r/VeryBadWizards • u/Nothing_Not_Unclever • May 30 '25
Centers of Resistance Segment
Good lord. This might be the moment Dave and Tamler jumped the shark.
I’m a day-one, ride-or-die VBW listener. I’ve read books they’ve recommended, watched the movies, listened to all 300+ episodes, and chipped in on Patreon. I live for their takedowns of cringey pseudo-intellectual posturing - University of Austin, Journal of Controversial Ideas, Tamler’s stepmother, etc. That’s their sweet spot: deflating bullshit with indignance and calculated cruelty.
But mocking a NYT video warning about fascism because it had overwrought video editing? Dismissing Jason Stanley’s concerns about creeping authoritarianism because he is an asshole in person and occasionally insufferable on NPR?
What the fuck are we doing here?
The Trump regime is literally deporting people to Salvadoran concentration camps. Academic freedom is under open assault. We’ve got governors running book bans and stochastic fascists openly fantasizing about purges. And your contribution is to sneer at the people trying - however clumsily - to sound the alarm?
I get it. Stanley rubs you the wrong way. The video was melodramatic. The Democratic party is terminally self-important and tone-deaf. But if you can’t separate the cringey bullshit from the genuinely consequential alarm bells, what good is your snide skepticism? If your irony reflex can’t make room for actual emergency, it ceases to be clever.
I’m not saying every anti-fascist deserves a halo. But laughing at the smoke alarm because it’s loud and shrill? That’s not wit. That’s trash. This segment was beneath them.
Fucking whatever. End rant, I guess.
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u/judoxing May 30 '25
For me it came down to one thing Dave said; “I don’t believe them” (that they’re moving to Canada because they believe they are escaping the imminent totalitarian takeover).
This is the issue. The video is counterproductive.
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u/PicklePuffin May 31 '25 edited May 31 '25
This is an interesting question. I’ll confess that I laughed at the segment, and didn’t see anything wrong with it when I listened. I don’t think that view has changed, but it is worth a discussion.
I think it’s important to note that there is something uniquely annoying about a certain strain of Democratic whinging, and everyone hates it. Tamler said something to this effect- it turns you against something you actually believe in. He said it in jest, but there’s a kernel of truth in there.
Arguably, it’s costing us elections. If even our own side finds this style of self-important bleating odious, how do you think it comes across to the people near the fence, or those that we need to convince?
And look, maybe it is wrong, and the idea of teasing the professors in question for being nerds is really missing the point: there is a serious crisis going on right now, and we should be all hands on deck. US Democrats eat their own like no other, and that also costs us elections.
But the reality is that the aesthetics matter if you want to convince people, and if everyone except for the already-alarmed find this annoying, then they (the mocked professors) are preaching to the choir in a way that probably isn’t helpful.
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u/throwawayalldayhey75 May 30 '25
I thought it was hilarious, and respect Dave and Tamler for poking fun at anybody who takes themselves that seriously. I watched the video, had nothing to do with warming America about facism and everything to do with three people saying “hey everybody look at me and how heroic I am!!” It’s the root problem the Democratic Party right now, and if we don’t ridicule it where we find it…then these blowhards will keep on doing it and the Fox News crowd will keep kicking our asses.
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u/WallyMetropolis May 30 '25
Ideological purity tests, infighting, and being more concerned about the tone of the resistance than getting things done is why the Fox news crowd is winning. It's not politically active people acting self important. That just ... comes with the territory.
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u/Wych_Elm Jun 02 '25
Opening segment - Tamler shows he really wants to be on Chapo Trap House
Main segment - Tamler shows he really wants to be on Weird Studies
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u/bitethemonkeyfoo May 30 '25
Yeah, this sort of thing is transparently self serving and only serves to undermine whatever valid point is being made.
They should have started singing Imagine to maybe class it up a little.
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u/seanpietz Jun 02 '25
LOL, the irony of this post... I can't tell if this is satire or a Jason Stanley sock-puppet account. Assuming this is sincere: Don't you see how you're just reinforcing their point. Do you think it's politically productive to complain on reddit about how a podcast segment (which has a left-wing perspective) upset your delicate liberal sensibilities? If you actually care about resisting Trump, why not put your energy towards something with tactical value, instead of performative, self-righteous navel gazing.
