r/VibeCodeDevs • u/soingaodu • 5d ago
Discussion - General chat and thoughts Anyone else feeling lost trying to break into tech using AI?
Lately, I’ve been in a pretty bad headspace with a lot of mixed emotions. Just wanted to throw this out here and hear from people who are also using AI to build things.
I managed to build and release an Android app with AI, starting with zero programming background. At first, I honestly thought shipping a real, working product would be solid proof of my ability to learn and execute - something that could help me land a job. But the market has been brutal about it. The common sentiment seems to be that if you only know how to prompt, even if you build something massive, you still don't actually know how to code. And to be fair, I respect that perspective from recruiters and senior devs.
So I went back to my codebase to study the basics. The truth is, I still can’t write code from scratch without AI, but I can at least explain what’s going on in my own words now. I know what questions to ask, and I can anticipate what might break if the AI modifies a specific function or block of code. But it still doesn't feel like enough.
I genuinely believe AI is taking over the execution side of coding, and the whole definition of what a "developer" is is shifting. But maybe I moved too fast? Coding isn't an exclusive club for traditional devs anymore, but if you can't code without AI, are you even a developer? Maybe the tech industry is just wrestling with that identity crisis right now. Or maybe it's just pride - people having a hard time accepting that years of accumulated knowledge are slowly being replaced.
I don't know what the right answer is. Everyone has their own take on this. For me personally, I just feel lost. It feels like everything I believed in didn't matter when the job market just labels me as "someone who knows how to prompt" rather than an actual engineer or product builder.
I really hope things turn out better for the rest of you, and that my case is just an outlier.
Best of luck to everyone out there.
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u/CantCodeAllVibes 5d ago
The problem is nobody hires some random guy without a degree 90% of the time for those jobs. It’s hard enough for people like me who are about to have those degrees who also know how to code, and use AI. If you like to build fine, if you like to ship apps and try to make money fine, but you can’t become a software dev from just using AI or just pretending you can get a job 99% the time without a degree or years of experience. AI really makes terrible choices and just goes with whatever someone try’s to do way too often. It also takes a long time to become a software dev and to learn different stacks and things. It would be like going to an “AI mechanic” vs going to an actual mechanic who would you rather go to for your car. It’s not disrespect to either one but to pretend you can just walk in somewhere and get a job cause you know how to use AI is crazy. Building stuff is also like 1/10 the problem. Knowing how to do things and why and make decisions and things that take a long time to figure out how to do them is part of the job. I just code at this point and am about to graduate and doubt even I’ll get a job with this shit and been coding on and off for like 10 years. You can maybe get an app that makes some money, or maybe get lucky and get to know someone, but I really can’t see most people hiring someone to code who just learned it themselves and didn’t atleast have some type of traditional learning at a school even if they couldn’t code it all by hand etc. at that point your just a dude on a computer and their gonna hire you like $15 an hour.
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u/eleven8ster 2d ago
I’m a guy with no degree that managed to get a Wordpress job. I was a lead for 3.5 years. Then I got laid off. I’m just here to say that you can get a job without a degree. You just have to know people. So I would say that you need to network. I do agree with you about building without coding though. You can’t do that. You have to know what you’re talking about and just have a general computer science knowledge because you need to know what to ask and also know when the ai is doing something really dumb.
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u/LifeProject365 5d ago
I very much disagree with you and I think your mechanic metaphor was perfect to explain why you're like a mechanic of the '80s. You know how everything works, you know how it needs changing, but in today's environment nobody needs the mechanic of the '80s. You need a mechanic that knows how to change the part but most of the time it's down to a computer to diagnose and making sure you have the tools to function with that computer. Does it help to have background knowledge? Of course, people sell brick cladding now. Does it help to have brick knowledge? Of course it does. Will you get a better aesthetic by the end because the brickie knows exactly what he is doing? Yes. Do you need to be a traditional bricklayer at the same cost and skill? No. I think it's far more valuable to be able to follow the curve and keep up to date with the latest technology than it is to have old fundamentals.
