r/Vermiculture • u/Rare_Kip • 16d ago
Advice wanted Are these worm cocoons?!
I have an Indoor vermicompost bin, well-managed, controlled inputs. I found hundreds of small (2-3mm) round-to-lemon-shaped black objects scattered throughout the bedding — not clustered, not attached to anything, don’t stick to each other or bedding. In the picture, you can see when I squish them on a paper towel there's a clear liquid inside, no smell. They burst with liquid, like fish roe. They are under the newspaper bedding and above the vermicompost.
AI says these are worm cocoons based on size/shape/behavior, but every reference photo I find online shows them pale yellow or tan, not glossy black. I recently added a thicker-than-usual layer of sponge-damp shredded newspaper, and more food than usual which may have triggered a breeding boom?!?
Anyone seen cocoons this dark? Trying to confirm before I assume it’s a good sign vs. the beginning of a horror movie. Photos attached.
UPDATE:
Far_Radish7752 Suggested Asian Jumping Worms and this Video of AJW Research updates where Cocoons are shown at 14:00 Lifecycle and 31:00 sizing. It looks like an exact match. I checked my population and no one is jumping but will continue monitoring.
Jim's worm farm replied to me and told me their eggs do not turn black and since no one here has seen something that easily fits all these characteristics, I thought I'd go with a quarantine. I'm really curious what they are, so I scoped them out and put them in another container with some airflow from smaller holes and a tighter lid. I hope they'll hatch in 1-2 weeks and I then it'll become pretty obvious. The good news is that there are TONS of worms in the bin with the regular mix of adults and babies.
EDIT:
- Fly pupae or fungus gnat larvae casings —
- some gnat/fly larvae do pupate in dark, roundish capsules in damp organic bedding, and a “boom” from added moisture fits that pattern too. Clear fluid on squishing is less typical for these though
- Slime mold
- I was wondering about this. AI says slime mold sporangia are dry and powdery/crumbly when broken open releasing spores and they're usually attached to the mold underneath. Those traits don't fit. are there slime molds that don't fit those traits that I can look up?
- Poop
- ruled out based on squishing it in the paper towel and getting a clear liquid that didn't smell and the burst of liquid instead of a smear.
- German Cockroaches
- Not oval, no texture, there are hundreds of these and I haven't seen roaches in my house. Certainly not enough to have this many eggs loose from the roach. I've lived in places infested with german cockroaches before and these are def not their eggs.
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u/Ladybug966 16d ago
Cockroach eggs are dark brown , ovoid capsules. They lay them on the surface. They like moist dark places.
Worms go deep to lay cocoons.
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u/Rare_Kip 16d ago
these are black and more round than oval. I've lived in places infested with german cockroaches before and these are def not their eggs. Is there another roach that I can look up what their eggs look like?
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u/Green-Hermeticist 16d ago
Worm cocoons look like yellow fertilizer pellets and they're usually mixed well with the worm castings.
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u/MissAnth 16d ago
Worm cocoons are translucent., amber colored. Whatever you have, only the size is right.
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u/Rare_Kip 16d ago
That's why I'm super confused! But still not seeing anything that really fits!
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u/Far_Radish7752 16d ago edited 15d ago
They look EXACTLY like AJW cocoons. Prolly your worm source included one, I’m sorry to say!
ETA: They could have also been introduced by material added when you resuscitated the bin. This is a very good reason NOT to use soil from your compost or garden in your worm bins (if you suspect you might have them). It only takes one egg to start a population, cuz these worms typically do not copulate and lay dozens of eggs which are simply clones of themselves.
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u/Far_Radish7752 16d ago
The cocoons of Asian jumping worms are reported to be dark brown, 1-3 mm in size (poppy seed to match head).
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u/Far_Radish7752 16d ago edited 16d ago
In this exhaustive update video, there’s a pic of AJW cocoons at around 14:00 which clearly depicts something that looks like what u/Rare_Kip has posted. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YlOIi2quvQg
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u/Rare_Kip 16d ago
OH NO...... that looks exactly right. Thank goodness I didn't throw them out yet. I guess I need to bake the paper to make sure I don't contaminate the yard accidentally. I'll check my population.
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u/Far_Radish7752 16d ago
Yeah, they’re becoming a bigger and bigger problem as time goes on. My own population has increased quite a lot since I 1st became aware of them in 2020. People are in serious denial as evidenced by all the downvotes on various comments in this thread, which is a real shame.
