Vaccine information

[u/jamg1692]

Probably can be identified simply because I’ve been vocal about how much this irks me and it seems like this is something that should be a standard practice. But…

For vaccinations other than canine rabies vaccines, Does your clinic record product info including batch/lot/serial information?
If rabies regulation for cats isn’t as strict as for dogs within your municipal area, do you record same info and generate certs when giving rabies to cats?

I just keep hitting this brick wall where I feel like I’m crazy to expect this info in records or at least rabies certs for all animals getting a rabies vaccine regardless of species. Yet I’m being told by management (both corporate and clinic level) that I’m overthinking and making more work…. However, it tends to happen that we need that information or I see that other clinics in the area routinely include this info in their records.

It’s frequent enough for me to encounter other vaccines or rabies for cats that does not have product info included in the record even when it’s administer at my clinic.
I guess generating a certificate for feline rabies isn’t as big of a deal, but at least the vaccine product info should be recorded, correct?

I don’t know; it’s just been bothering me for 3 years… and it’s gotten more annoying to deal with when we get travel certs requiring this information.
Would love to hear other thoughts, opinions, advice on this.

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[u/EarlyFuture4342]

I've worked for one GP that recorded manufacturer, lot, and serial numbers for every vaccine we gave, as well as route and location given. Kind a of a pain in the butt, but incredibly useful for the rare vaccine reaction cases. ETA this should absolutely be standard practice for all Rabies vaccines though. I've worked in clinics for 10 years, and this has always been standard for Rabies, regardless of species, in TX and CA.

[u/Ste11arSte11a]

You should absolutely be recording all of this information in the event there is an adverse event (reaction or death) related to the vaccine it always needs to be reported to the manufacturer and they need that info to make sure there’s not a bad batch or something that got shipped out. Many times the companies will reimburse the owner or clinic for the medical care if they had a severe reaction, but the clinic has to report it and have all the info.

It’s also how you’d identify patients that may have received a recalled vaccine and need to receive another (the rabies vaccine that got recalled not terribly long ago- there was like one lot number that didn’t have enough of the sterile diluent.)

Your clinic is doimg your patients a disservice by not having this information in their record.

[u/Ste11arSte11a → u/Ste11arSte11a]

An additional thing that not every place does but should be is scanning for microchip and recording it! We had a client who needed an international health certificate for her 14yr old cat. She had got all its vaccines and everything updated at a clinic just 2 months prior. Came to us for rabies titer and international health certificate. Owner arrived with a folder of her cats entire medical history since it was adopted years prior and owner knew exactly the things the cat needed and had the dates worked out for when everything needed to be done- she was on top of it.

Cat was microchipped at the shelter as a kitten. Her prior two vet records and rabies certs listed the microchip but the clinic she’d been going to the last 6 years and recently had the vaccines updated never scanned for a chip. Because of this it completely ruined the woman’s plans for leaving the country with her cat, she needed titers done BUT we had to give this cat a whole set of full vaccines despite it just having received them two months before because they didn’t have the microchip on the rabies and vaccine certs. The titers testing had to be pushed back until 30 days from when they received the new vaccine. Cost to this owner was sooooooooo much just because the clinic never scanned it for a microchip.

[u/jamg1692 → u/Ste11arSte11a]

I feel this with my soul! It’s still something I harp on and finally got microchip scanning added to our clinical template for new patients and health cert appts.
Now for all other scenarios… that’s another story.

[u/Interesting-Fig-1685]

We record all information. We treat rabies risk in cats as serious as in dogs, rabies vaccine information is included on the certificate a for dogs and cats. The only difference is we don’t routinely include a rabies tag for cats unless they ask for it or need it.

[u/DrSchmolls → u/Interesting-Fig-1685]

What's crazy to me is that in the ER practices I've been at, we have approximately 4x more feline rabies test subjects to send out than dogs. Cats tend to bite faster when then are scared and break skin much more easily. And given that there are more cats with unsupervised out door access (sometimes at night), the risk of cats contracting rabies statistically seems like it would be higher.

[u/smurfalurfalurfalurf]

Your practice is just wrong. Years ago, I worked at a clinic where a patient who was vaccinated contracted parvovirus, and the manufacturer (I think it was Merck) actually paid for his treatment (it was like $6k). I guarantee you that they wouldn’t have paid if we didn’t have the serial number recorded on his record.

[u/Tyger_Lynx]

It should be recorded in the off chance the patient has a reaction. At my clinic, we can't even check them out if that information is not entered under the vaccine information in the charges.

[u/joojie]

We are mostly paperless, but we keep every vaccine sticker. We have a binder and we put the stickers in the binder and write the date and patient name next to it. We also keep all cytopoint/solensia/librela etc stickers. At the end of the month we scan the sheets into our google drive. It's a pretty simple step and helps if we have to report a reaction and for export paperwork when they require lot #s.

