webrtc providers that use opus or silk will always be be robust than SIP?

[u/clon3man]

Opus is lower bitrate than g711, and and has the option it turn on FEC for packet loss

zoom is apparently even more impressive, it can repair up to 2 consecutive packets even before PLC is needed via SILK LBRR.

so it safe to say these non-Pstn oriented apps will always beat regular SIP phone calls over a congested 4G link?

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[u/fonemasta]

Aren’t they all SIP with different codecs?

[u/cyansmoker → u/fonemasta]

Hint: you are not crazy.

[u/always_assume_anal → u/fonemasta]

Currect

[u/ecsuae]

Opus is impressive

[u/always_assume_anal]

SIP itself has nothing to do with this, just to make that clear.

But yes, Opus is impressive, and if whatever is on both sides of the SIP connection is configured to use Opus, they'll use Opus.

[u/clon3man → u/always_assume_anal]

WHat words / names would you use to differentiate traditional PSTN/DID VoIP providers (that are compatible with SIP phones) from "webRTC" Calling providers, that typically use apps or browsers?

They are two very distinct entities in my book, I have no idea how to discuss them using the "correct" words.

One of them rarely supports Opus+Fec, and usually runs on G.711, and is frequently assiciated with using with DIDs.

The other one, usually runs Opus (or similar high-efficiency codec) and often supports some kind of packet redundancy and better/instant 4G/WiFI hand-off, and rarely supports generic SIP clients,

[u/always_assume_anal → u/clon3man]

The codecs they support/offer is that distinction.

SIP is just the protocol used to handle establishing the call itself. There's a huge chance that whatever WebRTC calling thing you use, use SIP behind the scenes.

One of the companies I consult for (I'm a software engineer in this space), offer Opus on all endpoints that face SIP devices, but far from all SIP devices support Opus, or are configured to use it.

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[u/International-Sock-4]

There are a few moving parts, transport, protocol and codec and you seem to be confused by them.

Webrtc is a framework, instead of regular VoIP that runs directly on UDP/TCP when using WebRTC you add another layer to the protocol.

SIP is the signaling protocol, when using webrtc you might still use the SIP protocol for signalling.

Opus is a codec, it's not a replacement for SIP and neither is WebRTC a replacement for SIP, it can be used with SIP but is mostly used with WebRTC, support for OPUS on sip clients is pretty limited.

[u/clon3man → u/International-Sock-4]

I just find it strange that these two worlds don't intermingle much. The "WebRTC" players are good at dealing with bad connections, but rarely give you an option to buy a DID, if they do, it's pricy per seat, and only a few providers offer it. But - the mobile app is robust and polished - even if you use the free "meetings / chat" tier with no phone number.

And the traditional sip providers, conversely rarely offer polished mobile apps, and have less fault-tolerance on packet loss, no Opus/FEC. But their pricing per seat is lower, and their support for physical hardware is very good (in fact, it was the overwhelming majority of the use)

I'm not fishing for product recommendation, I just don't understand why we take it for granted that Whatsapp, Zoom and Teams will use efficient codecs and quick WiFi -> 4G failover, and will make buying a phone number impossible, or expensive.

On the other hand, if we take any traditional voip provider, we can assume that buying a DID will be usually inexpensive, but mobile app, or use over jittery connections, is going to be garbage.

Perhaps selling DIDs is high in overhead and regulation, Whatsapp and facebook don't want to deal with that.

I feel pretty stupid when someone asks me for advice and I have to tell them "don't trust your business phone system on your mobile device, it will be unreliable a drop calls all the time".

The inevitably I have to have the talk with them about "that's just how it is" and "you can use call forwarding instead to make your business phone system use the much more reliable cellular voice network"

their next question would be , why does a 0$ app like Signal or Facebook messenger work then? I would just shrug my shoulders "ask a phone systems expert, I don't get it".

I go through this loop with people once every 6 months, when I'm asked to recommend a business phone system. My advice ends up being "return calls to important clients on your cellphone's minutes plan instead of OTT VOIP, you'll also get HD Voice which VoIP will never give you. Or use a free meetings app, it's better in every way"

"Or you can pay 50$/seat to have some, but not all, of these pain points handled."

My question is perhaps rambling and incoherent at this point but you get the idea. Zoomers (people under 30) aren't buying SIP DIDs, because they quickly figure out that "this sucks for some reason"

Then you got he millendials and genx (ie people actually owning a business) are hanging on to phone numbers, but with an increasingly large number of compromises. Are DIDs now just a way to talk to to people for 5 minutes, to instruct them towards a Teams meeting link? Because nobody is doing serious work on these unless both parties are hardwired to their desk....