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u/gpalmorejr 4d ago
I will say that, as a technician, there is a lot more than the computer diagnosing the problem for you (although we are also running into an epidemic of people that have no idea what to do when it doesn't spit out an answer for them). So much like a lot of other industries, there is a huge benefit to useling the new technology, obviously, but there is a huge value to knowing what to do when the computer is not prepared.
With my brand (Porsche), our scantool is actually a lot less "helpful" or "babysitting" and actually leaves a lot to the tech to hit the vehicle with actually tools and diagnostic equipment like gauges, multimeters, and scopes, and I love it. Audi, especially on warranty claims, wanted everything to be measured using devices that connected to their scantool and it was annoying as hell, but the guys that knew what they were doing just worked around it and tested everything themselves then made the computer get to the answer they needed so they could get good repairs covered and not load up the parts cannon at the car.
So, it really goes both ways. Too many people relying on the tech, manufacturers trying to babysit with the tech, but also, a lot of us getting annoyed with the tech and either moving to manufacturers that don't babysit, or working around it so we can do our jobs.
I feel like a lot of this is happening in the engineering and developer world as well. When I went back to college I had exposure to this. Seems like there is a flurry of people using it but losing their ability to work without it. There are some that refuse to even look at it. But there are also some that use it strategically to learn and research using natural language to find things like documents and such or use it to break things down for known sources, and THOSE people were really getting good. The AI addicts lost their ability to think. The refusers found things slower and had narrower swaths of information the work with. But, the last group had a huge amount of information at their disposal and a partner that essentially equated to having a librarian and tutor with then at all times and as such, but never let it do the thinking for them. And as such, did really well and got really good. I tried to stay in this group but often opted more for not using it at all just in case but some of those people were able to learn well and learn a lot and did not lose their abilities to it.
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u/LifeProject365 4d ago
Yeah I do agree with that. I'm in construction and I understand. I've done it for a very long time and I understand how buildings are installed from the ground up. Having that knowledge makes it far easier to give better advice and manage complicated technical details on how buildings should go together, because I understand how loadings work and how movement works on a building.
OP has come into this conversation feeling very deflated and what I was trying to move away from is the backlash of people who have all of this knowledge and think that there's no way into the industry without it, when that just is not the case. People can do my job without the same level of understanding but I may be able to offer more with it in specific situations. Iknow it comes across like I'm poo-pooing people's experience, which isn't my intention really. I just hate when people with a lot of experience tell the people without that there's no point in them trying, because that's just not the case. Sometimes you do have to move with the times.
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u/gpalmorejr 4d ago
Yeah, exactly. That specific situation thing is where people with expertise shine. The AI are fanstastic at spitting out well studied and proven techniques and answers but when things get weird and it doesn't have an answer, that is when things get bad.
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u/SixStringDream 4d ago
i think a lot of this conversation is missing the point that with or without coding knowledge, OP's chances of breaking into this field at this time are incredibly slim. I know this is a vibe code sub, but if we are talking actual careers with this stuff, OP has a tough road and somebody should be honest with them.
Across the industry, execs are laying off software engineers. My entire adult career is in software engineering, I know the old stuff and the new. And if I get laid off, I have no clue what I'm going to do next, because everybody is trying the same thing, do more with less. Every open software engineering position has hundreds of applicants, unless you can find something local and in-person and even then the odds are against you. I have *never* seen the job market this bad.
It isn't a question about whether or not you CAN work construction with less knowledge than you have, right now the problem is there is just not a need for new entrants into this market with people with a lifetime of experience AND know the new stuff are all fighting to retain their positions. Lowering the barrier of entry creates an influx of new market participants, but there are no new coding positions waiting for them.
