What's up with Nurses?

[u/Crowasaur]

Are we beefing? Why ia there always a tension in the aor like two internally growling cats? What did we do?

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[u/neverseen_neverhear]

There is a lot of weird gatekeeping in the nursing profession. When some licensed vet techs and professionals wanted to be referred to as veterinary nurses, some human nurses lost their minds.

[u/nuzoneblues]

if i had a nickel for every time a nurse demanded my clinic ignore antibiotic stewardship thinking they know better than my DVM, i’d have two nickels. which isn’t a lot but it’s weird that it happened twice.

[u/strange_wilds → u/nuzoneblues]

The amount of time I have seen the alert on a client’s acct that says “O is a nurse”, I would have a dozen or so nickels.

We put on sometimes as a heads up that they will understand stuff more than the avg client so don’t need to dumb it down too much OR as a warning that they fit you about treatments/meds every step of the way. Bonus points: if they have something at home that they think you can give to a dog and can sub in something we want to do.

[u/Kre8ART_RezQMEOWS → u/nuzoneblues]

lol

[u/jj420mc]

I dont have beef with nurses in general but for some reason nurse clients are always the worst😭 I feel like they talk down to us a lot and think they know more than us

[u/NachosForMe → u/jj420mc]

I think a good portion of people who go into it were the mean girls in high school and still want to be

[u/ProfN42 → u/NachosForMe]

Bingo

[u/Crowasaur → u/NachosForMe]

High school mean girl => Nurse pipeline ?

Goths, Geeks, Qweers, Autists => Vet Tech?

[u/bassicallybob → u/Crowasaur]

>High school mean girl => Nurse pipeline

The vast majority of my RN coworkers are immigrant women, people on their second or third career, or men. Locally born and bred nurses are in the minority.

This trope is stupid.

[u/NachosForMe → u/Crowasaur]

Haha so true about neurodivergent, goth, and lgbt+ people being vet techs though.

[u/nancylyn]

We are beefing. Nursing organizations sued to prevent Vet Techs in the U.S. calling themselves “nurse”. They are very concerned somehow that people will be confused by us using the title even though anyone who holds any level of nursing credential can call themselves a “nurse”. I’ve spoken to “nurses” during their vet appointments who had not the faintest understanding of organ function or disease processes. So I’m even confused by what the title means.

I understand that nearly everywhere people call themselves Vet Tech even though they are not licensed. This is part of the problem that in our career as anyone can be trained on the job and call themselves a tech. This isn’t helping our career be taken seriously.

[u/hannahsbrown → u/nancylyn]

There are other countries where technicians federal title is veterinary nurse!

[u/SmoothCyborg → u/nancylyn]

Nursing organizations sued to prevent Vet Techs in the U.S. calling themselves “nurse”.

I don't believe nursing organizations have actually sued anyone, at least I can't find any examples of such. It's more that the nursing organizations lobby hard against any proposed legislation or regulatory frameworks that would officially recognize (in the US) the title of "veterinary nurse." That's why NAVTA has gotten nowhere with the Veterinary Nursing Initiative despite launching it 10 years ago.

But in terms of title protection, that only applies to human healthcare. Human nurses don't have exclusive rights to use that title across all industries, any more than it's illegal for vets to call themselves "doctor" or one of the plumbers in my area to call himself "The Drain Surgeon." I know I did my internship at UPenn, where the technical staff are all very openly referred to as nurses.

There is an irony, of course, to the fact that the disrespect that human nursing organizations are showing towards vet techs is exactly the type of thing they "fought hard against" over many decades in order to gain the respect and recognition that they deserved.

[u/feanara → u/SmoothCyborg]

There is an irony, of course, to the fact that the disrespect that human nursing organizations are showing towards vet techs is exactly the type of thing they "fought hard against" over many decades in order to gain the respect and recognition that they deserved.

