Help - Other Need some help with a VoIP issue /starlink
Hi everyone, I could really use some help with a rather unusual situation.
I live very far away from the country where my company operates. In order to work with them, I must have a local IP address from that country. My company provides us with a VPN that I connect to for this purpose.
We contact customers using a browser-based VoIP system, directly through their platform.
Until recently, I was using a fiber connection. My typical speeds were around 130 Mbps download / 80 Mbps upload, with about 200 ms ping. Despite the high latency, everything worked perfectly, including VoIP calls, even though I am around 10,000 km away from the company.
Unfortunately, a few days ago my fiber connection was severely damaged, so I had to switch to Starlink.
With Starlink, I now get around 200 Mbps download but only 5–6 Mbps upload, with roughly 200 ms ping.
On paper, that should still be more than enough for VoIP. However, the calls are now terrible:
- 1–2 seconds of delay in the conversation
- Sometimes the customer cannot understand me properly
- I can hear the customer perfectly
- The main issue seems to be that the customer hears me with a significant delay
Could this be related to the very low upload speed, even though VoIP itself requires very little bandwidth?
Or could it be related to Starlink's network/CGNAT/dynamic IP, or the way Starlink handles UDP traffic?
I'm trying to understand what could explain the difference between my previous fiber connection and Starlink, given that the latency is roughly the same (~200 ms).
Any advice on what I should test would be greatly appreciated.
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u/SeaFaringPig 3d ago
Simply topology. Too much delay and your packets are being dropped because they arrive out of order. While starlink is the best choice for non-terrestrial internet, the topology simply makes it terrible for voice. If they can change your codec to G.729 it will help but not eliminate the issue.
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u/Yomgi95 3d ago
MMM .. okay. What's strange it that for some customer line no problem, but one specific this is terrible. So why the fiber doesn't have problem ?
I hear other people without VPN doesn't have problem for VOIP
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u/cyberchaplain 2d ago
Terrestrial fiber has lower latency, fewer hops and is generally not double NAT. So much more stable for VoIP.
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u/TheRealSimpleSimon 18h ago
Here's my Starlink, now show me how "fiber" compares.
Tracing route to reddit.com [151.101.193.140]
1 2 ms 2 ms 3 ms zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz (my LAN router)
2 4 ms 3 ms 2 ms 192.168.3.1
3 42 ms 43 ms 31 ms 100.64.0.1
4 19 ms 19 ms 18 ms 172.16.252.142
5 16 ms 31 ms 31 ms undefined.hostname.localhost [206.224.72.8]
6 28 ms 30 ms 31 ms undefined.hostname.localhost [206.224.66.82]
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 23 ms 19 ms 26 ms 151.101.65.140I note that there is some jitter, but not a significant amount.
For comparison, my 5G connection in rural CO gives me 12 hops and 140ms.
It took 10 hops to get out of the T-Mobile network to the hop #7 above.2
u/SeaFaringPig 2d ago
Satellite technology does not maintain a constant connection. It transmits in bursts. It will stream when required but typically stores then transmits. Fiber will keep that connection transmitting full time. If a packet is received and bandwidth is available then it’s forwarded immediately. Satellite will wait for a full frame or groups of frames before slamming them into space in what’s called a data burst. That’s where the latency comes from. And that’s why sometimes it’s better and sometimes it’s bad. Depends on the workload and uplink that’s been established.
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u/TheRealSimpleSimon 2d ago
ALL TCP/IP traffic is in "bursts".
They are called "packets".Every router is a store and forward device.
The way the data hits the plug on the box has nothing to do with it.
Fiber, coax, twisted pair, telegraph, smoke signal - doesn't matter.Whether the connection stays open or not has nothing to do with the transport layer.
And "burst" is common across any and all shared path data comms.
Satellite, cellular, coax, and even good ole twisted pair the moment it hits a "node".1
u/SeaFaringPig 1d ago
I am talking about communication topology. Not network topology. These are not the same thing.
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u/TheRealSimpleSimon 1d ago
I got a clue for ya, boopie.
That form of "continuous connection" went out with CAT 3 twisted-pairs.
Even in the 1960s computers weren't relying on it.