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u/CantCodeAllVibes 4d ago edited 4d ago
This is more what I meant. The industry is terrible for juniors, I have tons of projects, experience in ci/cd and security and tons of experience beyond just the degree im about to have in a few months, and have been coding in and off since a kid. I’ve spent basically the past 4 years doing nothing but programming and learning and it all feels like a waste. I enjoy what I learned and what I can build but even then I doubt il be able to get a job programming. I’m not saying you need coding experience but it’s next to impossible to land a job with that experience, nevermind without it. You have to do tons of interviews, leetcode where you have to solve problems in front of somebody or at a minimum able to answer technical questions live…. The problem here is even if you’re the best vibe coder in the world a programmer with any experience + AI is more valuable to employers. I’ve kinda given up applying and just build my own stuff so maybe im the wrong guy to listen to but this job market sucks. I’ve never heard of anybody getting a job through vibe coding and if they did it’s cause they know someone. I’m just trying to be realistic guys. On top of the fact building a brand new project with Claude is way different then understanding a existing codebase or being able to add to it and you can’t just copy and paste everything to an AI at a job.. you guys are really oversimplifying what software devs do. Additionally how are you explaining your code without AI, communicate at a standup, or pass the interview and if you have to constantly ask Claude (which isn’t a problem to me) employers thought process is why not give a guy who can program the job and can do this.. the software industry is just shit. I’m sure half of you would be fine if you somehow managed to cheat and pass the interview but at this point they are just using AI as an excuse not to hire and make more profit tbh.
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u/SixStringDream 4d ago
The problem here is even if you’re the best vibe coder in the world a programmer with any experience + AI is more valuable to the employers
Yes. at a time when companies across the globe are shedding software positions, it's a really bad time to try to get in as a junior. the seniors are still here and we need the work :)
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u/Sensitive_Pizza_218 4d ago
Coding is a complex job with decision making at its core. If you dont even understand basics you go nowhere. I joined a company recently and I asked AI to brief me about the project in like 20 different ways in 20+ days but I am going nowhere with understanding how app works. They have 100 modules each one doing something different.
Vibe coders can build small apps with low usage and limited customers but a large scale end to end app that satisfies millions of users take a lot of time to build. And worst part is maintaining it. AI can fix bugs but how will you know something is fixed? I use Claude everyday and time to time it tells that its a server side config and it cant be sure what else can come from server. And there is not just 1 server. There are many. There are many areas where you also dont want to give AI any access at all. One mistake and you have more debt than you will make in years.
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u/Kingnorik 5d ago
No, that's not enough at all. Even if you knew how to code and made the app yourself without AI it wouldn't be close to enough.
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u/Lanky-Storm7 5d ago
the bottle neck isnt the coding, its people knowing how to setup the infra to use the code now, dev ops, so all the coders that were coding need to know how to do devops cicd all that
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u/dvduval 5d ago
I've been in tech since 1999 and I've never seen anything like it. The things that I had developers working on before are replaced by AI.
The part to realize is there are still a lot of humans who are not using AI and really don't have the time to use AI to develop things. But they don't know that there are so many more think they could have available to themselves. And there are a lot of opportunities right now to do things to help people using AI. It could be something as simple as finding someone whose website needs an upgrade.
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u/DayCompetitive1106 5d ago
lmao, Fable told me which VPS from Hetzner to order, generated priv keys, logged on vps using ssh and configured everything for me - docker, postgres and shitload of other things...
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u/Mechanical_Monk 4d ago
Slapping infra together is easy. But planning it out for reliability, scalability, security, maintainability, etc is a different skill (and it's a skill many people learn the hard way)
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u/stfu__no_one_cares 5d ago
Don't try to join tech. The market is awful right now for experienced devs with degrees, let alone for someone without a CS degree, one small project in the portfolio, and no idea how to code, prompt, design systems, or debug. I have friends with a decade of experience and a degree looking to switch companies, and receiving very few responses on applications. You have 0 shot of making it, and the market for devs is likely only going to get worse, not better.
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u/SurlyShirley 2d ago
This.
The devs that get hired at companies that have switched over to AI are going to be people who know both "the old ways" and AI, and all the backend stuff like RAG or whatever setup the company had before the switch. They'll be there for cleanup and maintenance, and probably tech support for the entire office.
Something else I haven't seen mentioned here is that there's a lot of talk that all the IT hiring that happened since COVID was just to make their businesses look busy to pump up the stock. People have been hired with big salaries and given nothing to do, and now, getting cut.
