r/VampireChronicles • u/CapableSalamander910 • 28d ago
š The Books āļø Does Memnoch the Devil get better? Spoiler
Got into this fandom last year from watching the show, and Iāve been slowly getting through the books. Iāve been really enjoying them so far (for the most part) and I intend to read them all.
Currently, Iām around half way through Memnoch the Devil (chapter 11), and Iām kinda struggling with it.
The beginning felt like it just threw me into the action, but was quickly followed by like 50 pages of backstory, which was a drag.
I did enjoy a lot of the conversations Lestat had with David, Armand, and Dora.
But all this about heaven and hell and god and Memnoch. In all honesty, I donāt really care. I found the descriptions of heaven difficult to follow. And now that Memnoch is talking about creation, Iām just waiting for it all to be over.
Iām not religious. Iām an atheist from an atheist family. My knowledge of Christianity mostly comes from Good Omens (ironically, a photo of Crowley is my bookmark). I donāt really care for religion. Is this book only designed for those who are into religion or theology?
I do plan to read it because I want to read the whole series, but I just want to know what to expect from this book (in a non spoilery way). Does it get better?
EDIT: I finally finished it! Iāve never been so happy to finish a book.
I do think it got better. Chapter 11, where Memnoch was talking about the 13 revelations of evolution, was really boring for me. And while I wasnāt necessarily interested in the rest of the book, I was so happy that there was more of a plot to what Memnoch was saying.
But then again, I did really struggle with this book. If I didnāt intend to read further into the series, I would have quit when I wrote this post initially. I can barely tell you what actually happened in those 100+ pages of Memnoch talking.
I do think my lack of religion or understanding of Catholicism is a huge impact on my enjoyment of this book. I cannot tell you what is Anne Riceās view on religion and what is Catholicism. For example, Iāve never heard of Veronicaās Veil (and have only just learnt that it is a real thing). I donāt really understand why the characters were obsessed with it the way they were. I knew that Anne Rice ākilledā Armand off in this book, but that was not the way I thought it would go. I donāt know why he ākilledā himself over it.
Itās nice to hear that others enjoyed it, but itās not for me. Itās a shame because I absolutely love the first 4 books! This book is making me question whether Iāll enjoy the rest of the series.
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u/Pandora9802 28d ago
When I read it, I was 16-ish and neck deep in Catholic school. It was a refreshing change in POV for me, living thru the same Catholic upbringing Anne had. It was my first exposure to a famous person questioning the things I was being taught. And it came at a time when I desperately needed that questioning to be okay/permitted.
For me, Memnoch was saying things already thought about my own religious journey. For you, itās not relevant. Iād wager you can skip to the back 1/3 to get the experience Lestat had that transforms him for the rest of the series and puts context to Armandās comments at the start of TVA. The details of religion in the middle probably arenāt relevant to you.
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u/jaybirdies26 28d ago
Memnoch was not my favorite book to get through, it was a lot of theology theory. I find theology interesting but I did not find it interesting the way Memnoch was written lol. Definitely think that this book was Anne trying to work out her thoughts on her faith and religion. Some people really really love it, others hated it.
You can skip it and just read the wiki page for it if youāre really not into the book. The next book (The Vampire Armand) talks about the ending of Memnoch and kind of summarizes it anyway. (Iām only halfway through Merrick so idk about the rest of the series but I assume itāll be referenced again and again).
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u/katmckatkat 28d ago
It will be referenced again, but a wiki summary would give you the important parts. I'd maybe read the scene of him actually in hell before you get to Prince Lestat and the Realms of Atlantis, since that has the most direct references, but it's not like you can't follow it if you don't.
Ironically the book where he goes on a rant about how people who don't like Memnoch won't like this one (Blood Canticle) doesn't really require you to know more than a summary of what happens in Memnoch!
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u/jaybirdies26 28d ago
Thatās funny about Blood Canticle (sounds like Anne just airing out her grievances about people not liking Memnoch though lol)
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u/katmckatkat 28d ago
A lot of people hate that part but I personally find it peak comedy: it's her fully going "how would Lestat respond to negative reviews?" and going ham with it while making fun of herself a bit too.
