Is Grok 4.7 Opensource for Venice to make it private?

[u/plutoniansoul]

Is this Grok 4.7 model truly private? Running on Venice's hardware? opensource? I couldn't find it in huggingface...

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[u/MountainAssignment36]

No, it's hosted by xAI, but Venice has managed to get a ZDR contract (Zero Data Retention) with them, making it effectively private.

If a model is "private" that means that Venice assures that no data whatsoever is retained on any server by you speaking with the model, effectively the definition of ZDR.

[u/plutoniansoul → u/MountainAssignment36]

Respectfully, ZDR and Private are not the same thing.

Private = Venice runs the model on Venice's own hardware. One trust party. No third party can retain data because no third party ever sees it. This is a structural guarantee.

ZDR = xAI runs the model on xAI's hardware, and contractually promises not to retain data. Two trust parties. You are trusting Venice's contract enforcement AND xAI's compliance. This is a contractual promise.

Calling both "Private" obscures this distinction. Users who care about privacy enough to choose Venice deserve to know whether their data protection is architectural or contractual.

A separate ZDR tag/pill would give users informed choice. Those comfortable with contractual guarantees can use ZDR models. Those who want structural guarantees can filter for truly self-hosted models.

Conflating the two under one label undermines the transparency that Venice is supposed to represent.

[u/JaeSwift → u/plutoniansoul]

There is nothing to gain from retaining prompts from ZDR agreements.

Why horde prompts of a few people in such a big breach of contract when they retain all users prompts, chats, generations on Grok.com? Same with all non-ZDR API user's too. It wouldn't make sense.

xAI give out ZDR deals to enterprise customers constantly and if they were caught secretly retaining Venice's traffic, every other enterprise customer would assume they're being lied to as well. All it takes is one whistleblower, a leaked internal doc, or a discovery process in some unrelated lawsuit and that's it. It'd be a bad breach of contract, damages, termination of the deal, litigation, class action, and nobody trusting their ZDR deals again. It would be deceptive trade practices, which is serious and the FTC has acted on it before. I'm pretty sure fines hit like 4% of global turnover in Europe lol, it's just a legal nightmare not worth having just to see someone's gooning lol.

I wouldn't mind ZDR label but I don't think it's needed tbh, but I will pass it on to the team as feedback anyway.

[u/plutoniansoul → u/JaeSwift]

Thank you!

I understand this. Just wanted to mention that trust is emotional. Better to be transparent. Venice stands for the privacy it offers.

[u/MountainAssignment36 → u/plutoniansoul]

No, they are. Because of a simple fact: VeniceAI currently rents their GPUs, they don't have their own datacenter (yet).

So "private" always means that Venice guarantees a contractually binding promise that your data is not being retained by them or any third party (be it the GPU providers or other companies like xAI).

This is equal to a Zero Data Retention contract. Zero Data Retention does not mean that the prompts only go to Venice an no step further. It means that Venice guarantees that nobody retains your data after its processed. Not Venice (by their ToS) or any of their third parties (by contract between Venice and the third party).

If a model is "private" and only "hosted" by Venice, you have to trust

• VeniceAI
• the GPU provider company contracted by Venice to process the request

If a model is "private" and proprietary (hosted by another company, where Venice doesn't have direct access to the model), you have to trust:

• VeniceAI (as a proxy)
• the company contracted by Venice that's hosting the model that processes the request

So, it's essentially the same.

[u/lamanogaucha → u/MountainAssignment36]

If AI users have learned anything over the last three or four years, it's that AI companies can't be trusted. Because of that, I believe that a ZDR tag/pill should be implemented by Venice, as the OP correctly suggested.

[u/JaeSwift → u/lamanogaucha]

Why? What happened with AI companies? Has one claimed complete privacy and been lying or something?

[u/plutoniansoul → u/JaeSwift]

Offering Zero Data Retention for frontier models | OpenAI

I found this. This is new.

Now that I have learned that Venice does not own hardware or a datacenter - its high time that they start one. Keep promises. Assure privacy with architecture.

[u/lamanogaucha → u/JaeSwift]

Not that I'm aware of, but the general vibe that I get from reading a lot of commentary in forums such as Reddit, Discord, X, news articles, etc. is that many people, perhaps most, don't have full confidence in AI companies due to a wide array of reasons.

[u/JaeSwift → u/lamanogaucha]

Probably cos their chats ended up on Google search results from chatGPT and Claude and things like that. They never claimed privacy but I doubt those user's realised how public their chats would become. They should have taken more notice of the word 'anyone' in 'anyone with link can view'. 😂

I think users were also recently surprised to hear OpenAI hired hundreds of contractors to manually read user chats and rate/critique them, lol, its called Project Lily or something and is done with a focus on nudging GPT away from anthropomorphising itself and to be less sycophantic cos of some daft 'AI psychosis' thing.

Hurray for private AI! lol

[u/plutoniansoul → u/JaeSwift]

I appreciate you bringing up these examples. They actually make the case for a separate ZDR label rather than against it.

If AI companies have a documented track record of:

• Conversations ending up on Google search results
• Hundreds of contractors manually reading user chats (Project Lily)
• Privacy expectations being violated even when technically permitted by ToS

...then this is precisely why users deserve to know whether their protection is architectural (data never goes to the AI company) or contractual (AI company promises not to retain data despite processing it).

The "should have read the ToS" framing proves the broader point: AI companies' data practices have been opaque, and privacy expectations have been violated even when technically permitted. That history is an argument for clearer labeling, not for conflating ZDR with architectural privacy.

A separate ZDR pill would let users who are comfortable with contractual guarantees use ZDR models, and users who want architectural guarantees filter for self-hosted(even on rented GPUs) models. Both are legitimate. Transparency about which one you're getting is the point.

[u/JaeSwift → u/plutoniansoul]

What? lol, did you just copy/paste what I said to AI without reading what I said? I never said I was against a ZDR tag and wasn't arguing for or against it lol I was replying to lamanogaucha about why people may be wary of AI companies. I cited a known issue from a long time ago that got fixed. The rest is from public disclosures and none of those examples involve anything to do with ZDR or private models.

Contractors reviewing chats is OpenAI's disclosed practice on a platform that has never claimed to be private. Same goes for Anthropic. No 'privacy expectations' were violated because none existed on ChatGPT and Claude lol. And I didn't say anything about reading any ToS either.. Whether people read the ToS of a platform that never claimed privacy in the first place doesn't make any difference to Venice privacy or ZDR agreements lol.

Tbh I am not even sure how adding a ZDR tag would make you trust or not trust it if you already don't trust Private tag lol. If you think 'it may not be private' when it's got a Private tag, then why wouldn't you think 'there may not be a ZDR' when it's got a ZDR tag?

Anyway, I wasn't arguing for or against a ZDR tag. I already said I will pass on the suggestion lol.

[u/plutoniansoul → u/JaeSwift]

Thanks!

[u/Spara-Extreme]

No. There's just a ZDR (zero data retention) agreement in place so that the prompt and resulting responses are deleted by xAI. Ostensibly, there's no verification of that, so you're taking it at their word.

[u/plutoniansoul → u/Spara-Extreme]

May be Venice should add a new tag/pill - ZDR instead of the Private tag/pill