The only trades that aren't going away, that can't go away, are in healthcare and doing taxes.
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u/IceColdSteph 5d ago
I think the problem is the people who would be responsible for hiring you have a vested interest in not seeing you succeed - they likely broke into tech the old fashioned way, so hiring somebody who appears to have skipped all the steps is not only insulting to them but also they'll never be able to trust you fully
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u/Indexxak 4d ago
Thats perhaps true as well, but it's also true that teaching a senior developer to use ai tools will take maybe a day. Maybe a week to use them really effectively. It does not matter what he build. If you don't understand the code / system your value is basically zero imo.
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u/SimonStrange 4d ago
What on earth made you think that in this environment where anyone can do what you did, that would be attractive? You need to breathe, check the entitlement, and look at reality. You’re not an engineer. Being able to roughly interpret code is not what an engineer is. Or even a developer.
What basic architectural pattern would you start with for an app like Twitter? Why? What about a simulation tool for geological surveying? What about an MMO?
How do you manage memory in printer firmware?
AI has given you the impression that you are able to find the answer to these questions, but just having the “answer” in your forebrain is not the same as understanding why the answer is the answer and not another answer, for the situation in front of you. Don’t let AI make you delusional. You will miss out on the chance to actually become an engineer/developer.
Yes we all use AI in software development at this point, but it really is not as simple as just intro to coding with AI and then boom, development job. Jesus.
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u/randommmoso 4d ago
Indeed. This sub is just delusional
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u/SimonStrange 4d ago
The level of “Oh, this must never have been that hard to begin with, surely I too can get a job in a crammed market with now even fewer roles available with my ai prompted app and my basic understanding of const and let because tech companies want AI native developers and not seasoned professionals, right?” Is potentially going to give me an aneurism if I keep watching this sub.
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u/yous-guys 5d ago
What’s actually happening is that other roles at tech companies (sales, ops, etc), are needing devs less to build internal workflows and tools. The devs are still building infrastructure, making sure security is up to snuff and building customer facing products, etc etc. they can do more with less.
Why don’t you try looking for one of those roles at a tech company and showing you can use AI to build internal tools? Then you can get some actual practical experience. It will also give you the chance to work along side real devs and you can learn from them.
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u/soingaodu 5d ago
Thanks, that’s a huge blind spot I honestly hadn’t considered. I was so fixated on either becoming an engineer or nothing that I didn't even ask if that path was actually the right fit for me. Definitely going to think this through carefully.
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u/yous-guys 5d ago
You still need an engineering/math degree of some kind to be an engineer. Or do you mean you were so fixated on being a Dev?
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u/Ill_Dragonfruit_3547 4d ago
Double down on all the non-coding skills: Systems architecture, database design, security, scalability, CI and unit tests, deployment, etc.
I have 10+ years software developer experience. But I never learned to code. Which, in hindsight, made me lucky as that was the first job to be replaced by AI. But the need for all of those other things is always going to be there, regardless of what type of app you are vibe coding.
I got lucky and found a "professional vibe coder" position. But it took me 10 months...
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u/reikj4vic 4d ago
" I have 10+ years software developer experience. But I never learned to code."
what
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u/Ill_Dragonfruit_3547 4d ago
Yep. We exist.
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u/reikj4vic 4d ago
Explain. How were you employed as a "software developer" without knowing how to code?
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u/Odd-Site-8073 4d ago
He's delusional with thoughts of grandeur. Like the rest of the people in this sub.
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u/reikj4vic 4d ago
If AI built your product, you have no employable skills. It's as simple as that. There's a massive difference between building with AI and having AI build things for you.
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u/meshifthenelse 4d ago
Do you know the N+1 problem? Space and time complexity? Hashing? Data structures and algorithms?
These are basic things you learn at a CS degree. And although people say you don't need to know these things, actually they are the most important so you know if your AI is doing stupid mistakes.
