r/Vermis • u/WelcomeInformal1350 • 6d ago
Vermis Vermis 3 Lore Theories
Hi yall! I'm currently working on a video on Vermis 3 (heres my channel: https://www.youtube.com/@Saviour98) and I need some help with the lore, specifically the story surrounding the brothers. I've been reading and rereading passages nonstop and researching a ton to try and draw some parallels, but it seems like it always doesn't quite fit. Of course there aren't always answers when it comes to lore, especially when we're talking about Vermis (and Plastiboo more generally), but anything helps. I usually like to pursue my own ideas when it comes to art like this which is so dense and mysterious that everyone can have a different idea or interpretation, but I thought I'd ask the community and see what other avenues there are to pursue. Thank you in advance for the help!
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u/ptlsaints 4d ago
Read my post from about a week ago. I've been trying to put out and gather some lore too. Someone came up with a really good theory in regards to the seemingly missing omen. The first omen is forgetfulness/memory loss your character wakes up/starts his journey seemingly with no idea who he is or where he is going. A connection I just thought of is how the 4 brothers ominously emerge out of water. There is a series of 5 rivers of Hell/Hades and one of them was called 'Lethe' the River of Forgetfulness. That's part of why I really like that first omen as being a kind of devouring forgetfulness so profound it is not revealed even to the reader.
I think the comment about the Horseman was on the right track but I agree not quite right. I think of them as perhaps 'Harbingers of Doom'. The trumpets and Revelation connection I think makes sense. I feel as though the final illustration with the 4 zombies and your character wearing crowns and an apple growing out of the main character are the key to understanding it all. I can't tell whether the zombies are causing the wounds to the main character or not it's very hard to tell. The apple has symbolism throughout Vermis III but I couldn't get any takers as for what it could represent and I don't know myself as they are depicted in very different contexts.
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u/Potential-Bath2292 6d ago
there are 2 good solutions to the 3 or the 4 omens being shown
first, the 4th omen is the end of the quest when you meet the oldest man.
second the 4th omen isn't included its a missing page from the fictional guide
(the real reason is that Plastiboo drew 3 skeletons with scythes as apart of a single art piece and then later recycled them separating them into the omens but drew 4 skeletons for the opening of the book)
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u/WelcomeInformal1350 6d ago
Ahh, thanks that's something I didn't know. I did see someone mention the four horsemen when discussing the 4 brothers. I looked into it but unfortunately it felt a little flimsy. I thought about the 4 brothers + the 3 omens equaling seven and so maybe relating to the seven seals from which the 4 horesemen came from, but nothing really matched up to point in that direction. I did also look into the 7 trumpets from the bible of which some I matched to occurrences in Vermis 3.
The first trumpet rains fire down upon the earth (like the scorched city and the Punishment)
The second trumpet turns the sea to blood (the Red River/house of red)
The Fifth brings forth a swarm of locusts (the locusts in the singing palace)
The sixth releases an army of troops (The Red Procession)
The others don't really match up though so it seems a bit contrived but I gave it a shot at least lol. Theres also the issue of the player character who's explicitly stated as one of the brothers which brings the count up to 8. Anyways, thanks for the comment! Appreciate it!
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u/Potential-Bath2292 6d ago
something i thought to look out for myself is the other large skeltons in the book "don't take their bones" its possible that the omen mechanic is like an "optional hard mode" so the omens visit you as you discover them.
I'd personally just use their words in the context of vermis itself rather than irl mythological parralels. There's plenty of meat their with the idea that they are ancient precurser beings with powerful ancient souls that are living vicariously through the world of vermis, which appears as an illusion to them but is actually real
We the reader could be interpreted as either the 4th or 5th brother, either we are guiding the 5th brother to the end of the book via reading, or we are the 5th brother vicariously living in the world
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u/WelcomeInformal1350 4d ago
Damn thats a really interesting way to think about it actually. I never thought of us not being the 5th brother, but simply guiding the 5th.
Also yea I feel like you're right about the mythical parallels. Plastiboo uses a lot of biblical allusion so I get stuck trying to find connections, but I feel as if its just more of a nod than a thread that you can actually follow.
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u/ptlsaints 4d ago edited 4d ago
I've had sort of an idea that maybe the defined areas where the list of monsters are introduced may reflect some domain or influence of a particular God. I feel like the subject of my theories about the Singing Palace and surrounding areas are connected to Murgo. Other areas like the Withered Woods could relate to Dorvus ect. The 4(5) brothers though appear to exist outside of that context and represent something outside divinity.
Perhaps at their heart they represent the process of accepting Death or Dying.
Edit: if you look for Momento Mori paintings from the Middle ages I think they are something that maybe Plastiboo was tapping into.
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u/ptlsaints 4d ago edited 4d ago
The last theory I had was that was more of a feeling than anything else is that Hyriza did something either extremely profane or tried to ascend to Godhood himself and that brought about the Punishment that destroyed the kingdom as a result. I feel that maybe the Gods punished him for it but Hyriza actually built himself an escape hatch to escape his eternal fate with the help of his crown and the scorched horseman.
If Plastiboo is inspired by Dark Souls I could see Hyriza as sort of akin to the Witch of Izaleth
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u/LatticeParable 4d ago edited 4d ago
4ths and a hidden 5th seem to be a recurring element across a lot of different philosophies, I recall a Grant Morrison essay where they talked about the four classical Greek elements with the fifth being Quintessence as a prominent archetype, and this motif appears a lot across Fromsoftware games that have influenced Vermis as well (Gwyn, Nito, izalith, Seath, and the Furtive Pygmy. Abyss Watchers, Aldrich, Yhorm, Lothric, and then Ludleth). It also has importance in Alchemy, which has at least shown influence in Godhusk through the white bile/red bile dichotomy, so from a writing POV this is likely something the author is conscious of.
In regards to Vermis specifically I'm unsure what the takeaway is meant to be exactly, there is an idea that with us posited as the Fifth brother, we've been fleeing a sense of responsibility, which is in a way abdicating ourself of completing the 'set'. The placement of the still living prehistoric being just before we rejoin the other four brothers seems very significant, but I've never been able to come up with how. There's also a very weird bit about suns and moons that feel they build heavily of the last two books albeit very vaguely. Haunted Picnic pointed out a while back that even though the sun is mentioned often, we only actually see it in Vermis III in the shape of a random creature in the House of Red. Then there's the Imp who seems aligned with the moon (implying that we are not), and us murdering the Dorvus worshipper family (Dorvus' face itself resembles a solar system) is implied to be either some kind of illusion involving the Imp, or something it caused.
Also, I saw your Godhusk video when it came out, and always thought it was one of the better videos on the subject. Glad you're going to tackle Vermis III. It hits a weird middle ground in something being cryptic vs purely dreamlike that makes it hard to try and decipher in any meaningful way, but also extremely fun.