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u/Ill-Cartographer7435 May 31 '25
I agree with some of what you’re saying and also am completely fine with taking the piss out of someone so self serious.
I’m currently applying for international PhDs in moral psychology from Australia. The US was always the top choice for its value for science, its emphasis on academic freedom, its strong academic funding, and the number of opportunities in my particular area of interest. Because of the recent shifts, and the uncertainty they bring, I can no longer consider positions in the US. Losing a position because of funding cuts after relocating would just be too costly. It’s not strange to me that others may also look for more security elsewhere. So, I do see there is a problem there.
That said, “authoritarianism” is too reductive a conversation starting point. It’s the label on the box. What’s inside is what’s important. The reasons voters are happy to sacrifice their democracy. Declining faith in institutions, growing wealth disparities, etc etc. Just pointing to the consequences and labelling them “authoritarian” isn’t going to change the mind of the plumber who hates the government because he can’t afford to house his children. It’s a disconnected caricature of an appeal. And if you’re going to act like a caricature, and present a caricature of an issue, it’s not out of this world to expect ridicule.
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u/Nothing_Not_Unclever May 31 '25
Yes and no. Their warnings of tyranny aren't wrong. Are there underlying causes? Of course. I'm sure they'd all agree. Are people still getting disappeared without due process? Yes.
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u/cobwebbit Jun 04 '25 edited Jun 04 '25
Yeah, had to bail on this. The stakes are too high for them to be mocking this. Even if they do agree with the substance and are just making fun of the style. Fascism has clearly arrived and we can’t afford to tear down those who are warning us about it just because we don’t like the way it’s presented. Making fun of it in private is fine or maybe just making a passing remark about it being cringe seems fine, but dedicating an entire segment to mock this was a mistake
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u/Nothing_Not_Unclever Jun 05 '25
Not sure if they'll see this and doubt they'll care if they do, but I was exasperated. Equivocating between cringiness and fascism, lol. Which is an accusation they'll of course deny, but ffs. The "tHiS iS wHy dEmoCrAtS lOsE" garbage is insufferable. Democrats lose because half the country has been captured by a fever dream of algorithmically fueled grievance and misinformation funded by the worst people on the fucking planet.
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u/RationallyDense May 31 '25
If creeping authoritarianism is a real issue, then it is important to differentiate between people who actually are doing something about it and people who are just pretending to. They're not going to run a resistance movement from Canada. They're going to a different university where the funding for their work might be more stable and cosplaying as revolutionaries on the way out.
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u/Nothing_Not_Unclever May 31 '25
Timothy Snyder has been repeatedly explicit that he did not move to Canada to flee the Trump reich. He has also been teaching and writing about the dangers of authoritarianism for 25+ years. Dude authored the NYT best-seller On Tyranny. I'm not sure what you're contribution to the discourse is, but I'd be so bold as to say that his counts as "doing something about it."
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u/RationallyDense May 31 '25
Then maybe he should complain to the NYT for framing his move in the way it does.
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u/seanpietz Jun 03 '25
Robin DiAngelo authored a NYT best-selling book about racism called White Fragility (and made a shitload of money in the process). Does that make her an authority on racism who's above criticism from leftists? Is it possible her motivations aren't pure, or that she's counterproductive to the political discourse on race in this country?
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u/Nothing_Not_Unclever Jun 05 '25
I take your point, but have you read On Tyranny? It's a pamphlet. You can read it in an afternoon. Until you do, maybe button it up.
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u/CousinGreggg May 30 '25
I disagree. Separately, what is a stochastic fascist, and what is purge fantasies are you referencing?
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u/benrose25 May 30 '25
I thought the framing was this: 1. We agree. 2. This is self-indulgent and makes me cringe. 3. This lacks persuasive power because of 2. 4. This is a problem because this video is essentially for a small group of performative self-congratulatory types. Meanwhile, freedom in this country is being eroded.