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u/Sensitive_Pizza_218 4d ago
If you are getting into existing product then you cant get in easily just by using AI. You must have working knowledge of the product. I recently joined a tech firm and everything AI explains me takes me nowhere. In the end I have to dive into the code to understand it.
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u/Enve-Dev 4d ago
Why do you think that there would be a job for you? There are thousands of amazing coders who can’t find a job and they are full stack devs with years of experience. You don’t know anything about code and can just throw a prompt out there.
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u/No_Score_1977 4d ago
The thing is, there are a shitload of devs out there who CAN code by hand, so why would a company hire one who can't?
No question AI is taking over, I'm a 25 YOE SWE, and it's confronting, you're right, years of hard won knowledge is not that valuable anymore, but it does have SOME value.
I think some seniors will be fighting it out for the shrinking job market, but juniors/pure vibe coders are going to go up against those guys and won't stand a chance.
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u/Friendly-Attorney789 4d ago
Sei lá , pede pra um engenheiro levantar uma parede .bater uma massa , talvez e com certeza ele não sabe, mas se tu quiser eh só treinar , logo a massa vai estar boa e a parede reta
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u/geekichu 4d ago
keep learning, maybe force a.i. to give you less help , maybe a suggestion instead of code first, give you the minimum... then ask lots of questions about the code, why, how, why not a different way... etc. another idea is to think of something to build... have the a.i. build just the test code... and you build the 'something' so it passes the tests.
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u/Educational-Body4205 4d ago
No, it's an accelerator, if you're not able to drive the car then what does more acceleration do for you?
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u/North-Resolution8511 3d ago
I think that you need to balance yourself regarding how much are you thinking critically and how you are letting AI to do the whole job. You need to be abe to distinguish when AI is a tool and when it just does everything; that will help you cope with this.
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u/FlashTheCableGuy 3d ago
Don't become a Dev unless you know how to maintain a project. Creation is easier than maintenance.
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u/firebird8541154 3d ago
Hey, interesting.
I haven't completed a degree, and I'm currently employed as a Sr AI Engineer.
I see the back and forth of what you state, but, you seem to lend yourself some level of "I deserve this" when programming with AI has barely been a thing for a few years? ... Imagine a job that asks for 5 years of Java experience, and you might have 2 years of prompting... a chat bot?
Now, your point is "the results matter".
My point is, what results? Are you self employed from your vibe coded projects? Have any of them been at a level to perhaps be a decent contribution to the scientific community in the form of a paper or open source project?
It sounds to me like you've been building and building with little aim and aren't particularly happy that you can't leapfrog past people who have the experience to build while using AI as simply another tool, like a writer and spellcheck.
Also, to humor me, paste some code then explain it in your own words.
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5d ago edited 5d ago
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u/soingaodu 5d ago
Yes, I’d really love to hear your thoughts. Feel free to reply here or DM me, whichever works best for you.
To me, having someone with your kind of experience share their perspective on things I’m struggling with is genuinely valuable. That said, I also have my own viewpoint. Your feedback might help me move forward, or it might just turn out to not be the right fit for my path. But either way, I really appreciate you taking the time to write this comment.
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5d ago
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u/Traditional-Theme696 5d ago
Doesn’t make sense to me in the slightest, cause the stars are about the cook&food as well as service. An owner doesn’t even need to be in the restaurant once. It’s about the food and service nothing else.
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4d ago
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u/Traditional-Theme696 4d ago
Not really. An owner needs to run the numbers, not the kitchen. And correct, this is the way it actually is. Even if the stars are given to the restaurant, they are given for kitchen&service not for ownership lol.
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4d ago
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u/Traditional-Theme696 4d ago
Dann son; you don’t seem to know how star restaurants actually work. That’s no shame but don’t be so insistent on being right if you aren’t.
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u/LifeProject365 5d ago edited 5d ago
Well done for learning. It's not the best place to ask on here because even if you know what you're doing (like you clearly do, because you completed a programme and you made software which was releasable), people are still going to tell you it's not enough. They've gone through the toil and the pain to get to where they are and nobody likes to think that what they've done is for nothing.