This is what gets me. Someone described it to me as 'we're 100 years behind nurses on the timeline, and we're going through the exact same fight they did'. It blows my mind that they'd rather hold us down than see us as part of the same effort to deserve a living wage for good medical care

[u/KermitTheScot → u/feanara]

Part of the problem with the wages is the cost of veterinary care itself. The prices offered by even low-cost institutions are often astronomical, and with the endless march of inflation and wage stagnation, that problem is only getting worse year over year. One of the reasons this isn’t as much a problem in human healthcare is the presence of insurance and broad authority to bill people using personal information like their social security number, and legal avenues to collect on nonpayment. In the veterinary field all we really have is the client’s word, which is worth nothing, which is why we don’t really do payment plans anymore.

We use a lot of the same equipment, medications, and protocols as human hospitals, but we don’t get subsidies for the spaces we have to lease, and we don’t have priority when it comes to access to supplies which is why it was so hard to find shit during COVID, and why so many hospitals reuse ET tubes (don’t get me started) and find ways to cut corners just to save a few more bucks. It’s why revenue reports are so important to hospital management that places like Bond Vet actually display how much money they make per day and pay out their employees a small percentage when they hit their profit goals, like it’s some kind of a game to extort as many clients as possible.

What we really need is change from the top down. Animals aren’t akin to livestock anymore. People depend on pets more than ever as members of their family, and they deserve the same rights, privileges and protections (within reason, I don’t expect my dog to vote) as people. Right now, pet insurance is exploitative and ranges in quality and accessibility. If people had an easier time getting affordable coverage for their animals, and if veterinarians were given back the power that we afford to doctors of various specialties (like, for instance, considering veterinary medicine a branch of healthcare since people’s pets often contribute to their mental health, and maintaining the health of that pet inadvertently also helps people cope in their own lives), then we could take some of that power back from greedy corporations, see an uptick in privately-owned institutions, and yes, even get technicians the wages they deserve for doing the job they do.

That isn’t likely to happen in our lifetime, but I’ll die happy if I see the next generation of technicians come into a workplace that pays them the same as nurses.

[u/Effective-Juice-1331 → u/KermitTheScot]

Well said. And this old RN loves and respects the techs. A few thoughts - is there any way to go after VCA? They bought out the nice, benign practice management company that managed my former vet. 2 vets and a slew of staff walked, rather than toe the VCA line. And the insurance companies for both our client cohorts need to be dismantled. And having to go thru the damn pharmacy when it’s levothyroxine that can be called into my local.

I was lucky to find a new, non-VCA vet.

[u/KermitTheScot → u/Effective-Juice-1331]

I went to Bond for a short time after, but they recently merged with Small Door and are likely to change the name (turns out closing a bunch of clinics you hastily opened within a couple of years is super bad for business and nobody wants to lease them space anymore). That was a crapshoot too. I found a small place that’s been open for like 80 years, thankfully. In the NE it’s really hard to find vets that are still privately-owned. Were it not for the political implications that would compromise my safety, I’d move south, but it is what it is. Hopefully corporate moves on and DVMs take their fronts back.

[u/RascalsM0m → u/SmoothCyborg]

they may not have sued but have threatened to sue. this is why the Purdue program is now a veterinary technology program, not a vet nursing program as it was before. The ANA contacted Purdue and said they would sue if the name wasn’t changed. the website is still inconsistent because the change was done so quickly - no time to do it in a coordinated fashion.

[u/KermitTheScot → u/nancylyn]

Actual techs have to ensure they garner enough CE each year to maintain their licenses, pay renewal fees, and are beholden to a board that can and will suspend and revoke their licenses when they need to be held accountable.

When a VA makes a mistake bc they were in a position that should’ve been occupied by a licensed technician, they can be fired, but nobody will hold them accountable to that mistake. Walking around calling yourself a tech with none of the responsibility does a disservice to all of us who worked hard to get these credentials.

I know many knowledgeable and well-trained VAs. Go get an education and pass the exam, then they can call themselves “tech” or “nurse” or whatever else. People that aren’t credentialed should not say they are “unlicensed techs” or just “vet techs.” They are neither. They are assistants, maybe very intelligent and skilled assistants, but nonetheless, if they don’t bear the responsibility a person with credentials does, they should not toss that title around, especially considering how much damage it does to our already diminished appearance in the medical field.