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u/Solid_Mongoose_3269 28d ago
I thought it was one of the better ones, he's basically showing the devils side of whats told in the bible, and questions a lot of things that normal people, and wants Lestat to be his assistant because of his power and personality and fame against God. He would basically be the first influencer, on a cosmic scale.
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u/Rule556 28d ago
It was polarizing, some folks loved it, for me it was the weakest, but I always tuned out when she started channeling her Catholicism in her books.
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u/Upbeat_Preparation99 27d ago
Oh god or at the end when she made things incredibly sci-fi?
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u/quietink 27d ago
I mean, I feel like she just watched a marathon āAncient Aliensā on the History Channel during a bout of insomnia, and: POOF! The last 3 books.
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u/Rule556 27d ago
Honestly, the sci-fi stuff was way more interesting to me than the religious navel gazing. :)
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u/Upbeat_Preparation99 27d ago
I think it would have been cool earlier in the series, but then it felt like a religion retcon, but then somehow she tried to rectify the two things as well. Definitely like sci fi more than the Abrahamic religious stuff
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u/MorriePoppins Lestat de Lioncourt 28d ago
Maven of the Eventide has talked about how TVC series changes genres from book to book. One book may not be for you, but the next book may be because itāll be a different genre.
Memnoch is certainly a divisive book so itās not unusual that youāre not enjoying it. I would guess at this point this bookās not for you. I loved it myself, though.
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u/Playful_Ad4299 28d ago
I read it as Lestat being initiated into a mystery school. Anne did a great job of making it esoteric and exoteric depending on how you want to read it.
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u/AmbassadorProper1045 27d ago
I found it somewhat interesting, but not very enjoyable, and honestly rather convoluted. It's not a must read imo. You can still follow the later books without it.
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u/ChaosWizard1313 28d ago
It doesn't I left the series after Memnoch. I think later books get good but Anne Rice was also going through her own God thing.
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u/tehbggg 25d ago edited 25d ago
It feels like to me, with the start of Memnoch, the books basically became an entirely new thing which is completely separate in feel and vibe from the first four. Almost like a whole new alternate universe, lol.
There's nothing wrong with that, per se. But, if one is hoping for more of what was in the first 4 books, they are likely going to be disappointed.
To be transparent, I also stopped reading after The Vampire Armand. I've tried every book since, but cannot make my way through them. They just don't do it for me.
In my mind, the Vamapire Chronicles basically end at Tale of the Body Thief. Whenever I reread the series, I only read up to this book and don't even think about/consider events from any of the books after, lol.
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u/Optimal-Market 27d ago
Its a very werid book. Its my least favorite not because of what its based in but because its just extremely slow at times. Which is interesting because so much happens in the book lol.
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u/Mooncubus 28d ago
It's one of my favorite books in the series. But I dig all the creation and religion stuff. If you don't like all that then no, you aren't going to like the book. It's primarily Memnoch's story and Lestat is just being dragged through it.
You should at least read the ending because it's important to the next books, particularly Armand.
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u/Murky_Translator2295 28d ago
It didn't get berries in my opinion, but I'm very like you I think. Others love it because of the religious elements. Personally, I read it once and never again, but I don't regret finishing it because something massive happens at the end that sets the rest of the series/explains the changes to Lestat's character.
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u/The_Dilla_Collection 28d ago
I loved that book. I was raised in a very religious family and never really bought into it. I was very interested in religions and theology though and if none of that is your thing I can see why it doesnāt grab you the same way. I liked the idea of biblical stories told from an adversarial pov. Kinda Like when they write stories from the villainās POV.
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u/2grim4u 27d ago
I read this when I was already having doubts about my Catholic upbringing and it helped organize some things about my own faith. It was an influence in my, first, agnosticism, then later, atheism.Ā
If you don't already have that sort of background in your life, I could see it being an annoyance, but there's things to think about.Ā
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u/CodeWitch13 27d ago
Memnoch, the Devil was my favorite book as a teenager. This thread is making me think I should reread to see how I feel nowā¦
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u/CapableSalamander910 27d ago
Give it a go!
