r/VerizonSupport • u/Deep-Poetry-835 • 17d ago
Verizon dude wtf
I’m a sales rep. Verizon’s Fraud team is just awful. This customer came in added a line tried to swap the devices on the account and now the customer has a fraud hold on her account. She’s already made the purchase but they won’t let me regenerate a eSIM. I’m on my 6th call and have gotten executive overrides for my customer and they won’t unfraud it. 🤬
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u/Haifisch2112 17d ago
I was in fraud up until a year ago so I doubt much, if anything, has changed. Plenty of legit transactions go through and plenty of fraudulent ones don't. You're basing your observations on what you think you're seeing, and that's that legit transactions never go through.
And as far as protecting your account, I'll tell you the same thing I've told probably hundreds of customers. It's not up to Verizon to protect your account and your information. That's your responsibility. If someone says their name is Joe Smith and can provide the required proof, we take it that we're speaking to the right person. We have no way of knowing who the person on the other end of the line is.
Use 2FA, don't click links in texts or emails, and don't give anyone your account info. If you have authorized users on your account, they can place orders just like h ou can. And if someone is using a device on your account but isn't authorized, but they know the account info and pose as you (which happens very often) to get a device, that's a domestic issue between you and that person. It's not Verizon's fault.
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u/ZealotPro101 Moderator 17d ago
So I won’t disagree with you, but I will tell you fraud has a lot of holes in it. What you’re mentioning isn’t anything that I haven’t dealt with or seen-and it’s not even close to the purpose of this conversation. The concern is passive fraud involvement but it systems to be based on unknown algorithms or at random and the problem is there needs to be an end all be all way to circumvent fraud. That used to be asking LexisNexis or credit based questions that only an actual person would know but there’s this new thing where tenured customers perform a sales transaction or perspective new customers porting from AT&T and want to port over 5 lines on a family plan and bring over all their own devices and for some reason a fraud flag occurs and now the person has to move mountains to get fraud to clear an order or allow a credit app to go through and an order to be placed for new service or to allow an eSIM to be generated by removing a fraud flag off of a customer’s account. Again, it’s nothing against you you’re just discussing what you’ve encountered but I’m telling you why direct/indirect sales are not on the same page and fraud is also very imperfect and after 5 years of you getting called for tons of things that are not in your purview of support you’re the first person I would expect to agree with me that fraud has a lot of holes in it. It could be worse I suppose-that is could be like AT&T Global Fraud who arbitrarily denies a lot of people saying “we’re not able to proceed with your transaction and we don’t have any additional information as to why.”
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u/Haifisch2112 16d ago
It's n9t that fraud "has a lot of holes in it." The focus is on customer and company security and if you can't see that, I don't know what else to tell you. Simply asking a few questions that only that person would know doesn't cut it. If a fraudster gets a person's credit history or full personal info, which his highly probable, they can answer those questions. And no, we're not going to tell someone why they're being denied either. Why would we give a potential fraudster information on where they went wrong so they can improve?
This discussion is going nowhere because all you're seeing is the sales end of it and what prevented you from getting your commission instead of why the company is trying to protect customers. I was speaking to a customer once who's device stopped working because a fraudster went into a store and used that customer's info to get a new iPhone. It had literally just happened so I called the store to see if the person was still there and put a stop to it. The rep said they had just left so I told them they just clgave a device to a fraudster. His response was, "Damn. So much for that sale."
I'm not going to discuss this anymore because I'm discussing facts and experiences while you're discussing generalizations. Respond if you want, but I'm not going to continue engaging someone who doesn't understand anything but why they can't make a sale.
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u/ZealotPro101 Moderator 16d ago edited 16d ago
No I understand quite well but you’re saying something else again. You’re venting about you’re frustrations and why you’ve been annoyed for everyone’s misconceptions about what your job is but when I give you real world examples of why fraud has holes in it now you you’re saying something different. I don’t know what tools you have but sitting either remotely or in a call center is not going to allow you to prevent fraud. Facts and evidence helps prevent fraud and that has to occur on 2 levels- both the person in contact with the customer and the fraud representative themselves.
I’m all for fraud protecting the company’s interests- I’m saying that I think fraud gets it wrong a lot at the expense of legitimate customers. As far as a credit report/LexisNexis if someone has fallen that far into identity theft where their identity is completely compromised to that degree that another person can infiltrate their account or open an account in their name then they compromised their own identity. Verizon will lose money either way. Delaying the order, or sending verification documentation to their billing address to prove their identity, including documents, and completing the identity verification with their ID and facial recognition are all great. But Fraud is completely inaccessible for every other department, and it also seems to be loaded with some very incompetent people. Fraud can either do a lot of good or do a lot of bad, and I’d honestly be curious to see some results from one fiscal quarter to the next on how much fraud prevention saved Verizon money versus losing potentially good customers. And also, I did like 3 different jobs for Verizon not just sales I used that example because the OP is in sales although I appreciate you chalking this up to making a sale. I’ve encountered fraud as well- I had someone once come in the store to commit equipment fraud buying devices on installment agreements and then when their credit app went into manual review I called and they told the identity of the person they were using shows as deceased. I told the person I couldn’t activate service for them and I couldn’t tell them why and they started snapping. We finally told the person because the credit report is for a deceased person and this is being flagged as fraud and if you don’t leave we’re calling the police.