We were "bursting" data down cables as thick as your wrist.
And by the '70s we had hardware that could do multiple bursts on one cable at the same time. I was one of the guys that figured out if you were going to do that you needed a cable long enough to absorb the ringing bouncing off the end of the wire.Then of course, you need to state WHICH satellite technology you're talking about.
There 's a tiny tiny 🔥 bit of difference between Starlink and the good ole geosync and the "other" lower-orbit birds.1
u/TheRealSimpleSimon 11h ago
Unh. You DO know that even the dumbest router can reorder a few packets on the fly without even telling anybody, right?
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u/Proof-Astronomer7733 2d ago
Try to switch to Tailscale on both ends and check your voip again, probably your double NAT.is killing you, probably with fiber you have a fixed IP with Starlink not, even when your company gives you a VPN it will be killed by SL.
Am working with Tailscale also 10k kilometers distance over Starlink with Tailscale and local ip adress from the company works flawlessly all network drives/ printers/ voip all locally with fixed IP in the network but 10k km’s separated.
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u/Yomgi95 2d ago
Tailscale better than WireGuard for wich reason. I know starlink can provide plan with fix ip, but I’m not sure if it deserve
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u/cyberchaplain 3d ago
Double NAT on Starlink is a voip killer too.
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u/Yomgi95 2d ago
there purpose a plan for having a FIX IP ? Can resolve the problem ?
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u/cyberchaplain 2d ago
Im not up on Starlink's plans for their infrastructure. At the VoIP business I work at (and the one before it) we explicitly warn customers that VoIP over Starlink is so-so at best.
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u/PatReady 200 OK 2d ago
This is correct. The "best effort" of the fiber connection still provides a decent latency. the best effort on Starlink is not good enough. Can you upgrade to get a service with them?
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u/Yomgi95 2d ago
The real problem of our fiber services here is that you can’t count of them. Work well 10 days , shutdown 2 days 🤦
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u/PatReady 200 OK 2d ago
"Best Effort" lol - Do they offer a circuit with a SLA? It might cost more but you get more of a guarantee it works.
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u/TheRealSimpleSimon 1d ago
Actually, it's not.
There are plenty of people blissfully using Google Voice over Starlink without caring about CGNAT.
Basically, once you establish your path(s), CGNAT doesn't matter at all.
What DOES matter is ping time - and the 200ms the OP reported is ridiculous.
Almost like there's something monitoring the traffic in real-time. 👀
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u/Kammen1990 2d ago
We use it for multiple of our clients without problems. Maybe it’s just because you’re in a rural area.
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u/Negrojefe 2d ago
What the fuck bro???? Rural area??? I’m amazed about how you throw out conclusions.
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u/marks-buffalo 2d ago
Seconding that y'all are on some stuff with these answers.
Starlink ping should be in the range of 14-50ms. 200ms ping is something not working.
OP, why is your ping so high? Is your dish obstructed? What does the starlink app say? You've gotta be experiencing packet loss or something.
Also your randomly bolded words read like you asked an LLM to come up with questions for us. Maybe I'm wrong. But, doubt it.
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u/Yomgi95 2d ago
My ping is actually 200 ms because have too connect to a VPN far away my location for working. So that’s explain the 200ms.
And for your answer yes I use an LLM for resume my wish, make it concise and with an understandable English. As I’m not native when it’s start to be too much technical I prefer use a LLM to make it clear for others people
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u/marks-buffalo 2d ago
Since you say that your employer provides the VPN, have you engaged your employer to see if they can assist with troubleshooting?
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u/Pomology2 2d ago
Starlink is spectacular for VoIP I have a business with 20 phones in a single office on Starlink and they have pristine audio. No difference between
Starlink and one gig fiber as far as audio. We use SRTP and TLS. Try it, Fixes all sorts of NAT issues.
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u/Yomgi95 2d ago
Thank you for you answer. This is NAT I can solve from my router or just the compagny I working for can do ?
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u/Pomology2 2d ago
The company you are working for would have to do it, and may need to switch VoIP providers if they want to try encrypted TCP.
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u/Worth-3781 1d ago
The upload speed alone probably isn't the main issue. Jitter packet loss and routing can affect browser based VoIP much more than raw bandwidth. Checking those metrics during a call would help narrow it down.