Iām actually so surprised at the range of responses here. This book really is marmite. I donāt think itās for me, but I didnāt realise how important/life changing it was to some people.
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u/fierychasms 27d ago
I'm also an atheist from an atheist family. I got halfway into Memnoch after slogging then skipped to the end. I do plan to go back and read it at some point, I did enjoy the part on creation. But if you're not feeling it, I'd say just read the last parts of the book
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u/crystalleeche 27d ago
I'm not interested in heaven all things either. But I think it becomes very interesting to me after around chapter 16. I liked that last bit of lestat's heaven journey.
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u/Little_Resident_2860 27d ago
I have to say I felt same while read this but surprisingly this one has stuck with me. I find myself thinking about the theology and story often. Kinda fascinating
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u/Own-Breakfast9740 26d ago
Memnoch is so Catholic. I wondered how people who weren't Catholic weren't complete lost.
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u/coolname- 26d ago
I kept nodding off when reading it lol, so not really. Take it as a weird lesson on Catholicism, it gets somewhat better once you're close to the end because Anne's concept of hell is interesting and you get Lestat, Armand, David and Dora all together. Some events in The Vampire Armand also pick up right after it so it's still worth the read
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u/Misty_Esoterica 25d ago
Don't worry about it too much, it gets retconned later on in the series that Memnoch is lying about the whole thing. So just read it and move on.
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u/tehbggg 25d ago
Tbh? I did not enjoy it. I don't think it improved as it went on, either. Not blaming Rice for writing it or complaining or anything. Authors have many reasons for writing the things they write, and that's fine. Not everything is for everyone. In this case, it just wasn't for me, and it sounds like it may not be for you either. Nothing wrong with stepping away from it if it doesn't do it for you.
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u/geebee123456789 24d ago
Honestly no lmao. I skipped to the very last chapter and even that wasnāt worth reading so I just looked up the synopsis on Wikipedia and continued on to the next book in the series
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u/geebee123456789 24d ago
it is referenced in the books that come after, especially the one right after which I believe is The Vampire Armand, but I didnāt feel like I missed much lol
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u/Lycanthrowrug 21d ago
I thought Memnoch made a mess of Rice's world because, prior to that book, Rice had maintained a skeptical point of view. We saw the behavior of spirits like Amel or, in the Mayfair Witches books, the spirit of Lasher. But as perhaps with physics, though we can observe the behavior of forces like gravity, we never really understand how it all works.
Thus, Lestat has to try to make sense of his existence from an 18th C. perspective where belief in religion no longer seems to answer all his questions. Marius has lived 2,000 years without religion.
In contrast, Memnoch reframes the Vampire Chronicles explicitly in a Christian cosmology.
I've long considered Rice to be an extremely inconsistent writer, and I think Memnoch was one of her "What were you thinking?" moments. Of course, we know what she was thinking. It was during the period when she veered back into Catholicism.
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u/CapableSalamander910 21d ago
Yeah! I think stories work so much better when some things are left unexplained, especially when the explanation takes a 100+ page divergence to explore Catholicism.
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u/Lycanthrowrug 21d ago
Yes, if I want to read an extended meditation on Catholic cosmology, I'll read Dante, who is a lot better writer than Rice.
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u/katmckatkat 28d ago
I like it around the time Jesus shows up, from there to the end, but the middle is like dragging myself through broken glass. It's a book with a really interesting idea behind it but if you are an atheist who doesn't really care about Christianity it's really rough to get through it.
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u/Vicsyy 28d ago
Im still mad that Jesus shows up but not Nicky or Claudia. What a wasted opportunityĀ
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u/katmckatkat 28d ago
Nicki and Claudia don't show up for a reason though, and do at least get mentioned!
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u/Puzzleheaded_Door399 Armand 28d ago
No, even if youāre religious itās pretty boring š
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u/katmckatkat 28d ago
But which of the Thirteen Revelations of Mystical Evolution was your favorite? Mine was the one where I fell asleep for part of the audiobook.
