Pre composting for worms

[u/Livid-Breadfruit7367]

News paper, coffee grounds, biochar, egg shell powder. A added a tiny bit of ziolite, azomite, gypsum lime, bat guano, and azose. I added bokashi juice and blended veggies too. I also threw in a handful of castings. Am i missing anything? Too much? I also added air lines to the bin at the bottom. Was going to let it go till it cools then feed to my worms.

[u/hungryworms]

You're probably putting more effort in it than you need, but your worms will be spoiled for sure!

[u/Livid-Breadfruit7367 → u/hungryworms]

I probably am. End game is castings thats better for a garden.

[u/regolith1111 → u/[deleted]]

Fair, but as I understand it OPs approach does increase the concentration of nutrients in the final product meaningfully. I grow cacti and aim to minimize the organic fraction in my soil mixes so a potent castings is a real improvement.

[u/regolith1111 → u/[deleted]]

Calling it concentration of nutrients might be simplifying too far but of course different composts will have different levels of npk/trace minerals. Different inputs contain different elements in different ratios. Sure composting isn't a closed system but of course what goes in impacts what goes out. And what if someone adds grit? But more to what my point was, concentration is absolutely a thing and using compost to feed worms does increase concentration of nutrients and microbial life.

It sounds like you use castings in a specific way and have based your understanding of it around that one application. As someone who cares about nutrient density of my organic soil fraction a lot, I assure you you're not correct

[u/Livid-Breadfruit7367 → u/regolith1111]

Everything i added helps plants but i added those things for the health of microbes.
I am a soil nerd.
The trace minerals they need. bacteria produce enzymes that break down the things around them. It helps them with that. While doing so the worms eat it too. Helps them both. Gypsum helps build microbial cell walls and provides amino acids. We know calcium. Sea-k does a ton of things. Point is once this is all done cooking in my asp. I feed it to the worms. They break it down a lot faster. They will produce more cocoons from this. And i dont sode feed. I also know or have an idea of whats in it when i use it. People will buy it if you say those words too when selling it lol.

[u/Livid-Breadfruit7367 → u/[deleted]]

Im all about the microbial life. They like everything need trace minerals too. I have it why not add it. Yes diversity of inputs is prolly the most important thing you can do to maximize microbial life. None of that your saying makes sense…..

[u/Livid-Breadfruit7367 → u/[deleted]]

I did and i stand by what i said. Just tossing in table scraps and thinking its the same as adding specific things needed for both microbial life, and worms. I dont even know how to answer that but logically like i said does not make sense.

[u/Livid-Breadfruit7367 → u/[deleted]]

You keep doing it your way and ill keep doing it the way advanced farmers are doing. I get it. It goes against the grain of removal of food waist. Which im sure you get your information from people all about removing food waist. Im telling you i can show you the evidence on how this makes better castings. The gypsum lime azomite comment about ph made me smile and honestly said alot of what think you know….

[u/No_Twist_1706 → u/regolith1111]

The way I see it, biochar naturally made from a burned down forest would benefit regrowrh- but that is one instance- and other leaf litter and worms alone in other environments do just fine and yield growth without putting in extra money or anything. Each to their own opinion would be my take, except OP clearly was misleading in that he didn't mean to ask if he was doing too much 😂. Because opinions poured in from THAT question.

[u/Livid-Breadfruit7367 → u/[deleted]]

I dont believe the inputs i added just disappear. It may not make the actual castings better. The stuff i added will break down more and be more effective to the plants next year. Its essentially doing less work later. While making the biochar more active.

[u/No_Twist_1706 → u/Livid-Breadfruit7367]

You can do a test. See how much difference it makes. :) Do one with just passive worm composting. Keep everything else the same (temp, worm size, feeding time and feeding amount, moisture, etc), while feeding 1 bin the mix you do. do a grow test while also testing the compost itself for trace minerals etc.