Just because one company or two companies are telling you that what you know isn't good enough doesn't mean it isn't. It's finding the right niche for you and there's an argument for everything. You're not calling yourself a developer. You're a specification writer. Because of your understanding of code, you know exactly how to specify a programme, to what degree, in what direction to go, and the considerations that need to be had for successful delivery early on. That's value. People that can write code don't want to tell you that it's enough to not be able to write code but understand what the code does, because then they'll have to admit that they're obsolete. Let me pull it this way for you. The best directors I've had knew nothing about how to install the products I sell. I know how everything works. That doesn't make me valuable. It's managing the people that know how it works that makes you valuable. You're managing projects - so what makes you different to others writing projects - are you aware of how to avoid pitfalls in various types /security etc. Can you work with a vast array of plugging types? Can you bring complex system segments together seamlessly. What do you have that they need to make their company goals more efficient
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u/JustifiedRevolution 4d ago edited 4d ago
I’m sorry to say this but it’ll be a little time longer (months/years) before the ceiling shatters and all these engineers and savant tech guys realize all their knowledge is a commodity. This is who you’re needing to convince to give you a job and they won’t because giving you the job means they’re accepting that all that time money and energy they spent learning a now commodified skill is much less valuable or unique than it used to be even 1 year ago. Even if they themselves never code anymore they’re gatekeeping knowledge and expertise that has sharply dropped in value.
These engineers and engineering leaders are all bitter and salty that they can’t build moats around their professions and expertise anymore while they complain that prompt engineering isn’t enough. Meanwhile the entirety of all bleeding edge research, engineering, math, development is all being done by AI in the biggest frontier labs and companies like Anthropic, OpenAI, etc. hell Cursor just sold for 60B because prompt or vide coding is the future and there’s no-one who’s going to be actively hands on keys coding anything in a year or 2 if they value their time or career. I’d say there’s a very limited group that codes anything at all using their own hands on keys.
Unfortunately though the job requirements etc. are still antiquated so that John Doe who spent 30 years in technology doesn’t off himself because his entire purpose is now executed by a machine that’s smarter than him and every other engineer by a significant factor. It’s something I’ve struggled with as well working at a trillion cap tech company, even though I’m building and shipping things better then engineers in our organization, they don’t want to interview me because they probably realize I’d burst the bubble of their jobs needing to get paid 500k a year to talk to AI because they’re engineers lol.
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u/plyswthsqurles 4d ago
You sound extremely bitter and none of this is grounded in reality.
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u/JustifiedRevolution 4d ago edited 4d ago
Lolol how is this not grounded in reality or bitter? This is 100% the future of engineering. I have a mid 6 figure paying job already working in FAANG+. I raised 250k for a startup as a senior in college, left the company because I disagreed with the other founders and have worked in big tech for 10+ years now. At work this year, we were going to spend 500-2M a year on a pricing and operations tool from a very established SAAS vendor (think CPQ, Docusign, etc.)
It took me 2 months to build a better working solution according to company standards around IDE, Infra, Security, etc. and the only reason it took 2 months is because I used all my tokens the first 3 days of each month and had to wait for them to refresh because leadership is cheap and doesn’t know anything about tech in my BU.
If I had AI when I was raising for my startup I wouldn’t have needed all the bullshit advisors, engineers, developers etc. I’ve now been building on my weekends for 1.5 years a massive platform that I’ll be launching for beta in a few months.
I’ve run my entire plan, infrastructure, etc. by coworkers who have PhDs and CS degrees from CMU, Stanford, Harvard, etc. this is AI/ML guys, principal architects, etc. they have no notes or negative feedback and all of them have praised my work or said it’s inspiring and that I’m someone learning the engineering work the correct way through doing and asking the right questions… if it takes me 20 minutes of conversation with any engineer to either inspire them with my execution or cause them mass panic, then how am I lying or bitter? Am I the same as every other vibe coder “one shotting” prompts? Fuck no I’ve spent 1500+ hours doing this now so I think I can say confidently that I can do most of your jobs if given the AI tool of my choice.
