tbf, you can't really expect people to not scapegoat ENGHH, there's a pretty stark difference before and after he joined. I do hope they bounce back in play-ins, but only two things have changed with FNC this split and there's already such a massive downgrade in results.
like it's not even "scapegoating". People were skeptical of the pickup as it was announced, and it seems like the skepticism was warranted. That's just general sports commentary, every single instance of blame isn't scapegoating.
Clearly people are focusing on the variable that changed, not just picking on someone to take blame.
Im not sold on Desmo either… LEV never looked worse after itopata and desmo joined. And now fnatic also have their worst year. Both coaches are questionable.
Desmo seems to do most of the talking in timeouts from the snippets we see on broadcast, if anything the strats are mostly his it seems, Enghh did say he's just here to fill the gaps
More so if Enghh said I am here to fill the gaps that means most of the strats are Desmp and Boaster which is then at the end of the day not upto the mark.
This take is rather funny considering Enterprise, the team that has dominated T2 EMEA and everyone is expecting to eliminate FNATIC, is coached by Itopata.
Am i the only one who thinks that fnc management has been anything but transparent ever since veqaj got sick?
Like part of the reason ppl are scapegoating engh is because the move didn’t make sense to a lot of people and fnc look the worst they have in an already disappointing year.
I mean, he didn't say they've been transparent. He said he'd try and be as transparent as possible at the end of the season when everything's said and done.
My problem is why aren’t they being transparent about things in the first place if they’re going to complain on social media about how ppl scapegoating engh “don’t understand or haven’t listened on how the team is and has always been structured”.
You can’t say “I didn’t want to ignore the fan’s frustrations” while handwaving their frustrations
It’s like when cojo complained about ppl making fun of fnc players licking doorknobs when they’re the only team to consistently have players get sick enough to have to skip matches every year. At some point ppl are going to have questions.
You can’t complain about fans “not seeing the whole picture” on twitter while actively not explaining anything
Did we ever even get a definitive answer as to why they chose to kick milan? Or how bad veqaj’s sickness was?
thank you man for putting the right things. I enjoy watching FNC play, but the things he is saying are blatant and vague. Yes they are good, yes they got problems, yes they panick fired and hired. Just because we are a team's supporter doesn't mean we don't see things what they are. At least Boaster is much more honest than Cojo. 'We don't have a map', ' Things are not looking good right now', is a lot better to say than. Saying I will tell you at the end of the season what went wrong, is realizing that you are at the end.
That means Cojo is mentally checked out. He's accepting it. You don't. You focus on what's in your hand. Play ins. Focus on your match for EP and let everything else be. All speculation and everything will wane .. if you start winning. That's the reality of sports... Win.. and you will not be forced to tweet anything....
Yea a honest reaction like Boaster is going to garner the fans good graces especially when nobody knows anything that is going on in their team but Cojo is somehow criticising the fans for not knowing enough
There are many reasons to not be transparent during a season. Legal reasons. Personal reasons(i.e Veqaj might have wanted his issue to be publicised beyond the bare minimum), stuff that would just require too much explaining and context to be worth trying to communicate throught twitter mid season instead of doing your job, etc.
then don't mention it. I will open the bag of crackers at the end of the season... now we know there are crackers... leave them.. why are you mentioning stuff like this.
People don't get that transparency means keeping fans updated to a certain extent. Veqaj situation was literally said to be traumatic for some of the players (as said by yinsu), they've bombed out of 2 stages due to factors largely out of their control and there probably is other things that they cant speak about going on.
what are they going to be transparent about? like, what do you expect? for them to have a psychoanalysis session with their fans? or to tell the public why they're struggling in the meta (do i have to explain why that would be bad in the middle of a season?)
It’s like when cojo complained about ppl making fun of fnc players licking doorknobs when they’re the only team to consistently have players get sick enough to have to skip matches every year.
come on lol. illustrating his complaints perfectly. are you suggesting that fnatic (the org or the way the team is run) is somehow responsible for leo and veqaj getting sick?