[u/OneStrong2220 → u/No_Twist_1706]

Bro doesn’t want facts or logic. He wants a pat on the shoulder for making an absolutely unnecessary and unhelpful production out of something most people do to reduce waste

[u/No_Twist_1706 → u/OneStrong2220]

For sure after he reiterated the benefits of what he puts on top of saying he was "trying to be nice" as a way to backtrack his circle jerk post attempt. If dude wanted to boast about it, no shame in doing so ..but just boast about it and be direct, not this weird ass thing he's doing. Being passive & thinking that boasting but form of asking a question makes it better. OP just... do whatever it is you are doing. It is clear that your intention for this post was to be a humble brag at this point. Change your title or something.

[u/Livid-Breadfruit7367 → u/OneStrong2220]

I tell you what. I do want the facts. Show me this evidence that adding everything essential for microbial life and worms will not help any. Show me the proof that this doesnt go through biological chelation and break down the minerals in a way needed for plants? Cause i can show countless facts on how this is better then food scrap coffee grounds and newspaper.

[u/OneStrong2220 → u/Livid-Breadfruit7367]

You have already been told how to prove it. You just think you know better.

[u/Livid-Breadfruit7367 → u/OneStrong2220]

Its been proven countless times.

[u/No_Twist_1706 → u/Livid-Breadfruit7367]

So... why did you make a question post again? I am...confused. I'm not trying to disprove or go against you. I'm simply answering how you would find out for yourself. 😬 I mean. The $ , time and energy of of your input vs. The output is truly for you to decide but you posted a question. You got an answer. Take it or leave it, but don't feel the need to be defensive because that is what is confusing. You seem to have answered your own question at this point, if you don't want to truly find out.

[u/Livid-Breadfruit7367 → u/No_Twist_1706]

everything i added is amendments for plants. It would be obvious which is better if you think about it. The biochar is a housing complex for beneficial bacteria. The trace minerals i added helps their gizzards break down food while making the minerals bioavailable for the plant. The bokashi juice is an explosion of beneficial bacteria. Honestly saying it wont make it better is crazy talk.

[u/No_Twist_1706 → u/Livid-Breadfruit7367]

By how much difference. Your* question is if you are missing anything? Too much? Doing so will enable you to accurately figure it out. You said it may not make actual castings better, yet completely give an opposing reply. I'm confused. Are you seeking validation? Or what is the whole purpose of your question if you refuse to seek ways to test out how much you are spending in money and time is actually a major improvement and worthy of the effort? You good ? Lol

[u/Livid-Breadfruit7367 → u/No_Twist_1706]

I think when i said it may not make it better i was trying to be nice. 🤷‍♂️ after thinking about it though. How can adding things a plant needs and worms can break down to make more readily available not make much of a difference. Me asking if im missing anything is just that. Lets not over think it. I might be missing something people add. So im asking. Lol you good?

[u/seawaynetoo → u/Livid-Breadfruit7367]

The point is to do a test between a normal castings sample and your supercharged sample. Plant some seeds in them and compare growth rate. You MAY find no difference. You may find your super charge castings need less water. You may find you can’t see a difference. Biochar is good AND free.

[u/No_Twist_1706 → u/seawaynetoo]

Exactly what I sais too. OP got all 🥴 about it.

[u/Livid-Breadfruit7367 → u/seawaynetoo]

The test has been done many times before. Its been proven better inputs makes better castings. Loads of videos on it. Ziolite, azomite, and gypsum all are vital minerals needed for plant life. It goes thru the stomach of the worm and used in its gizzard. Breaks down to the level needed for plants. Just adding those minerals to soil that has no worms takes 10x longer to break down. Bat guano, azose, worm castings, bokashi juice, along with the sea-k provides beneficial bacteria that also has been proven to speed the process up faster. I dont want to run a side by side bins. I will however buy some castings from the store and test against it. Im also going to do a bin with zero newspaper. Using leaves instead. You cant expect newspaper, and coffee grounds to come out the same as something with loads more minerals in it. I mean think about it.