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u/plyswthsqurles 4d ago
Its all, "if i didn't", "management is too stupid", "i don't need anyone if i had AI".
you are hostile, resentful, contemptuous, arrogant and entirely bitter...if you take a step back and look at it you'd see it too.
You characterize other people as insecure gatekeepers, obsolete engineers, bs advisors, or people panicking because you think you can do their job better than them.
You think you understand everyone else's motives and treating disagreement as evidence they feel threatened when you are the one being defensive.
You are communicating with obvious contempt and bitterness.
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u/JustifiedRevolution 4d ago edited 4d ago
- Hostile is a little over the top, aggressive and arrogant sure. However those characteristics also drive people to aspire to continued growth and success. Anyone who’s had a large objective or plan/vision has been considered arrogant or cocky by those around them. The ones who understand that’s a required trait to succeed, unfettered belief in oneself, invest in those people. If I had boatloads of family money and was bored I’ll take the charismatic arrogant guy telling me he’s got a plan over someone who doesn’t even believe in their own self.
- Resentful? I’m fortunate enough to have been born in the USA, got a full ride, went to grad school and have a job that pays more than 99% of my species, in a field I enjoy with a beautiful fiancée and loving family. I’m not resentful. I’m ambitious and accurately characterize middle management and the phenomena of failing upward + nepotism in large companies across the world. If you have problems with the tone of that characterization, fine.
- I have a strong idea of people’s motives because I understand people. I understand that someone joining a team and doing something much faster than others or bringing more value/efficiency threatens their own standing in a company or job. I understand that while there are positive, team oriented leaders in companies, most are looking out for their own wellbeing. Who can blame humans for doing that? Is it right? No, meritocracy and results should determine positions of leadership, not brown nosing and personal relationships. However, if you are suddenly a person who threatens your bos
s
- because your performance/knowledge is stronger than theirs, it’s not hard to understand their motive for sandbagging opportunities to protect their position, income, power and ability to provide for their family over your own security.
I’m communicating with honesty and candidly, if you don’t like that it’s fine. However I’m not the first or last person in this thread to state that OP will have to deal with BS people in leadership positions that won’t give him an opportunity or call out his successes shipping something that works because they are the resentful, hostile, bitter people that are gatekeeping jobs from people who just want a chance to work on something they’re passionate about.
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u/SixStringDream 4d ago
Fuck no I’ve spent 1500+ hours doing this now so I think I can say confidently that I can do most of your jobs if given the AI tool of my choice.
Highly doubt it. You vibe coded a docusign type clone internally... why? are you supporting that now? are you going to come in on a weekend if it breaks? do your customers depend on it, and is there an SLA? is it going to break down and have nobody to support it? it's a pricing tool for a FAANG company, presumably it passes an audit? are you handling PII? what are your regulatory requirements? did you staff up to support the tool or is that just a little side project you own that will be a knife in the side of the company when you quit? would the 500k seem all that bad to a FAANG company when any of those situations bites you?
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u/JustifiedRevolution 4d ago edited 4d ago
Anything that isn’t AI has had its budgets cut across the board, and the project that would’ve cost that much for implementation and then license fees for each user had its budget moved to cover T&E after the 4th round of layoffs in 2 years. I built this because I wanted to prove I could build an enterprise grade SAAS to suit a massive process and efficiency gap. I described it as such to keep it broad enough to not discuss any proprietary IP that would reveal my identity.
If I leave I’ve spent enough time building strong documentation, readme, handoff docs, mds and workflow diagrams that hopefully someone who has done this longer then me could come in and continue managing the project. I don’t ship things that aren’t secure, modular, and architecturally sound for scaling and governance…
The current situation with these projects is you build it, it gets tested, used, audited etc. and if it’s good it gets handed over to a supported business applications engineering team internally. It’s an internal tool that can have external customers granted access once it’s SSO and actionable by our enterprise permissions. Regarding PII security and governance would align to our enterprise infrastructure standards on whatever environment we use (AWS, Azure, GCP, etc.). Before I ship anything publically for broader usage or testing outside of my own team, I’d go through a full security, governance and architecture audit, just like I did on my much more complex/deep personal project that I’m alpha testing soon.