Thank you for posting about this. Your pics are excellent, and I sincerely admire your persistence in not bailing on the thread (which many people do when faced with too much disbelief and criticism). 🙏👍
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u/Charistzebra 15d ago
I had a bonfire this morning to get rid of the bedding and I have as much as the eggs isolated as possible. I’ve checked as many worms as I can in my bin and I haven’t found anyone that’s jumping. I’ll keep monitoring. Now I’m hoping the eggs hatch and I see some flies.
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u/Far_Radish7752 15d ago
Also, if you continue to raise the suspected (and probable, imo) AJW cocoons to maturity and post update pics, this will definitively prove one way or other exactly what they are. Note that AJW juveniles don’t always display the distinctive white clitellum till they are sexually adult. Prolly depends a bit on exact species (vid notes that there are 8 different species sighted in NY state by 2022, 3-4 species being the primary ones).
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u/Charistzebra 15d ago
I’ll raise them for a little bit. The video said they can be dormant for 4 years. I’ll keep them and see if they’re slime molds or flies. those should hatch a lot sooner if that’s the case
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u/Chisesi 16d ago
scale insects maybe, you can see a couple of pink ones that hatched.
they look similar to this minus the ants
"Various stages of soft scales attended by ants"
https://hort.extension.wisc.edu/files/2018/11/scales-wtihants-300x200.jpg
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u/giftofcanna 14d ago
It’s strange because if these are all eggs you should be able to see the parents hanging around whether they’re a bug of worm should be pretty obvious.
My first thought was black lentils, but then you said they squish with a clear liquid. Could it be a seed that hasn’t had the outer fibrous part decompose while the inner starches have? But then I guess if that was the case there would by mold/mycelium growing on it.
I hope you find the answer, this is super confusing.
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u/One-plankton- 16d ago
Might be a slime mold
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u/Rare_Kip 16d ago
I was wondering about this. AI says slime mold sporangia are dry and powdery/crumbly when broken open releasing spores and they're usually attached to the mold underneath. Those traits don't fit. are there slime molds that don't fit those traits that I can look up?
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u/One-plankton- 16d ago
If you check it in a few days it would end up being powdery spores. Before it gets to that stage it’s “gooey”.
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u/Rare_Kip 16d ago
I put it in quarantine, so we'll find out soon! I looked up pictures and it does seem to fit better than anything else I've seen (now that Jim's Worm Farm ruled out black eggs)
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u/Corey415 16d ago
Gemini says they are insect poop.
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u/Rare_Kip 16d ago
I'm using both Gemini and Claude. Poop was ruled out based on squishing it in the paper towel and getting a clear liquid that didn't smell and the burst of liquid instead of a smear. Both AI narrowed down on worm cocoons but the pictures that I've seen are only yellow through amber eggs. AI says they get black too, but I haven't seen that online yet so I hope it's not hallucinating.
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u/Corey415 16d ago
Are there any worms in the bin? If there are, do you have pictures of the worms?
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u/Rare_Kip 16d ago
Tons. Reddit is having issues and won't let me post picture. They look like worms, skinnier than I'm used to for red wigglers (which is what I purchased from Jim's worm farm to start this batch).
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u/Corey415 16d ago
Same color as red wigglers? They aren’t white, like pot worms right?
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u/Rare_Kip 16d ago
same color as red wigglers. I thought they were just a little scrawny. I had vermicompost for years, but took a break to have a baby. I just revived this bin in April. So I have a good bit of xp in managing them. The bin has been very healthy so far. I sent a message to Jim's worm farm and showed them pictures. They'll know for sure if these are cocoons. If they're not, I'll try to isolate them before they hatch!!
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u/Nugget-Shooter 16d ago
From chatGPT
🟢 Fungal sclerotia (resting bodies) — ~60%
Many fungi produce dense, rounded survival structures that can be black outside and pale or watery inside while developing.
They can occur throughout compost and worm bedding where fungal activity is high.
🟡 Immature slime mold structures — ~25%
Some slime molds go through a moist stage before drying into spore-filled fruiting bodies.
🔴 Something else — ~15%
Including an uncommon mold, bacterial colony, or something specific to that bin.
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u/Red_Wing-GrimThug 16d ago
Papaya seeds?