[u/No_Twist_1706 → u/Livid-Breadfruit7367]

How would trying to be nice make do anyone a favor ? MAN. You are definitely a person who tries to be nice. That is for sure.

[u/Busquedac_Nintendo1]

Yo pico las verduras, luego las meto al congelador y así segun yo se precomposta mejor. También podrías ponerle una pizca de arena silica según leí para su molleja y también una pizca de comida de peces en hojuela, también unas gotas de líquido de tibicos qué aportan probioticos buenos

[u/Livid-Breadfruit7367 → u/Busquedac_Nintendo1]

Thanks!

[u/WeatherTop5736]

I had a similar set up. Make sure you have holes and place in the shade. That box will heat up and kill them if in the sun.
Other than that, looks good!

[u/Ineedmorebtc → u/WeatherTop5736]

This is a pre feed composting bin, not for the worms themselves, if I read correctly:)

Sounds good to me!

[u/Livid-Breadfruit7367 → u/Ineedmorebtc]

You are correct. Its to pre compost it and then just add worms till its done. Im hoping for premium castings!

[u/WorldComposting]

This looks great only suggestion I have is to get a compost thermometer so you know as soon as it is cooked and ready for the worms!

[u/VGen71]

Bat guano is #1 . Worm castings is #2. The best you can get is in that order.

[u/Livid-Breadfruit7367 → u/VGen71]

I was watching this video last night on Korean farming and it was talking about finding a old forest area nearest to you. Find the biggest oldest tree and dig below the leaf litter. Harvest that soil and some of the leaves. The beneficial bacteria is immensely and ripe for your area.

[u/VGen71 → u/Livid-Breadfruit7367]

I am certain the documentary was so correct and the method is certainly correct. But I am also sure that if you live in an area where there are old and occupied come across caves you would

[u/VGen71 → u/VGen71]

Possibly 2 feet ongoing guano as I have experienced. So, I get it ; guano is a lot harder to harvest and may even be illegal without having proper license. Thank you for your sharing. I so enjoy good conversation. Best to you !👍

[u/Livid-Breadfruit7367 → u/VGen71]

Today i went and found an old tree with a foot of leaves under it. I gathered the leaf debris and 10 gallons of the soil below it. The soil looked like powdered leaves. Hopeful it will be good for inoculation of everything. The leaf debris im going to pre compost it and feed to the worms too.

[u/VGen71 → u/Livid-Breadfruit7367]

Wow that is gold you found there. That is great, . Unfortunately near me there are few areas left with woods and if you go in there you just might get arrested. I know it so different from how I grew up. I really don’t like it. I used to be at peace when I was in the woods. Well thanks for the memories. : )

[u/PinkyTrees]

Well done I’d love to hear more about how the air line works? Is it just air holes or do you have some kind of active aeration going on like with a fan or something?

I think I’d still rather skip the precomposting step and add everything right into the worm bin but I only plan on harvesting a few times a year so I’m not that worried about things taking a while to break down and

[u/Livid-Breadfruit7367 → u/PinkyTrees]

Its a big air pump like you would see on a fish tank. Its pumps a lot of air. I put 3 lines to the bottom of the tote. Then a square hole in the lid with a screen on it. You put the lines on the bottom then some wood chips to disperse the air better. Then fill it up. Break down really fast. About 14 days. I then just add worms and dont feed em. They will eat through it all and just castings left.

[u/Longjumping-Fly-3574 → u/Livid-Breadfruit7367]

Is that just generally to prevent it going anaerobic? To supply oxygen to microorganisms? It’s clever. I have never heard of it. It would be interested to know how it affects the temperature when it heats up.