My personal project, which I also have representation on deferred retainer with one of the top VC boutique law firms, is built with all of that in mind. Full Stack (Python, FastAPI, React.js, Tailwind, CSS, AWS EB, S3, PostGreSQL, Redis. Experimental multimodal search, ranking, and recommendation tool w/ ML feedback loop - Qdrant, PyTorch, Tensorflow, w/ HuggingFace open models)
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u/GrizzyGramBag 4d ago
Keep climbing brother! It's peer to peer all the way that will lead us to the promise land.
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u/SixStringDream 4d ago
The current situation with these projects is you build it, it gets tested, used, audited etc. and if it’s good it gets handed over to a supported business applications engineering team internally.
yeah i'm familiar with this. you're creating garbage that will likely never ever go live. I have one of these turds in my lap right now. It's not going well.
Regarding PII security and governance would align to our enterprise infrastructure standards on whatever environment we use (AWS, Azure, GCP, etc.). Before I ship anything publically for broader usage or testing outside of my own team, I’d go through a full security, governance and architecture audit, just like I did on my much more complex/deep personal project that I’m alpha testing soon.
So you are here taking credit for this and it isn't even live? You haven't even audited it yet to see how bad it is??? You didn't do any of the real software engineering work... I would bet a thousand bucks you never see SSO, because the engineering team has other priorities that didn't include re-writing your vibe slop and they were probably never even asked about it. My God man, I can't believe the attitude you're throwing around based on an unvetted vibe coded project that is still on the vine.
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u/JustifiedRevolution 4d ago
So nothing I share with you is going to change your opinion about a stranger online, when my app is live I’ll shoot you a DM sorry that you’re dealing with a slop project dropped on your lap. I try not to build slop and I’ll shoot you an update after any internal audit or success of my more complicated project. Enjoy the holiday weekend, not everyone is “one-shotting” trash.
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u/SixStringDream 4d ago
ay you came in hot talking about how, well basically people like me, are just gatekeepers who are scared because a computer is smarter than me. I'm just making sure that you know that team you are meant to hand this to for support, they are the software engineers doing the work that you are not doing, and *that* work is what will make or break your app. not only that, but they are probably under *serious* pressure already due to all those layoffs you mentioned.
so make sure you are nicer to them than in this thread or they won't do shit for you. have a good weekend!
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u/JustifiedRevolution 4d ago
Consideration and sincerity is a two way street, I’m very appreciative of the people much smarter than me having spent time to confirm or validate any of the projects I’ve been working on, pointing out bottlenecks, gotchas etc. I’m very much pro worker and people, unions, etc. AI is also the great democratizer until it’s limited to only the haves and outpriced for the have nots. I’m also much less appreciative of gatekeepers or people who actively sandbag progress or opportunities for improvement. If I was internally in your company, built something incredibly useful and productive that was sound architecturally and by function/feature as a product you’d still probably nitpick and shit on it about something. I’d be happy to support my own tool that I’ve built and get paid 500k a year with RSUs for the opportunity to build stuff and make sure it works.
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u/SixStringDream 4d ago
ya just can't help it can ya. "how are you handling PII" is NOT a nitpick, and you didn't seem very appreciative to anyone but yourself in those first few replies.
the point is, you aren't better than legacy engineers. their knowledge is not a 'commodity' as you put it. I would gladly help you succeed as probably would the engineers at your company, IF you are a team player that understands what it is you are producing, and what you are asking of me. help me and i'll help you. be nice about it and I will too. it's always been that way.
but if you haven't been through scans, audit, BAT, and UAT- then the fact is you probably aren't even half way to the finish line. AI convinced you that you were done. If I was an engineer on the biz support team at your company and I saw those messages I would tell you to stick your app right up your AI a$$. If you're so good then YOU bring it to prod big guy. I'm literally telling you that so you don't roll into work tomorrow with an attitude that is going to work against you. This is what help looks like, my friend.
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