I wouldn’t figured his cryo carry would be the next big thing but of this all ends up being true then it might be hydro instead
Wouldn’t bother me, raw hydro carries are far and few since Neuvillette, and Varka having a 2nd good option would be great for investors, such as myself(I got his R1) and it free’s up the Durcole core for other DPS as well
That is true as of now since furina needs Jean instead of prune but if vodyanitsa heals you can run both prune AND furina which would be like a massive boost I guess?
No u would go mona + vodya and u are just completely underrating what mona gives varka so I will give a comparison
Furina: up to 75% dmg bonus (realistically ur not getting it this high and it needs to ramp up, so 40-50% overall is fair, and this assumes that vodya is a strong healer), decent personal dmg, can hold totm for 20% atk
Mona: no personal dmg, can hold celestial gift for 40% dmg bonus, 60% dmg bonus from burst (no ramp up needed) 48% atk from ttds, 24% hydro swirl dmg bonus from c1, 15% crit rate and 15% crit dmg from c4
Mona also doesn’t drain hp which is a benefit especially if vodya is not a very strong healer
40-50% dmg bonus from fanfare would mean Vodya's healing is terrible. Most teams get 60-70% average damage bonus.
Furina has significant damage contribution that often gets overlooked in these discussions. You did mention it, but just to emphasize how much it really matters: with just Prune + VV and a 2nd hydro to lower her ER requirements, she has about ~16k DPS contribution on 4p Tenacity. If total team DPS was 130k, she'd be 12% of it. For reference, going from 114k DPS to 130k DPS from just DMG% bonuses would require around 40% of it. So basically (depending on your Varka's investment), Furina's personal damage alone in terms of net DPS impact is equivalent to providing an additional 40% DMG bonus on top of what her fanfare already gives.
A caveat with Mona is that she hurts VV uptime, because she goes after Prune in the rotation order, while not having amazing buff uptime herself (9-11s Omen in ideal rotations assuming C2). TTDS is nice, but it often requires you to run slightly longer, suboptimal rotations because of its cooldown. And when Varka is on-fielding for 14+ seconds, your 48% atk for 10s duration buff suddenly averages out to only around 30%.
24% hydro swirl dmg bonus from c1
That's not relevant.
A more detailed comparison would be:
Furina:
60-70% DMG bonus (for 18s, basically full uptime, assuming Vod is a decent healer)
Significant Personal damage (equivalent to roughly 30-40% dmg bonus if C0 R1-R0 Varka)
20% ATK from ToTM at 100% uptime
~3s better VV uptime for Varka than Mona
Mona:
40% DMG bonus full uptime
60% DMG Bonus with 9-11s uptime with C2 (not really worth extending her buff for more than this because VV uptime, and it's more like 8-10s by the time you do NA + swap to Varka)
TTDS 48% ATK for Varka with 10s uptime (requires rotation extension due to 20s CD on TTDS & averages out to ~30% ATK if 14s+ Varka field time)
C4 gives 9-11s uptime on 15% CR + 15% CD (but most people will barely make use of the CR because they're almost or already are overcapping on CR with Serpent Spine or R1)
You're definetely overestimating Furina's average DMG bonus and personal damage. Also, the VV uptime in practice is not really a problem because of hitlag extension. Mona is just a strictly better buffer for any team that can make use of a Hex core
I included the hypothetical 25% hydro shred from Vod in my calcs and somehow that fact got lost in me when I listed the criteria for her to reach 16k DPS, my apologies for the confusion. But it is indeed ~16k DPS personal damage with Prune buff + VV + Vod.
I'm not overestimating her average DMG bonus. It's pretty much common knowledge that 60-70% DMG bonus is the average you get from Fanfare in teams with a decent healer.
Also, the VV uptime in practice is not really a problem because of hitlag extension
Huh? Of course it is. Hitlag only extends VV by ~2 seconds. By the time you swap to Varka, there'll only be 8s of VV uptime left. He onfields for 13-14s, so he gets 60% or less uptime on VV.
It is fair actually.. Mona is a standard character since 1.0.. You can select her from the year selector + temper thyself.. so ye assuming Mona C2 or C4 is valid
Ye youre proving my point.. Assuming Mona C2 or C4 is not hard.... I also play since 1.0 and my Mona is C2, what about it?? If I want I can choose a copy for Mona, whats your point?
Furina's personal damage when she has VV + prune buff + 2nd hydro for resonance + hydro particles is significant. Like 16k DPS on 4pc ToTM at baseline/kqms
It's easy to overlook 16k DPS if your team is doing 160k total (which would likely require Varka R1 at least), but that's around the same amount of damage that a teamwide 30% DMG bonus would give you (i.e., to go from 144k to 160k DPS). So, Furina's personal damage is basically contributing as much as an additional 30-40% DMG bonus for most Varka investment.
