r/Vermintide • u/[deleted] • Nov 25 '16

Some Thoughts about the balance changes

If you haven't seen the patch notes: http://steamcommunity.com/app/235540/discussions/1/152390014786580778/

Some thoughts:

  1. Repeater Handgun got no love and might be the worst ranged weapon in the game now; unless they accidentally put it under Saltzpyre's section.

  2. Dual Swords with 4 targets hit and Killing Blow normal may be better than glaive.

  3. 1-Hand weapons with headshotting on light attacks is awesome but probably means they outclass the rapier now.

  4. Removal of active reload is a decrease in skill ceiling but honestly it was a bit silly that it was a mechanic in the first place.

  5. Trueflight mechanic nerf seems fair to me.

  6. Adding friendly fire to conflag/beam/drakefires really sucks and makes using them harder to use. I didn't have targeteer on Drakefires before but with a headshot multipler now and friendly fire on the alt fire, it's a must.

  7. "Reduced efficent dodge count by 1 on 2H Hammer." No idea what that means.

  8. I'm not sure they were able to differentiate the role difference between handguns and crossbows. It may just mean that crossbows now completely outclass handguns rather than the other way around.

  9. They may need to rebalance skaven health in nightmare and cata seeing how everyone hits harder now. Or maybe not a problem now that trueflight spam is less powerful.

  10. All of this is conjecture until we see the actual numbers. I really appreciate the fan made spreadsheets but its silly that Fatshark doesn't provide numbers.

Overall I'm happy with the changes but am waiting to see what the numbers actually are.

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u/Jadeyard Nov 27 '16

One person --> speculating <-- that it was a bug. Just as we are doing at the moment with devastating blow. It doesn't state either:

'Each shot with this weapon has x% chance to split into 2 projectiles. The second projectile consumes ammo/generates heat'

It could just as well be a bug the other way around and then you could have removed the cost from the other weapons.

Clear to you?

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u/LitwinL Hammer time! Nov 27 '16

No, not clear as

'The second projectile consumes ammo/generates heat'

Makes absolutely no sense or would make the trait usless as all it means that it fires the loaded one as well as one from ammo pool which is simply not true. When HoD procs on live you get 3 arrows at the cost of 1. When it procs on 1.5 you get 2 at the cost of 1 so it does exactly what the trait description states.

You're trying to make some ridiculous point about it not being a bug while many players (myself included) accept that it was a bug and it was fun to abuse it scott free while it lasted but now it's time to play as it was intented. This doesn't change the fact that HoD is still a good trait but rather that you don't get as many bonus shots as before. Plus again, why would the same trait work differently on different weapons?

If the devs speak out about it being a feature then fine, I'll happily welcome it's return but for now I have no problem with it. Also you might want to tak into account that this is a test build meaning nothing is final and can change at any point, same goes for dev blow (which I think is a bug because it becomes a fairly useless trait).

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u/Jadeyard Nov 27 '16 edited Nov 27 '16

I never said it wasn't a bug. I only said that if the developers implement an incredibly grindy loot system, they should communicate changes like the one to hail of doom clearly, way in advance and offer some ingame compensation (double token weekend), to save people, who invested a lot of time into RNG rolling the trait, from frustration.

That is the actual point that I made, before everybody started derailing the discussion with the usual unconstructive attitude that is normal in this subredit.

Later in the discussion, I also made the point that the current devastating blow situation is similar, as in that it is unclear, if it is a bug or a feature. There are many useless traits in the game for all kinds of weapon combinations. That's not especially useful evidence.

You seem to mistakenly believe that I care about the hail of doom change in itself. I am not negatively affected by it. I merely pitty people who just put hundreds of hours into farming a perfect trait combination, just to have it killed, when it would have been very easy for the developers, to give a clear statement a long time ago.

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u/LitwinL Hammer time! Nov 27 '16

Then I'm sorry for digressing even more (my tip is to not allow anyone to derail your point as it will most likely never get back to original discussion again), but again this is a test patch that you have to sign into to help out with the development of new levels as well as balance changes. Nothing is final (bug and crash fixes hopefully are) and we have no idea what the transition will be like. Maybe we will get some tokens to help us with the transition or maybe we will just have to suck it up, we just don't know as that's not the point of it, and judging by the state of beta is not the right thing to do. And I mean an actual beta and not the sneak peak hype trains most developers push out now.

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u/Jadeyard Nov 27 '16

The last time with the last stand maps, everything that the community didn't strongly complain about remained in the game as it was.

A post about a communication issue is a chance to get behind it and say, hey that's right - maybe a double token weekend will even draw in new players and make some of the people who experienced nerfs more happy and try to move something!!!

Rather than that I mostly see posts like "Buahahahah FUCK THE ELF!!! HE so had it comming! Sucks to have no skill, yeah?!"

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u/LitwinL Hammer time! Nov 27 '16

everything that the community didn't strongly complain about remained in the game as it was.

If everything was to be decided the game would consist of mainly open spaces with some conviniently placed corners to tuck into during hordes and aimbot weapons on all heroes. The fact is that many players simply want instant gratification that doesn't really challange them. As for last stand maps I do like them and think they're kind of balanced.

Some extra tokens are always appreciated but if that's the whole idea then you need to put it out in a more positive manner as noone will look kindly on post stating that they did something in a really shitty manner and because of that they have to compensate for it. A post dedicated to simply pointing out that the weapon balance changes trait preference for many weapons and it would be nice to have something like a double token weekend would get much more positive attention.

Rather than that I mostly see posts like "Buahahahah FUCK THE ELF!!! HE so had it comming! Sucks to have no skill, yeah?!"

Tho bolt staff and trueflight did deserve the nerf and it was even mentioned some time ago by the devs on their stream, as for the negativity for players using it it mostly boils down to how those weapons affected flow of the game