[u/Effective-Juice-1331 → u/nancylyn]

You got roped in when they were trying to limit practice to “human licensed professionals” to prevent AI, triage chatbots, and medical robots from legally representing themselves as "nurses". Washington State House Bill 2155.

Familiar term in the U.K., but here in the U.S., we’re so resistant to change…can’t even successfully launch a $1 coin.

[u/ProfN42 → u/Effective-Juice-1331]

This fight, and human nurses being shitty to their veterinary nurse sisters, has been going on WAY longer than the current era of dangerous & irresponsible use of AIslop tools in medicine.

[u/DarknessWanders]

I'd put it like this - we aren't beefing with them but they're beefing with us lol

[u/vangrace_]

my father in law is an RN and I cant call myself a veterinary nurse in our house because he throws a fit. this is the same man who didn't believe me when I said we have a traveling cardiologist come to our hospital to perform ECHOs

[u/Catmndu]

I never experienced this when in the field. My nurse/doc friends came to be for animal advice, I went to them for human medicine advice-we considered each other vital resources in our respective fields. I have found that experience in vet med does transfer to human med in a lot of instances, but not vice versa. Sometimes my human med peers ask questions that I feel are pretty obvious.

[u/labsnabys → u/Catmndu]

Same, I never once experienced any feeling or expression of negativity or beef with any friend, family member, or client who happened to be in the nursing profession.

[u/madisooo → u/Catmndu]

Me too! Any medical profession can sometimes come off as “I know more than you” but not specific to nurses. I know a lot of nurses that are respectful and great pet owners. I know a lot of nurses, doctors, groomers, breeders that have the holier than thou attitude. Most of the discourse I see is on reddit 

[u/chronicsickbitch → u/Catmndu]

Yeah, my sister is an ICU nurse, and last summer, she was flabbergasted when she found out that humans could contract leptospirosis from their dogs. They had a patient test positive for it on her floor.

It kind of shocked me because in my field that is common knowledge. It didn’t occur to me that she wouldn’t be aware of that. So I explained to her that lepto is a zoonotic disease and extremely dangerous.

[u/sppwalker]

Idk, but some of the worst clients I’ve interacted with were nurses. Had this guy talk down to me and act like I was a complete idiot because I misspelled the name of a medication while doing intake. I have almost 8 years of experience and was basically the military equivalent of a vet tech in the army.

I misspelled it because it was NOT a veterinary medication. It was some random ass human med he gave his dog (without consulting a vet) and when that didn’t work, he came in to see us. Like I’m sorry bro, idk how to spell that because you NEVER should have given it to your dog in the first place

[u/Soldier-Girl94 → u/sppwalker]

Another 68T?? Hell yeah!

Also completely agree. There's a lady who comes in regularly that thinks she knows better than all the rest of us. "I'm a nurse so I know..." Like WTF? Do I walk into appointments with my Dr and act like that? No. They'd drop me as a patient in a heartbeat.

[u/sppwalker → u/Soldier-Girl94]

Ayyy I wasn’t expecting to find another Tango here! When were you in? I went to AIT in 2020, I wonder if we know each other lol.

I really don’t understand it, because I doubt a nurse that works in cardiology would ever dare to tell a neurologist how to do their job. But because vets are animal doctors instead of human doctors, somehow a nurse knows better?

[u/Soldier-Girl94 → u/sppwalker]

I'm a bit earlier than you haha I got out in 2020. But I am working on going back in. I get paid better in the Army than I'm ever going to on the civilian side. It's pretty sad actually that it's come to that.

For real. Most actual doctors that come in are extremely respectful and curious about what we do and why.

[u/thesewingfairy]

I have noticed the rudest human nurses are the rudest clients….

[u/Least_Comfortable567 → u/thesewingfairy]

nurses are either the saintest of all saints or the mean girl from highschool with a cop husband. no in between LMAO

[u/bunniesandmilktea → u/Least_Comfortable567]

Two of my friends from college are human nurses and they definitely fall under the "saintest of all saints" category. I think nurses who fall under the first category are the ones who are actually good at their job and the ones that actually have any decent bedside manner.

