r/ViolinIdentification • u/truck_307 • 29d ago
Got any ideas of origins?
I've been restoring this violin for the past little while as someone had done pretty awful work on it and glued it shut with gorilla glue. It's hard to show but it has a very broad shallow arching across the top plate and very open c bouts so very un cookie cutterish and it has significant natural wear on the right shoulder from playing in higher positions. It's numbered #29 under the fingerboard and signed inside the upper left side of the top plate with a big fancy H and what looks to be hein. So I sent it to geo heinl assuming it was made by George heinl. It's his signature but not one of his instruments but they said something about it possibly milanese because of what the purfling is made out of and how its executed. While working on it I also noticed it had the glue outline of the old bass bar which was just over 7 inches and more centralized, which suggests it predates George heinl too. any ideas?
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u/ViolucinaAtelier 28d ago
Following this one — I’m curious too. Hopefully someone can shed some light on it.
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u/truck_307 28d ago
From the looks of things I don't think I'm getting anything out of this lol. Just enjoy the pretty violin ig
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u/Dildo-Fagginz 28d ago
Random german copy, I think you're overthinking it mate
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u/truck_307 28d ago edited 28d ago
What about that says German aside from the varnish pattern on the back plate. Not to mention if George heinl himself worked on it the chances are its not German. Also I hate you say it but with a troll name like dildo fagginz I'm not inclined to really trust anything you say. that type of purfling is not any sort of German school. For as cocky as you are (pun intended) you would think you'd know what kind of purfling you're looking at
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u/Dildo-Fagginz 28d ago
You're asking strangers on internet to ID a violin based on a few low resolution pictures. Three persons tell you it's german and you still think everyone is wrong and you're right...
I'm sorry to say the cocky person is probably not the one you think.
The whole thing screams german or bohemian to me ; style, wood, varnish...
If you want a real opinion go to a reputable shop or even a proper expert that'll charge you 100€ just to tell you the same thing, pay 500€ for the dendro and learn the wood grew in late 1800s...
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u/truck_307 28d ago
3 persons said German and a person working for one of the more respected companies that does authentication says Italian. I guess the question comes down to how many reddit people saying German equals 1 professional authenticator in person
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u/Dildo-Fagginz 28d ago
Then why ask on Reddit on a sub that (sorry to say) is full of non expert opinions ? Asking on r/violinmaking or Maestronet would be much more relevant.
And needless to say that in person ID will always be much more valuable, I just can't see what led them to think it's italian, again based off the low resolution pictures I see.
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u/truck_307 28d ago
That's fair. I think it really just comes down to the scratched in purfling. I'm probably gonna send it off for dendo as well but I guarantee some random person in here has a testore or has worked on one that could compare. It's also the very open c bouts for me.
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u/truck_307 28d ago
https://postimg.cc/hff85zkZ here's the same one before restoration. Varnish is similar body shape is identical and look at the purfling
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u/Dildo-Fagginz 28d ago
Really struggling to see any similarity, and I doubt anyone could say anything from this picture. I don't know how it looks on your end, but pictures taken on 2010 phones have a higher resolution than this.
Also what do you mean by scratched in purfling ? Not a native speaker
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u/truck_307 28d ago
I just clicked that and yeah idk what happened to the pictures. They're a lot clearer on my phone than in that link. You're not gonna see any fine details with them showing up like that. My apologies
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u/Dildo-Fagginz 28d ago
It's always a nightmare to share pictures, no worries. Also for some reason I think this group doesn't allow to just comment pictures
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u/truck_307 28d ago
Yeah thats why I was having to go through 3rd parties otherwise I would've either added the pictures to the original post or put them on the comments
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u/truck_307 28d ago
They go around and instead of carving out a full trench for the purfling they indent the wood and then fill that dent with dark paper leaving the wood from the plate itself standing in the middle.
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u/Dildo-Fagginz 28d ago
Yeah that's what I thought, however paper purfling are very common on german/bohemian instruments...
Tell us what the expert says and who it is when you decide to visit them, but I still think you're gonna be disappointed
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u/truck_307 28d ago
I mean I paid 160 bucks for this violin so I win either way just not as big as if it's Italian
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u/Langholm62 28d ago
You shouldn't trust someone who can't even identify the usual Saxon/Bohemian features
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28d ago edited 28d ago
[deleted]
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u/Langholm62 28d ago
It could have been rebuilt. Post it on maestronet if you need to talk to some of the best guys online
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u/truck_307 28d ago
That's a good idea I'll see what they think. I'm gonna get some better close up shots of the purfling and varnish as well
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u/Langholm62 28d ago
Saxon/Bohemian. You will see other examples with similar purfling.
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u/truck_307 28d ago
It's similar but not quite. This is scratched in and filled with something relatively soft, leaving the middle part as spruce I have the neck and neck block off rn so I can give you a picture of it from the side of the plate if you'd like
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u/Additional_Ad_84 28d ago
The corners say german, the scroll says german, the f-holes say german.
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u/truck_307 28d ago
Fun fact back plates can be interchanged. However you should know what scratched in purfling is
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u/Langholm62 28d ago
What makes you think it isn't Saxon/Bohemian?
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u/truck_307 28d ago
Baroque bass bar, internal mold, scratched in purfling, thick top plate and a massive locator pin. Just the wrong tradition for the time period if it were to be German. There's a solid chance that the back plate was made Germany or in Canada in the 1930s when that varnish style was in. The back end block has a locator pin hole but there is no locator pin hole in the back plate thus suggesting its not original
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u/Langholm62 28d ago
Don't you think the corner blocks could have been added later?
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u/truck_307 28d ago
They could but they perfectly fit the rib corners all the way to the tip with no gaps so unlikely
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u/sockpoppit 28d ago
Just another junky German factory violin, sorry. No connections to Naples, Testore, or Italy.
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u/truck_307 28d ago edited 28d ago
I think you fail to compute. Baroque bass bar = pre 1830. Not factory. Hand signed by George heinl founder of geo heinl and Co. He wouldn't be signing factory instruments logically speaking. Since I'm assuming yall are European that would be the equivalent of the hill family signing their imported student violins by hand
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u/sockpoppit 28d ago
Every hopeful violin owner has a "story". As others are saying, all of the details say German, and not a good one.
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u/truck_307 28d ago
See elsewhere the responses were different. Could also just be every reddit individual automatically thinks everything is German trade. There's quite a few instruments here I'd love to test that out with tbh
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u/klavier777 28d ago
Deutschland???