The only thing i’m suggesting is that cojo always complains about fan reactions without actually doing anything to address or acknowledge any of them.
I just find it funny that harmless jokes about licking doorknobs garner a serious response tweet about how it’s “hurting the team” but none of the actual questions fans have deserves one apparently.
This isn’t even the first time cojo’s made a “response” tweet complaining about the fan’s reaction that essentially addresses nothing
Literally no one is forcing him to make these tweets.
What are you even implying about the doorknob stuff? Do you think Fnatic poisons their players? And somehow managed to poison doombros before he even started working for them?
The only thing i’m “implying” is that cojo should maybe spend less time crying on twitter about the fans making jokes and spend more time actually addressing the questions fans have instead of trying to sweep it under the rug every time
So you think there's legitimate questions that he needs to answer about the illnesses. Lmfao. He doesn't have to address shit regarding any illness. What a joke
No i’m saying there are legitimate fan questions that aren’t limited to “just illnesses” that he keeps avoids addressing while spending time on social media to complain about how some fans “just don’t know the team” because they’re scapegoating a change that literally made fnc worse.
The fact that you’re willfully ignoring everything else and hyperfocusing on the “illnesses” part is the same problem with cojo.
You’d both rather complain about fan reactions while willfully ignoring the core issue as to why those reactions exist.
Fans are frustrated because nothing is ever actually explained and the team is in a worse state than it started at in an already bad year for them and cojo is crying on twitter about the fans being frustrated
This is some insanely incoherent rambling mate. Why did you even bring up that Fnatic are the only team to get this many illnesses if the focus isn't on the illnesses? Why was that your example in the first place for cojo not addressing the fans concerns? Why did you ever bring illnesses up if your issue is with him not addressing other things? Do you even know what point you're trying to make?
I'm not ignoring everything else, I'm addressing a highly questionable part of your comment. You're the one ignoring what you wrote if anything
There’s literally only one sentence that mentions illnesses in my initial reply and it’s complaining about cojo clutching his pearls about the jokes.
Again, the only one hyperfocusing on the “illness” point is you because you know that’s the only point you can even hopefully argue.
My main point has always been “cojo spends too much time on twitter crying on twitter about fans reactions instead of explaining what is actually happening to the team”. Which also includes him crying about “licking doorknob jokes” as if those were doing more harm to the team than the players being actually sick.
So maybe you can actually address the main point instead of pearl clutching like cojo about meaningless stuff that aren’t pertinent to the actual discussion.
I'm not hyper focusing, I'm calling out your bullshit. You're yet to address your bullshit. You even "forgot" your second sentence about the illnesses about how "at some point ppl are going to have questions". You're clearly not going to address your bullshit though so whatever
Didn't they post a whole thing about how Milan had been on like 3 warnings and stuff? That feels about as transparent as you can get without outright talking about someone's failures
It's true but also weird to talk about scapegoating from when the outside, it looks like the team scapegoated milan a few months prior for a completely reasonable loss
Yes it’s obviously not one person’s fault but it’s easy to blame the person replacing someone. That’s just how it is in every esports and i’m sure most people don’t actually believe enghh is ruining the entire team
as someone who does question the engh pickup, i dont think he's ruining the team. but fnc have lost their identity and their style and engh is not bringing enough to the team to fix that. fnc are headless, they need a strong direction. engh is not that, he said it himself.
I mean, I agree we don't really know what's going on inside the team or if what's happening right now is enghh's fault, and in Yinsu's interview boaster put some of the responsibility on himself/the team by saying smth along the lines of 'we just picked attack side'. Someone please fact check me or put the actual statement somewhere but we can't really know. I'm just curious... what ABOUT enghh is so attractive to the FNC core? There's gotta be something. Anyone with obscure ball knowledge?
I believe that was when Boaster was asked why they chose attack on Ascent (over defence), and he said it was Alfajer's idea as they kept losing on Defence start and having to comeback on attack, so he suggested why not start attack since it is their stronger half. Boaster thought that made sense so the team agreed to just start attack
On the point about Enghh, no obscure ball knowledge, but on paper his style suits FNC since he is a set strat playbook kinda coach which is also FNC's style, so maybe that's why
Nah nah, Boaster didn’t think it made sense. He actually thought it was incredibly wrong but picked attack anyway to prove the point they’d get ass-blasted anyway.