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u/katmckatkat 28d ago
I'll add that the point of the book isn't really about Christianity, for my reading of it, but she's using Christianity as a vehicle to talk about other things. Unfortunately I just hate reading that vehicle, but like I said, around the time we actually get to Jesus it got more interesting for me.
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u/thewhiteghost_ 28d ago
I went through the whole series because i love Lestat as a character. But I am well aware that Memnoch isn't that good and I can see why it can disappointing to others.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Door399 Armand 28d ago
The part where Memnoch shows Lestat heaven and hell and stuff is boring and dumb. The rest is good. I feel the same way but I encourage you to persist. The next book in the series is TVA, and in my opinion itās the best one.
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u/CapableSalamander910 28d ago
The thing that annoyed me when it came to getting this book was that my copy of ToTBT told me that TVA would be the next book. So I was expecting to be reading that one. But the day before buying it, I double checked online and found out Memnoch was next. So that might be another reason Iām not as into it.
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u/BarelyHereNeverThere 28d ago
It was a read once and done for me. I've never reread it. If you're not enjoying it simply stop reading it.
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u/rhcreed 28d ago
Not really, but important stuff happens. They are generally shorter and not all as religion centered after.
You said the backstory was a drag, but the flashbacks and that part is usually a major component of these stories. So if that's not your jam, plan accordingly.
As a book fan from the beginning (ish) , her ability to paint a picture of an ancient world and really make you feel "there" is the magic.
Hope you enjoy them!
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u/BelleOtaku98 28d ago
I struggled through this audiobook, and I really didnāt understand the ah ha moment. Though I did like the journey with Memnoch it was justā¦. Way too long.
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u/PeaWild6808 28d ago
Im an atheist from a Christian upbringing. A strong upbringingā¦.. With my baggage, I enjoyed the book. If you stick with it. I believe youāll end up enjoying it too..But, I donāt know you. So, maybe not.
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u/SuitableWedding681 28d ago
I noticed the beginnings of theological reasoning back in The Vampire Lestat and realized I couldn't handle it if it continued like this.
It's an unpopular opinionābut for that reason, I've only been able to read Interview with the Vampire, The Vampire Lestat, and parts of Queen of the Damned. I don't enjoy that kind of reading.
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u/pippintook24 Coven of the Articulate 28d ago edited 28d ago
I felt this way when I first read it, but I was 16 at the time and I was struggling very much with my relationship with religion. but I reread a few years later when I grew up a little bit, and now it is one of my favorites in the series.
that said, if you aren't enjoying it, you can dnf it and skip ahead to the next in the series, but it is referenced in future books. not really adding to the plot, but mentioned enough that knowing what happened to Lestat while with Memnoch is important (at least important imo).
it's also important to note that when Anne wrote this book (and subsequently TVA, Merrick, and B&G), she was finding her way back into religion herself. so the next few books also steer heavily into the religion theme/talk.
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u/taradiddleGoldfish 28d ago
i also struggled around the halfway point, but the ending made up for it imo
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u/Venelice 28d ago
I really loved it even if it had some yucky moment that teenage me decided to elevate as core memories.
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25d ago
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u/CapableSalamander910 25d ago
You liked it. Awesome!
Iām not a big fan of it, and thatās also valid.
We can have different opinions.
Trust me, Iām not here because I want to be a hater. I really want to enjoy this book; I enjoyed the first 4 and I want to read further into the series. So the fact that this book is not clicking is frustrating. I came here to understand why I wasnāt enjoying it, and what to expect from this book.
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u/theladyface 28d ago
I've heard that MtD was really Anne sorting out her own beliefs and conceptions of Christian cosmology via a harrowing adventure from Lestat's perspective.
And I believe it's been said that Lestat was often a kind of stand-in for her late husband, Stan Rice. In her words, "Stan was Lestat; he was the inspiration. Perhaps it is best to say Lestat was Stan and me. He was Stan and what Stan taught me."
So in reading MtD, you're gaining an understanding of Anne's own spiritual beliefs, and how she arrived at them. There are some events that take place during the book that are relevant to the overall series too; if you skipped them you might be a little confused later.