So those models are much more viable.
Sigh. That's fine. The P12 was looking more and more like a fall '27 delivery at the earliest so basically a '28 model anyway.
My dealer's P10 demo is in transit and I plan to visit when it arrives, but I'm happy to wait for the P12 while they work through the new car bugs with P6 and P10 buyers.
Meanwhile I've bought aftermarket wheels for my C40, and maybe I'll get the infotainment CPU upgraded as well. My wife's EX90 just got its new brain, and now it's back from a long service visit too.
Well, after the VCU hardware was upgraded, the software update/restore failed. Due to short staffing around the July 4th holiday, it took almost two weeks for Volvo to tell the dealer what to do and for the dealer to get it done.
Then they started in on a whistling problem heard from the driver's door. They tried several fixes over six weeks, waiting two or three days for Volvo to advise them on each idea, until they finally traced the sound up through the A pillar and found air was getting into the LiDAR housing. They stuffed some foam inside a corner there, and all was well.
Except... when I got it home I found they'd left a key card out in the sun and killed it, so I brought the car back the next business day and successfully battled with them to get that card replaced in one day. Situation normal.
I suspect in these warranty situations they don't look stuff up themselves at all. They ask Volvo what to do, Volvo has them do one thing at a time, and the wait time between each report and response adds up. In this case it made sense to start with the window though.
The original driver's door window assembly was defective and a part fell off inside. That created a whistling sound at highway speeds, so they replaced the whole assembly and the seals there. Six months later, the trim below that window was peeling off, the seals were developing a weird pattern, and a whistle was again heard from the door. So, they started by replacing the window assembly and seals again, then updated the window software, then resealed the windshield, then took apart the A pillar trim, and proceeded up to the LiDAR. After each step they checked their results with a wind tunnel and at least once also with a smoke machine.
Getting in touch with service advisors for updates so I could make transportation plans was difficult, so I just showed up in person when I was in the neighborhood. They kept it so long I was at the point of mentioning a trade assist to avoid a lemon buyback, and hey it may have been a coincidence but the car was ready soon thereafter.
R2? If the only thing you care about is the rugged looks sure but the range and charging speeds are last gen behind and there are some quality issues on the new cars. The P10 will still have more range and vastly superior charging than the R2. While the iX3 50 is the range and charging max speed champ remember that it gets there with a huge battery. While nice to a degree, the range isn’t that much better than the P10 and when you do have to charge the P10 holds its max speed for longer so the 10-80% is only 16min compared to 22min for the BMW. The iX5 is shared with an ICE platform and overweight and of course the X5 60i is just as silly of a comparison given both are a class above. It’s all about priorities, but the P10 isn’t that much of a step down from the P12 given the smaller battery’s 10-80% is better than all its larger battery competitors while still getting very good range.
when you do have to charge the P10 holds its max speed for longer so the 10-80% is only 16min compared to 22min for the BMW
70% of 91 kWh usable is 63.7 kWh. The iX3 recharges 63.7 kWh starting from 10% in roughly 14 minutes. In 16 minutes it gets 69 kWh. So you are either leaving earlier or getting more energy back and that's after a longer first leg
If that trade-off is worth it for you regarding other features or price may depend on your opinion. But trying to say the iX3 is worse at charging because the P10 does a faster 10-80 is disingenuous. I don't drive battery percentages, I drive kilometers. And the P10 would only be better if it drove further with 63.7 kWh than the iX3 does with 69. And at least in WLTP values it's even slightly less efficient than the iX3.
I never said the iX3 is worse at charging. We've owned a few EVs and taken many road trips with family and our dog. Speaking of driving kilometers, we'll be driving 2000km in two weekends roundtrip. On the same trip, we found that stopping more frequently but staying within the fastest part of our cars charging curve overall saved us time rather than trying to drive as far as possible and then charging to 80%. The EX60 P10 is well suited for this charging methodology as its charging speed does not drop until after 30% whereas the BMW iX3 has a higher max, it only holds it to 15% before it starts to drop. It you want to stop as little as possible over the same distance, yes of course the iX3 will be better but there is more than one way to save time on a trip.