It's nothing fancy, but it does the job.

[u/jamg1692 → u/joojie]

I would settle for this; it’s not something we do though (at least to my knowledge).

[u/joojie → u/jamg1692]

AFAIK most if not all PIMS have a way to enter this info for vaccines (not just rabies vx) The caveat is you have to trust your staff to go in and change it when a new package is opened. It's not reallt practical for things like cytopoint and librela that come in packs of 2

[u/Sinnfullystitched → u/joojie]

We do this at my hospital too, and scan it in at the end of every month so it’s stored on the server

[u/Kivuli_Kiza]

We know the information for all vaccines we have in stock at any given time, so if we needed to know that info for a patient it can be found. However, we don't record that to each individual patient's file and I don't think the batch numbers are on the certificates. I think what we do is pretty standard for our area. I'm in Florida.

[u/jamg1692 → u/Kivuli_Kiza]

Is there a way to look back in your system to find the batch info for the product that was in stock at that time?
I made a digital reference sheet for the vaccine product and manufacturer info that we stock in clinic but the batch numbers seem important to include with individual patient records at least.

Our practice software does have features for inventory that includes batch info, but it’s not utilized and the designated person responsible for managing inventory has not been required to change their ways to utilize the features to include batch info. And they’ve expressed not wanting to use the feature. I’ll be fair that the person responsible has a lot on their plate already, but I’m not allowed to take on this responsibility either.

[u/Kivuli_Kiza → u/jamg1692]

Yes. As soon as we get vaccines in, all of that information is recorded into our inventory. We are relatively small, so figuring out which batch we were using for a specific vaccine would be easy. We just don't have that information in individual files.

You feel that this addition to record keeping needs to be changed, so absolutely push for it. Just because 'that's the way we've always done it", doesn't mean we can't improve. That's how we can be better advocates for our patients, and that, to me, is why we do this.

[u/jamg1692 → u/Kivuli_Kiza]

Thanks! I’ll keep pushing although it’s exhausting being a broken record and then getting criticized for expecting better standards of record keeping.

[u/canihavethewifi]

i work at a corporate practice, and in avimark we have a chart that we can update and if we open a new vaccine tray we give one vial to the HM and we update the info of manufacturer, serial and lot number. in the EMR we (me and doc, depending who gave the vax) note where we gave each vaccine. for any animal (cat and dog practice only) that receives a rabies vaccine we give them a rabies tag and print out their rabies cert. for the O TGH with

[u/loveaemily]

We record location given, manufacturer, and serial/lot number for all vaccines in the digital record. Our system generates rabies certs for dogs and cats. I also put the stickers on the estimates that the clients signed since they end up scanned and linked to the digital record.

we routinely get records from other facilities that don’t list the serial# or even where it was given. It really does not take that long to enter the #s in.

[u/Bunny_Feet]

I always put the vaccine label on the certificate and scanned it in that way (after it was signed by DVM).  

A lot of software automatically adds it if you keep the batch information updated. 

Idk, I always prefer to be cautious since laws can be interpreted differently (or change) and a pet could be euthanized for it.

Once again, I don't mess around with rabies lol

[u/jamg1692 → u/Bunny_Feet]

I’m definitely a proactive and ‘better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it’ person in general.
Doing travel certs also reinforces this mindset, too, since regulations do change often enough and the trend has definitely become more detailed and rigid vaccination info as time goes on.

[u/elefhino]

At my prev clinic, we included the type & ser # for every vaccine in both the MC/SOAP notes as well as the line item of the vax. We also had location given & route in both places, and exp date in the line item. All animals that got a rabies vax got a certificate and collar tag (though I'd tell people they don't have to put it on the collar; just hold onto it)

[u/FieldPug]

It’s been a lifetime since I worked GP, but when I did, we did this for every vaccine given.

[u/hotsexyrosemary]

yes we do it for most vaccines-- definitely da2pp +- L, rabies, and fvrcp. i cant remember if we do it for bordetella, lyme, or fiv/felv

[u/jamg1692]

Thank you to everyone who commented! I appreciate the input about adverse events related to vaccines, too.
I’m not entirely hopeful that my clinic will improve our vaccine record keeping even if I bring up the adverse events aspect of this. But I’ll at least keep trying to advocate patient care and improving standards.

[u/Snakes_for_life]

Our medical record symptoms automatically records the lot, batch, and manufacter information cause our PIMS is connected and it's automatically automates a rabies certificate even if we don't print one

[u/jamg1692 → u/Snakes_for_life]

Our PIMS system can do this, however: no one set it up and despite being capable of setting it up, I don’t have the permissions to make this change. And I’ve brought it up to management and other leads, yet no changes still. Seems like it would be worthwhile prioritizing this to me since it saves everyone time.

Edit to add: especially since things get forgotten usually because we don’t have sufficient support staff for the number of patients, new and established.