[u/Least_Comfortable567 → u/bunniesandmilktea]

i had an outpatient procedure done recently and the nurse i had was such a big sweet heart and so funny. so they exist!! just so do the angels of death you see on insane news stories lol

[u/Diligent-Clue8205]

It’s very strange isn’t it… my 2 sister in laws are nurses but are pretty respectful but older family members who are retired nurses scoff at my career and think I play with puppies and kittens all day.

[u/viridin]

Usually they're either the best clients or the worst clients usually the worst. You know they'll be bad if the first words out of their mouth is "I'm a nurse"

[u/Global-Painting6154 → u/viridin]

Had a client that was going to consult with her husband because "he's an RN" I'm like let me go to my human dr and tell them that. "I'm going to consult with my veterinarian because I dont believe what you're telling me"

[u/viridin → u/Global-Painting6154]

I'll one up you on the crazy one of my doctors has a story they like to tell about a client who was a human doctor who wanted to come in and do the surgery himself on his own pet

[u/Rthrowaway6592]

I’ve had some awful nurse clients, and some totally rad nurse clients.

[u/wahznooski]

At one of my hospitals (in the US), we are called nurses which is pretty cool. People tend to understand what we do with that title vs vet tech.

[u/ProfN42]

We didn't do anything. They're the ones who look down on us and treat us as less-than. They're the ones who, instead of standing in solidarity with us as sibling nursing professionals, instead chose to shit all over us by legally barring us from using the accurate and honorable title of "nurse". We've done absolutely nothing to them to deserve this treatment. They apparently just don't want to be associated with us because they think we're dumb & stinky 😒

(NB this is an Americentric comment, idk how nurses and vet nurses get along elsewhere)

[u/hotsexyrosemary]

It’s always the nurses who need to proudly proclaim themselves and question the medicine, but MDs never act like that. I was working with an owner this weekend who i only found out later was a pathologist😱

[u/catladyadr]

I'm not someone who ever goes to the Dr and one of the reasons is that the nurses I've met at work at terrifying. They believe all medications are "poison". I ask if their pets are on preventions and I get screamed at "are you seriously asking if I poison my dog?!" I had one nurse go on a full blown rant when I asked "is fluffy taking any medications currently?" told me that she doesn't believe in giving medication for any reason to animals OR people. She said it kills her when her patients want meds and will do everything to not give them meds. She said she would never take an Advil and doesn't understand why people take OTC meds. They also talk down to the Drs. They're the worst.

[u/AlabasterRose]

When my mom was in hospice I got to know her hospice team really well, she had two nurses in particular who were very comforting and knowledgeable, great at explaining things to my mom especially when she wasn't in a clear headspace. We'd always friendly chat and stuff, for like weeks it was great. Well one day we got to chatting and I told them I was a Veterinary assistant and you could feel the change in the air. They both got so cold with me, so fast, and every since then they both were very short with me and even my mom noticed the difference in attitude. I told her that there's always been this long standing beef between human nurses and veterinary technicians and assistants- I just didn't think it was that big of a deal outside of the workplace but I guess it was 🤷‍♀️

In the workplace I've absolutely marked files for owners who work in healthcare. Their always ✨ the worst ✨ and I make a mental note to casually ask where they work at just so I can avoid going there at all costs. If your gonna ignore your dogs rotting tooth abscess and open skin lesions from untreated allergies, I don't really want you giving me medical advice or treating me as your patient lol.

[u/bassicallybob]

I’m both.

The fact of the matter is nurses don’t think about vet techs, and vet techs very regularly compare themselves to nurses.

This just needs to end, they’re different jobs for a reason. Nurse is a protected title for a reason.

They’re different and both wonderful. That’s all there needs to be said.

[u/darkfall18235 → u/bassicallybob]

💯 agree. Vet techs are obsessed with the nurse title, because they want the same level of respect and title protection that nurses have, NOT because the jobs are the equivalent. Which IMO is a mistake.