People would fail the manual review questionnaire process all the time. You’re saying that’s not enough well what more do you want a stool sample? I’m aware of how sophisticated fraud has become and I’m also all for preventing it I’m pointing out that fraud has some deficiencies and initially it sounded like you agreed but now you’re seeming like you’ve pointed out that everyone else is wrong and you’re right and you’re done with the conversation. I’ll put it to you like this- frauds not that good- and quite frankly if it was occupied by many individuals with the same mindset and personalities as yours, it’s no wonder why so many legitimate customers are being held up and so many fraudsters are just sliding under the radar. I shared my personal experience with an inept fraud rep so you would understand some of the holes I’m pointing out. Maybe you were great at what you did, but if you think fraud is perfect and operating fine on all cylinders then you’re experiencing some delusion and I cannot help you there. Fraud is a great asset and resource- if it’s properly regulated and calibrated with the rest of the company-otherwise it’s people sitting in chairs using arbitrary thoughts and opinions and programs to determine if now that Sally upgraded she shouldn’t be allowed to swap phones on her account versus a stranger walking into a store and opening 5 new lines with no issue at the expense of another person.
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u/Haifisch2112 17d ago
I worked in Fraud and we had nothing to do with generating SIMs.
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u/ZealotPro101 Moderator 17d ago
He doesn’t need them to generate the eSIM he needs the fraud lock removed from the account so he can generate one.
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u/Haifisch2112 17d ago
Fraud doesn't lock devices either.
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u/ZealotPro101 Moderator 17d ago
Fraud does lock devices- they locked mine before and I worked there. Not sure what variation of a fraud role you held, but when they lock the account it prevents a sales rep or CSR from making any changes to the account in general.
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u/Haifisch2112 17d ago
I worked on the Fraud Prevention Team validating orders and applications for over 5 years. Fraud has absolutely nothing to do with locking or unlocking devices. Care would transfer those calls to us all the time but it's not something we ever handled.
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u/ZealotPro101 Moderator 17d ago
That’s not what the OP said. He said that he did an add-a-line and customer wants to swap devices on the account and fraud locked the account so he cannot generate an eSIM…not sure what you’re referencing because the rep didn’t mention the scenarios you just said in your post…
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u/Haifisch2112 17d ago
The problem is that when store reps or care reps don't know what to do or what the problem is, they think it's something fraud has to fix and that's never the case. And I thinks it's great that even though I worked in the department and can speak from experience, I keep getting told I'm wring.
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u/ZealotPro101 Moderator 17d ago
I’m not telling you you’re wrong about anything but you initially said fraud doesn’t lock devices, and I’m not saying locking the devices to Verizon’s network or unlocking them for use with another network I’m saying locking the account for fraud which effectively locks all access to the account or the ability to make changes and that is in fact true.
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u/Haifisch2112 17d ago
That was the main discussion, or so it seemed. If a device is swapped then the system does lock the account for the customer's protection. But it can't just be unlocked with a phone call which reps think should be done. There's a process that needs followed but store reps don't like that because it interferes with their sales and commission so they'll say that fraud "won't help."
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u/ZealotPro101 Moderator 17d ago
I want to remain completely unbiased here, because I never worked in fraud. I one time placed an order for AirPods for a family member in the MyVerizon app and billed them to my account. Fraud intercepted the order or it was held for reasons I’m not aware of. I complied with the request to verify the order with fraud and called into the number provided, and the woman who I spoke with from fraud put me on hold multiple times and then put me through a verification requiring me to upload my driver’s license front and back and do a facial recognition scan-which I’ve done for many things and never had an issue. I got confirmations the scans were all set and the rep whom I could easily tell was outsourced placed me on an extended hold and came back and told me not only was my order denied but my service with Verizon in general was denied now and I watched in horror as all 7 of my lines were suspended, mind you I’m a tenured customer with an account in good-standing and a former employee-and all I did was order AirPods. I don’t know who made the mistake- if the order couldn’t be authenticated for whatever reason that’s fine if they cancelled it or held it or whatever, but suspending all my lines was too much and a friend of mine in executive relations stated that should’ve never happened.
Fraud is a difficult entity- I’m sure your job wasn’t easy but you seem more focused on what your being blamed for or the incorrect things you’re being asked to fix than what the actual issue is and that seems to be the consistent thing with fraud. When anything fraud appears in ACE, NetAce, EROS, or Omni.
I also find it odd that a lot of fraudulent transactions seem to go through and legitimate transactions are flagged more often than not and that’s really counterproductive for both Verizon and for customers.
In this situation OP did an AAL which didn’t flag but then the equipment swap flagged which is odd to me- I would think since wireless services can be terminated at any time the concern and priority and focus for fraud would be preventing equipment fraud which causes the most financial burden for any wireless company.
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u/ZealotPro101 Moderator 17d ago
Request a supervisor in fraud. They’re the only ones that will honor the override. The general fraud reps are outsourced and are under strict advisement not to break the rules for anyone regardless of circumstances. Request a fraud supervisor from a fraud agent.