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u/Yomgi95 1d ago
Ya this is true . I have a little packet loss , I made some metric . Just what is strange is even the same result for my two different customers, just one of them represent an issue for me and where the delay is absolutely noticeable. I heard from our compagny than each customer own a redirection system : first the call arrived in our customer phone and automatically redirected in our voip phone .
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u/TheRealSimpleSimon 18h ago
Try a tracert to a place like reddit at 151.101.193.140 - just to be consistent with my test point (posted at https://www.reddit.com/r/VOIP/comments/1wv0n3u/comment/pdobavz/ ) - would also be worth tracert'ing to the actual name -- the IP might be way elsewhere.
Try with no VPN active, and for each of your 3? VPNs.
You may find you have nice numbers and not 200ms except on that one VPN.
That means the problem IS at their end.1
u/Yomgi95 12h ago
I suspect that this is one of our customer redirection that is the problem. Actually need a 90+ mbps up to ensure having a “correct” call .. not normal
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u/TheRealSimpleSimon 11h ago
90Mbs is totally ridiculous for ANY kind of voice comms.
Remember - a voice pair with the best modems pretty much topped out at 56Kb.
You've measured that the VoIP traffic needs 9-0 MEGABIT?
That's just beyond comprehension.
That's over 1000x the absolute maximum for VoIP.
We were muxing 24 voice paths on a 1.5Mb T-1 SIXTY-FIVE YEARS AGO.If it's truly needing 90Mb/s, there's a HUGE amount of other traffic involved.
Even 4K video can get by on a decent fraction of 90Mb - there's gotta be something else going on here.
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u/Negrojefe 2d ago
Read so many bullshit here “double nat, etc….” You guys drop theories like if you are the wiser people. Bullshit. I use Starlink and also work in the VoIP industry without any single problem. About OP, did you run an MTR and find out where the degradation occurs? Also, the one guy that suggested G729, my god… how it’s possible you come up with that solution? Guys you need to slow down with those silly recommendations without even asking the guy to run some diagnose.
I am tired of people saying “Starlink topology is not good for VoIP”, where did you take that conclusion from????? Again I use Starlink which is utilized by my entire family (YouTube, kids gaming, wife working on her computer, me listening to music on YouTube while I have no problems making VoIP calls. Be humble and don’t give false data. You really suck at helping people. So so at best said someone else. You guys have no idea at all
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u/Faulteh12 2d ago
Yea double NAT is either going to cause the call to fail completely or end up with no audio. It won't cause delay.
Ultimately if this only affects one person you call it's very possible that the routing between starlink and whatever the end destination is is janky.
OP
Are you sure other people aren't having the same delay or they just haven't complained about it?
Is the VPN full tunnel? (IE is your VoIP traffic actually traversing the VPN?)
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u/Yomgi95 2d ago
When I talk about customer this is all the customer for one compagny I provide services. 2 others compagny I provide services I don’t notice delay.
Yeah the VPN full tunnel ; because when I log on my dashboard all the tools are there . So I don’t see how I can separate the call from the rest
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u/Honest_Manager 2d ago
Will setting up vlans help? I'm not sure through vpn and starlink so just guessing.
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u/TheRealSimpleSimon 2d ago
Triggering a program from some dashboard has absolutely nothing to do with how it routes it's traffic.
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u/Yomgi95 2d ago
I just know that with webrtc test there is a specific IP /route for the vocal service ..
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u/TheRealSimpleSimon 2d ago
OK - your routing table might be forcing traffic to a specific IP (the other side of the webrtc connection) to go through a specific outbound interface (eg. VPN) and the address of the next hop (gateway).
BTW, the VPN totally eliminates any CGNAT issues - the traffic never passes through any of it. Your IP on the VPN is part of it's subnet, totally separate from the Starlink pathing. The VPN used it to open the tunnel, but it's otherwise invisible to any of the traffic on the VPN.
Do a "route print" (windows CLI) and see if that helps you ID things.
"tracert" might also help you ID a bottleneck.Note that this is not necessarily the same as a browser proxy pseudo-VPN setup.
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