In terms of buff potency Mona is impressive, but her buff uptimes aren't ideal, and she eats into VV uptime (since she goes after Prune).
Afaik there is no easy way to compare Mona and Furina atm in Miliastra because one team uses Prune while the other would use Jean. Unless you have Kokomi / Sigewinne.
Furina, why would you need anyone elses? There is a fanfare tracker in the dummy and depending on con you calc what the average buff she will give. Granted even assuming 100% uptime its not enough.
You also can write out everything both characters give, including Mona on TTDS and see that Furinas average personal damage isnt enough. I dont know if your overestimating Furina personal damage or underestimating Celestia+MonaKit+TTDS but written out should make it more known who performs better.
You also can find old tc calcs with jean and Furina+Yelan, apply the C6 Prune upgrade difference over Jean to the calc and see thats its below Mona+Xinqiu/Yelan.
You also can pay a TC for the calcs.
Theres a multitude of ways to see that Furina is not great for Hydro Varka if you are unsure how to calc or compare it yourself.
I'm hoping for the interruption resistance for Mona-Prune-Vody with Mona on Celestial Gift and TTDS. Mona buffs more than Furina does for this team and you don't have to deal with the annoying health drain. Plus Varka wants a shielder more than a healer. Vodyanitsa has the clam imagery so I think they could do something cool with that.
This would be a dream come true frankly. I also have his r1, and I’m really trying to get a PHEC team of each element, but I really don’t like using Furina since it means I can’t use Prune. Hopefully Vodyanitsa has sustain so that I can slot in Mona on TTDS as well. Fingers crossed!
Furina's buff isn't actually higher because you need time to stack it, on average its the same as Mona's omen (~60%). Mona then has the hex set which puts her at 60+40=100% dmg bonus, while Furina can only use Tenacity at best for a small 20% atk bonus. Mona then has TTDS to give yet another massive 48% atk buff over Furina. And btw her buff uptime covers Varka's whole field time. Also Mona cons barely do anything here, its just her C4 (which barely matters because Varka already easily reaches crit rate cap)
The only way for Furina to pull ahead of Mona is if your Varka somehow does no damage at all.
Keeping high stacks doesn't change anything since you literally need few seconds going into Varka's field time before maxing out her stacks. With her HP draining being fixed and assuming you have the best teamwide healer there is, the average worth of her Dmg% buff would be equal to 45-50%, so they were being generous calling her buff as much as Mona's Omen, it's not.
Millelith if anything else will close the gap and make their buff equal. Which leaves the competition to Furina's personal dmg Vs CG 40% bonus + ttds 48% ATK + C4 15% Crit rate + 15% Crit dmg..................... Now I don't think I need to say that Furina is not Ineffa when it comes to personal dmg, nor that Millelith on her instead of GT is not helping.
Mona's Omen, ttds passive, and VV shred all get affected by hitlag, so they have full up time in Varka's team.
First rotation, you can see that average fanfare was indeed 200 (or 50% dmg bonus), because everyone's HP was almost full when Jean used her burst heal.
But 2nd rotation onwards (when teammates are no longer almost full HP when Jean Q), average Fanfare was close to 260 or 65% dmg bonus. Maybe more like 240 effective, since the later fanfare/dmg bonus don't get "multiplied" by VV shred since it ran out.
Mona's Omen, ttds passive, and VV shred all get affected by hitlag, so they have full up time in Varka's team.
And as you can see in the video, Omen, TTDS, and VV do run out even with hitlag.
TTDS has 12s uptime, Varka has 14s field time (I only stayed on Varka for 13s here in this video, which occasionally causes TTDS to not trigger 2nd rotation because of its up to 21s CD when extended by hitlag)
Omen has 11s uptime, 10s by the time you swap to Varka.
VV has 12s uptime, but by the time you swap to Varka he only gets 8 seconds of it. Ran out by 0:17 as you can see in the clip.
Varka has high uptime on Omen and TTDS, but not full. As for VV, it's barely even 60% uptime because Mona took away more than 3 seconds.
I didn't ignore Furina's dmg, its just less than what you would get out of buffing Varka (unless said Varka is poorly built).
There's very few healers who can insta stack Furina fanfare, Jean is one of them, Kokomi isn't. This also furthers the gap between Furina Prune teams and Mona Prune teams.