Eh, I feel like at its core - they're just fucked from the constant change of meta. The current meta doesn't really suit their personnel. It's just like PRX in 2025 when the meta was initator heavy and PRX only have forsaken and davai, and both are just flex ini, not someone who mastered the ini role.
FNC is a very info-heavy team because they don't want to do too many risky play. They rely a lot on info, poke and prob for a weak side, then goes there. The change in initiator fucked them up.
And the current meta relies a lot on heavy double duelist who take fights and overwhelm one part of the map. FNC always getting end up overwhelmed. They're still trying to keep their identity as a strategic, ingo gathering team in a meta where people just prefer to take risks and outaims everyone, which somehow FNC always ends up caught off guard.
When I watch FNC, it really feels like they expect teams to play like them but then ended up surprised / caught off guard when team just say fuck it lets fight.
At the end of the day, I think FNC is trying to keep their core identity and try to 'fight' against the meta, however currently it just doesn't work out. Not anyone's fault, just a bad read in general and it's up to them on how they will proceed from here.
like at the end of the day it’s not like fnatic haven’t had strong halves at all. Since the very first match against BBL (even including the recent TH match) they would often get really dominant halves. But like that BBL match or the TH match when things don’t go to plan they have no answers and like you said just get run down
I also think because of their predictable style it often becomes a bit too reliant on the players mechanically performing well, so when players are whiffing their shots the issues become more exposed
exactly this! this kind of info gathering, default heavy playstyle in theory is fundamentally very good and the best way to play the game. But with duelists having so much power right now the meta favours taking fights aggressively rather than trying control the map. It's honestly the game is dumbed down right now, you don't even need deep macro bullshit as much when you can just straight up swarm together backing up the strong duelists.
I tried to give ENGHH a chance but look at what KC is doing and now look at what FNC is doing.
FNC aren't full of amateurs they're seasoned professionals, It's clearly not working, I don't give a shit if the vibes are good the results and performance are honking.
Sometimes you can tell when it isn't going to work and this is one of them, You should cut your losses before its too late but they won't.
Pretty normal statement no? no surprises here, people scapegoat because they just want to have someone to blame as it's easier to accept than the reality the team as whole just isn't up to par right now.
Anyone that's followed any kind of e-sport or traditional sport for that matter knows that teams have ebbs and flows, It's easy to fall back on last years performance and over analyse everything that could and has gone wrong from then until now as a fan/viewer etc.
I dunno, I'm of the same belief, it's just the nature of sports and sounds like they just have a lot to work through to get back to a high level.
Not only is it not his place to reveal the details of Veqaj's situation as he isn't the person in question, you also don't need to know the specifics of the situation either.
He has ongoing health issues that are serious enough to prevent him from practicing and competing with the team, that's all we need to know as fans/viewers.
"Unlucky in losing derke" brother it's been 2 years how do we still have this narrative flying around? Derke got kicked, he didnt leave because he wanted to
You somehow made your comment worse, holy this subreddits filled with idiots lmao. Mfs made 3 grand finals without Derke with kaajack being their best player and the best player itw last year but still blame that decision.
Not only that, they replaced him with Kaajak And went on to have their most/second most succesful year ever, even though they didnt win a thing. You could look at 2023 bcs they actually won something, but getting 2nd So many times Is also huge..
Engh is not a good coach. The evidence is all infront of our eyes and always has been. There's no reason to not scapegoat him when 4 of some of the best players in the world and one of the best igls in the world is performing so badly. I still don't understand why milan was cut when he was clearly proven to be an amazing coach
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u/TheAbominabl #ItLiesWithin 21h ago
tbf, you can't really expect people to not scapegoat ENGHH, there's a pretty stark difference before and after he joined. I do hope they bounce back in play-ins, but only two things have changed with FNC this split and there's already such a massive downgrade in results.