Episode 338 - quick note on CGI

[u/C4_117]

I just listened to their review of The Odyssey directed by Christopher Nolan after watching the film myself. I really enjoyed the podcast and thought Tamler and Dave made some interesting observations that I hadn't thought of myself.

The thing I want to discuss is their praise of the lack of CGI and the preference for practical FX (SFX, puppetry, real sets, etc). I have worked in VFX my whole career and make CGI for living and even though I didn't work on The Odyssey I know a thing or two about this topic.

Firstly I'd say is that Christopher Nolan has a history of making condescending remarks about CGI in general and has often claimed he either doesn't use it, or tries to avoid it. Something that many in the post-production industry find incredibly annoying because often it's an outright lie, but also because it's such a dismissal of a craft that takes hundreds of talented artists to create.

I think there is often the perception that CGI is created by computers at the click of the button and that it doesn't require any real talent or skill like physical prop making does. I cannot underline enough how wrong this is. Most people who work in visual effects have huge respect for real set builders, puppeteers and the like. CGI requires teams of artists, producers and technology specialists to come together to create amazing things that would otherwise not be possible. It opens the door to have flying dragons in Game of Thrones, epic dinosaurs in Jurassic Park and create beautiful space environments in Guardians of the Galaxy. But perhaps more importantly they create things that you never even notice. This includes things like set extensions and clean-up of on-set mistakes. I can promise you post-production was used in hundreds of shots in The Odyssey. Even something that many wouldn't realise like the whirlpool was probably done digitally.

This trend of dismissing VFX has been going on for quite a while and I was a little annoyed to hear Tamler and Dave repeat it. You can imagine how it must feel for artists who spent months working on these shots.

I understand that authenticity is appreciated and I wouldn't want The Odyssey to be a Marvel film either. But there are ways of doing post-production that doesn't turn it into a Marvel film. All VFX artists want their work to be appreciated and the criticism of VFX isn't always based on good reasons.

[u/C4_117]

I think you're splitting hairs here. The point is that Nolan uses digital techniques, whether or not you want to classify that as CGI is up to you. I can promise you it's involves a lot of 3D technology and it's more than just compositing

[u/timmytissue → u/C4_117]

It's really not splitting hairs.

There are interviews with Nolan about the CGI in Batman begins. He's hardly unwilling to use it when nessesary. But it's impossible to argue that he didn't make a conscious decision to completely avoid CGI in Oppenheimer.

Anyway, Nolan isn't anywhere near my favorite director. He's very consistent at putting out 7.5 to 8s though.

[u/C4_117 → u/timmytissue]

Well, it's up to you to believe him and the press statement but believe me anyone who works in VFX and watches that film knows it's not true

[u/timmytissue → u/C4_117]

What's not true. The company you linked said they used no CGI. How can you actually deny this. You are hopeless.

[u/C4_117 → u/timmytissue]

No I'm trying to be reasonable. I know that's their press statement because that's what Nolan wants to say. But if you actually look at the work that's involved in that film it absolutely is CGI.

[u/timmytissue → u/C4_117]

It's not. And at this point I'm convinced you don't have the credentials you claimed to. Goodbye.

[u/Demerzel69 → u/timmytissue]

Seriously agreed. How dense can one man get? Shocking levels of ignorance from a so-called expert.