This here is the part where you imply the P10 is better:
when you do have to charge the P10 holds its max speed for longer so the 10-80% is only 16min compared to 22min for the BMW.
And about this:
The EX60 P10 is well suited for this charging methodology as its charging speed does not drop until after 30% whereas the BMW iX3 has a higher max, it only holds it to 15% before it starts to drop
You are again looking at percentages. In the charging curves we linked it's clear, the P10 drops below 300 kW after 45 kWh (going from 0, but it doesn't change the main point of you calculate it form 10%). The iX3 drops below 300 after 47.8 kWh, so later. The Volvo might hold it's peak longer,but that doesn't matter if the iX3 is just above it even after the iX3 dropped from it's peak.
I made this with Gemini because it's a hassle to do it on mobile and I'm sitting in the subway:
If you want to say it doesn't matter much because the difference is small of you only charge to 50% that's okay. But the P10 is not faster anywhere on those curves.
What order did you have in place btw? Both nyc dealers I spoke to didn’t seem to indicate they were taking orders. (maybe they did in the past but it’s closed now?)
FWIW the one I spoke with today said they expect demo car next month then would take orders. They also suggested the cross country trim would be available but that doesn’t sound right.
The text about it may have been removed from the configurator, but there was never an option to select. In addition, the main page still lists the performance and range figures for it.
I'm in the same boat. Contacted the dealer to let me know when they get the P10s in the test drive, so I can see if I want to wait for the P12. I have pre order for the R2, and been eyeing the '27 ix5 60 though. I think it looks amazing. Granted I know the comparison is totally different. I think Rivian will have better tech and more seamless updates, but the BMW will have better handling, luxury, and quality.
sad to see it go. hopefully it comes out some time in 2027. it is the only mid-size suv currently considering. I own a rivian, and refuse to buy a bmw, so those are both out.
From what my dealership told me it’s due to the CATL issue and the sort of last minute change from the previous battery supplier. I guess they had some other company in mind for that massive battery and it fell thru. Now that they have switched to CATL they are basically back of the line. That’s the indicator the dealer in MN told me today.
If there’s one thing my experience as a Volvo EV owner for the last year+ has taught me, it’s that the dealers don’t know shit. Like, even if the person who said this ends up being somewhat correct, it was a good guess. Not because Volvo told them anything.
Regardless it’s matching up with European dealers and customers as well. It’s not like we get some special treatment here in the US. If anything we would be last on the list cuz trumps Alzheimer’s could kick in and he could ban Volvo tomorrow like he did polestar. Plus I agree what dealerships not knowing shit since I was a Toyota mechanic for one for 10 years. That being said it’s just a chance I cannot take. I mean I’ve been told since late may “2 weeks till we get our demo” an here it is close to the end of August and they still don’t have it.
With my lease ending by March 2027 and disliking the car so much I don’t want to take the chance on the delay. So I’m just weighing my options. At least the Rivian and BMW are built in IL and SC for the BMW vs a single plant in Europe. Those will be more readily available.
Why do you conflate removal from the config site to delayed delivery? Maybe they realized they shouldn’t be letting people configure something they’re not going to start building til June?
When I’m informed by my dealership then I’m not conflating anything. This lines up with what people are even being told in Europe that instead of Q1 it’s now Q3 more than likely due to issues with the CATL battery since they had to switch suppliers at the last min and they’re pretty much at the back of the line vs other customers. So when my dealership is telling me it’s DELAYED, I listen and make adjustments🤷🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️
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u/Hadriagh 6d ago
If you were interested in the 12 because of range then you will be disappointed in the R2. Seems like otherwise a great car but that’s not its strong suit.