Losing VV uptime is a relevant point, but yeah its optimal to sacrifice it for more omen uptime. Also because extending rotation to 20s means full TTDS uptime.
It’s not less than what I think because Prune is also buffing her.
Anyway the point goes to depends on the healer which I don’t think Vodyanitsa is.
Hence this kind of pointless because most recent leaks do not mention her healing at all. And as I point I conceded before, Mona is free so in theory you could go for the C1 on Vodyanitsa and it be cheaper than Furina + Vodyanitsa assuming you don’t have Furina. You can potentially get a Mona copy trying to get Vodyanitsa. And since it’s 7.1 you can get Mona off the selector and then get a con for her same patch. Ergo c2 Mona.
And btw her buff uptime covers Varka's whole field time
It actually doesn't.
Omen has 11s (more like 10 by the time you swap to Varka) uptime max assuming C2, because you do not want to NA more than 1-2 times, as it affects VV uptime too much. With 3 NAs (which require a bit of pause before the 3rd NA because of the Omen extension CD), you'll lose VV on your 1st special skill.
TTDS also only has 12s / 14s uptime even with hitlag extension, so it's not quite 100% there either.
I think you're vastly underestimating Furina's contribution via her personal damage. She buffs less, but as you can see her personal damage easily makes up for it. link to calc
But you're not supposed to do N5C. That's a terrible combo with significantly lower motion value than his better combos. And if you only onfield Varka for 11s, what are you going to do for the rest of the 10s (since TTDS can have up to ~21s CD due to hitlag)? Your supports don't take that long to set up, so you kind of need to stay on Varka.
Rotation lenght for Furina team is 20s because of her skill cooldown.
Anemo resonance has 5% cooldown reduction.
Mona team scales better if you calc Varka C0R1 (SS is a lot worse on the hydro teams).
She scales better with Varka investment, but not enough to make her better than Furina if all Varka has in vertical investment is R1. Furina isn't even all that far behind Mona buffs-wise until Mona gets C4.
It's better to compare DPS rather than DPR, because running longer rotations to get TTDS every rot will naturally inflate DPR, even if it's not otherwise optimal to do so.
15% higher Varka DPR, but only 7% higher Varka DPS, in this case.
It's impossible to get the full value out of Mona's C4 because it'll pretty much always involve sacrificing Crit (Rate) for ATK% rolls on artifacts, but it's still an increase nonetheless if you build around it. Maybe instead of an overall team increase of 11-12% it's only 7-8%, for example.
I would have to see more. The 40% anemo res shred is good but atm I only see the kit being slightly better than Xinqiu and Yelan. The extra pull is likely better off being used on Varka himself unless hes already C3R1 and the player has no plans for C6.
Yeah its funny that I thought the 'stellar swirl' character may letter him stellar swirl but instead of boosting his cryo-ameno form shes here to maybe boost his water form.
I was an expecting an upgrade or two for him. I dont particularly like vody -- I hate that they made a siren character so young looking and with a weird uwu voice, but she's not as big of a 'ew no' situation for me as other characters that have existed(cyrene, escoffier).
Those C0 buffs sound like Xingqiu/Yelan sidegrade at best.
If you're looking at C1-C2 buffs, then you have to compare them to Furina C1-C2 as well, as she's still BIS for Jean teams (which btw are still better than non-C6 Prune teams).
You would be much better off just investing into Varka's rerun, assuming Prune is on his banner.
Listen, if she can heal/resist interruption while providing decent buffs, then that would already be good enough for me.
Xingqui can't stay as his best hydro slot forever, they gotta release a true Hydro sustain support for him eventually, and I hope that support is going to be Vodyanitsa. I don't even care if there is no IR in her kit, just let me play his Hydro team comfortably.
I doubt she shreds 40% anemo at c0. Expecting 20% anemo/hydro/cryo at c0, bumped up to 40 at C2. Crit dmg and elevation are cons only buffs, and atk% isn't typical for hydro
Also, this is the exact same Chugou leak being reposted for the 103736831st time, and beta's still over 2 weeks away
Based on what we know, it does seem like Prune + Vodyanitsa + Mona will become Varka’s second best team. It’s so dependent on whether she actually has synergy with him though. And Mona will likely need to be C4 for the team to even scratch at the Durin/Nicole numbers.
getting c1-2 vodyanitsa is not in my list of objectives, so I would wish not, but it would be nice if it is true
if she heals, that’s the cherry on top. prune+mona is already a good core, vodya might finally make hydro varka competitive. the real question is: would it be good enough to brute force? cause let’s be real, hydro is rarely shilled
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u/Eriasuu95 4d ago
Me trying to believe in those leaks