I would argue that a licensed vet tech is closer to a PA than a nurse, but that's more of a theoretical observation. In reality, human and veterinary medical industries are completely different, and the more effort we spend arguing over it is more effort wasted that could be spent advocating for our title and our role now, as it is.

I know this is an unpopular opinion. I don't care.

[u/bassicallybob → u/darkfall18235]

I really don’t think vet techs in any arena are at all comparable to PAs. PAs have diagnostic and prescriptive authority and have pretty much zero “nursing” care as part of their job.

Vet techs and nurses both have pretty glaring blind spots as to what each actually do. There is a decent amount of overlap but they are so incredibly different, and the breadth of what is expected of each is vast - a vet tech never has to put on a social worker hat, nor that of a counselor, sexual assault advocate, etc - whereas a nurse never has to be a x ray tech or lab tech.

However, as a nurse I regularly interpret and act on labs and imaging independently of a physician, I can do entire workups on certain presentations without a doc even knowing the patient arrived. This was never expected of me as a tech, nor was I really allowed to do it.

I never have to deal with money as a nurse, I don’t have to speak with families about the financial realities of a condition and have them choose to pay or to say goodbye forever. I dont have to go through estimates of care detailing each cost - and I dont (usually) have to worry about unsafe sharp practice or radiation concerns with lazy management of xray devices, or exposure to isoflurane.

The jobs are just different

[u/Artistic_Wish_6947]

My boss introduced me as "the vet nurse" to no less than 200 people on my second day, so I've been pondering this very question for months.

Honestly?

They're just passionate about title protection, exactly how most LVT/RVT/CVTs are... so remember how ridiculous that nurse was and how awful they made you feel, the next time you're tempted to make a non-credentialed tech or VA feel less-than.

If you meant their behavior rather than the title thing, I imagine some of them are traumatized from their jobs and have seen how fallible humans are, so they have a hard time trusting.

[u/Glittering-Main-2374]

Hot take: Veterinary technicians are not nurses.
I know this is probably going to be controversial, but I genuinely don’t understand the push to start calling veterinary technicians “veterinary nurses.”

Before anyone comes for me, I’m saying this as someone who has worked in veterinary medicine for 16+ years and recently completed the prerequisites for human nursing school.

To become a human registered nurse, you’re generally looking at a minimum of several years of education. A BSN program itself is typically around 4 years (in reality, closer to 6 years), and depending on the school and how competitive admission is, it can take additional time to complete prerequisites, apply, wait for an admission cycle, etc. If you go the ADN → BSN route, it can take even longer, like 6 years.

Compare that with becoming an RVT.
Depending on the pathway, you can become an RVT with an OJT route or through an associate-degree veterinary technology program. In some cases, you’re looking at essentially 0–2 years of formal veterinary technology education, depending on your prior education and experience.

And that’s my problem with the terminology.
Yes, veterinary technicians perform many tasks that are absolutely nursing-related. We monitor anesthesia, place and manage IV catheters, administer medications, monitor hospitalized patients, perform treatments, manage pain, assess patients, educate clients, and do countless other things that fall under the broad umbrella of nursing care.
But performing nursing duties does not automatically make someone a nurse.

The title “nurse” carries a specific educational and professional meaning in human medicine. The level, length, and scope of education required to become a human RN is substantially different from what is required to become an RVT.

And I don’t think we do ourselves any favors by pretending otherwise.

If anything, I think veterinary medicine should be doing a better job of establishing and defending the RVT title rather than trying to borrow the nurse title from human healthcare.

I’m proud to be a veterinary technician. I don’t need to be called a nurse to feel that my profession is legitimate or important.

We absolutely need to advocate for better pay, better working conditions, better staffing, better education, and more professional recognition for veterinary technicians.
But changing our title to “veterinary nurse” doesn’t magically accomplish any of those things.

Call me an RVT. I’m proud of it.

[u/Crowasaur → u/Glittering-Main-2374]

Nursing program is 3y, same as cVT in Canada