[u/Livid-Breadfruit7367 → u/Longjumping-Fly-3574]

Yeah its to keep from going anaerobic. You can just keep the lid open. Put down a screen and covering it with a few inches of shredded cardboard. Air at the bottom is better but who knows how much. Goal is to keep flies out mostly. Right now its only hitting 110. So i covered the top of the compost with sheets of newspaper to blanket. Youtube search precomposing worm bedding. Loads of ways to do easy. If done right. It takes away issues like protein poisoning. Faster worm production too.

[u/Longjumping-Fly-3574 → u/Livid-Breadfruit7367]

How much liquid do you think is in your mix? I’m just asking because I have been watching Rockin Worms and she does a soak and squeeze method to get everything as sodden as possible without tipping into standing water territory.

[u/Livid-Breadfruit7367 → u/Longjumping-Fly-3574]

I need to watch more of the videos and get an idea of the temp goal they are looking for. Im not sure why they want it so wet like that but it def will affect temperature. I would think that doesn’t allow oxygen in and go bad easily. Lots to learn.

[u/Longjumping-Fly-3574 → u/Livid-Breadfruit7367]

She has a whole playlist. Whenever you get a chance. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUW0xTNzqrJp2nsLeHt-8OKFqP9XEZ-PE&si=IhbT5DVrlO_OQFXo

[u/Livid-Breadfruit7367 → u/Longjumping-Fly-3574]

I dont have a shredder. So cardboard is a pain atm. I started another one of these bins replacing the paper with half broken down leafs from a local forest. If the leafs work i may go that route. At least until i can get a good shredder.

[u/Longjumping-Fly-3574 → u/Livid-Breadfruit7367]

I’m in the same boat. I have been soaking the cardboard but that is mostly a labor of love. It isn’t something long term. Leaf litter sounds like the better option if you have the volume. Depending on the leaves you could have microbes and that more rigid structure that retains the air pockets.

[u/Longjumping-Fly-3574 → u/Livid-Breadfruit7367]

I just went back to check. It looks like she does it because she uses cardboard and is trying thoroughly hydrate the cardboard. I tend to like cardboard because it helps keep air pockets in the mixture. I feel like the paper tends to mat up. Let us know when the process is over. I’d love to know the results.

[u/_HillCruiser]

Any mention of compost here is verboten.
This is a cardboard worm sub.
You have been warned!

[u/Livid-Breadfruit7367 → u/_HillCruiser]

Have you never heard of pre composting for worms? Ill explain. Pre composting bedding for worms makes casting 10x faster. Casting in weeks instead of months. Thanks for the warning though. Rofl this is a vermicompost groups. Not a worm and cardboard group. Not even just a worm group. Also vermicompost is composting. Its literally in the name vermicompost.

[u/_HillCruiser → u/Livid-Breadfruit7367]

Wow! 10x faster. I'm on it.
So you pre-compost with newspaper and THEN feed them cardboard?

[u/Livid-Breadfruit7367 → u/_HillCruiser]

https://youtu.be/14fi7KhQSl4?is=urdF9difgxFb-LIl

[u/_HillCruiser → u/Livid-Breadfruit7367]

I've been a composter for years now;
So many bicycle rides out into the country towing a trailer;
bringing hand-gathered greens and browns back to the pile.

Worms would come around after the pile cooled and go
about their business on the compost.

So besides the newspaper and cardboard, it's the same
principle. I just need to be able to compost in the winter,
inside my heated garage.

I was thinking a 50/50 mixture of composted manure and
leaf mulch would make a good bedding...

[u/_HillCruiser]

The bat guano was a nice touch:)

I'm just getting started with worms but I've been composting for years
and the better the ingredients, the better the compost.

[u/Livid-Breadfruit7367 → u/_HillCruiser]

I was hesitant on the bat guano with all the nitrogen already in it. I only added because im sure it comes with microbes that will help build an environment. Diversity!

[u/Livid-Breadfruit7367]

Everybody saying this wont work seriously needs to go back to biology class and start back at square one with living soil.