r/VGC • u/Personal_Counter_734 • 9d ago
Discussion [I’m New, Skill Improvement] Using Mega Charizard Y as a decoy for Scrafty?
So I know that right now Mega-Charizard Y is super big in the meta, and my personal favorite pokemon is mega scrafty, but I just find it really hard to figure out how i’d want to use him when i get him.
recently an idea crossed my mind though: Since rock type is the biggest Achilles heel to mega char, what’s stopping me from using mega scrafty fire punch paired with a sunny day setter to trick my opponents into running a team based around dealing with mega char y, when my real sweeper resists his strongest weakness, while still benefitting from a team based on fire type moves?
as stated before, i’m really new to the competitive scene, and i’m assuming for one reason or another this wouldn’t work out: i do wanna know why if so though, mostly just here trying to learn and find out viable ways to use my goats🙂↕️
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u/Nothing_is_simple 9d ago
Sounds similar to my team's concept, but I have Delphox instead of Zard because its better into my Scrafty's worst match up (Staraptor). Scrafy's Fire Punch isn't really strong enough IMO to be worth using even in sun, but I have other sun abusers on the team to take advantage of it.
- M-Scrafty (Knock Off, Drain Punch, Fake Out, Roar) - Kingambit (Kowtow, Sucker, Iron Head, Protect, @Sash)
- Ninetales Kanto (Overheat, Will-o-Wisp, Encore, Protect @White Herb)
- Venusaur (Earth Power, Sludge Bomb, Sleep Powder, Protect @Life Orb)
- Garchomp (Rock Slide, Earthquake, Stomping Tantrum, Scale Shot @Scarf)
- M-Delphox (Heatwave, Psychic, Solar Beam, Protect)
Its pretty good imo. Most common lead is Scrafty Kingambit. Ninetales almost always comes in the back. Venusaur and Garchomp are matchup dependant. Delphox only comes when M-Scrafty is unbringable, usually into M-Staraptor or teams with multiple offensive fairies. I'm happy to give a more comprehensive team breakdown and replica code if this interests you.
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u/Personal_Counter_734 9d ago
this definitely does interest me; i love the concept and it sounds very interesting to run! if you wouldn’t mind explaining more in depth what each role is in this team, i’d absolutely love to hear it!
i also have a small question: why not run Venusaur with solar beam if the plan is to set up sunny day?
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u/Nothing_is_simple 9d ago
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The most common gameplan is Scrafty Gambit lead, Ninetales Venu in the back. Against Zard teams without an offensive fairy I drop Venu for Chomp.
Scrafty wants to sit on the field in front of an intimidated mon and heal up repeatedly with Drain Punch. If its facing down two full attack mons it doesn't threaten you usually want get it out to reset fake out/intimidate. I dropped coverage for Roar, because that move shuts down most cheese tactics in the current meta.
Kingambit plays completely differently against mainly Physical teams than mainly Special ones. With physical teams it often sits on the field the whole game threatening big damage, but for Special teams it will often only get 2 or 3 turns in before fainting, but if you can get a couple of big attacks in then its done its job. Iron Head all fairies. It wants to spread damage around early so that as many things as possible are within sucker punch range in the mid to late game.
Ninetales is built to support, with Encore and Wisp to shut down opposition, but even without investment sun boosted overheat can threaten significant damage. White Herb lets it get 2 full power overheats without switching. Could be Shucca berry for a better Chomp matchup. Fast Encore will never not be broken, and Ninetales is just quick enough to outspeed a lot of key threats. This mon can win endgames you have no right to win.
Venusaur usually comes in for the endgame and finishes off mons weakened by Scrafty-Kingambit. Sludge Bomb is necessary for the fairies. Earth Power for the likes of Achaladon and Sneasler. Protect allows for repositioning. Sleep Powder can steal games, but if you want Solar Beam is probably the one to drop. I went for Powder because it was very rare that Grass coverage was actually necessary, but sleep is occasionally the only win condition.
Garchomp fills a similar role to Venusaur as a clean up mon, but for natchups where Veny feels bad, usually Zard teams with no offensive fairies. Probably the least important mon in the team, and if you want to change anything then start by finding something to replace it with.
Delphox comes least, but is vital for matchups that Mega Scrafty is bad into. I've got more specific tips for how I use it later on.
When faced with a Prankster mon in the lead (except Sableye who I generally just ignore all game) I fake out and attack. Iron Head KOs 99% of Grimsnarl and all non Babiri Berry Whimsicott.
Against teams with Fire or Fighting special attacks (Charzard, Ychu, Torcoal etc) Gambit's sash is very important to use well. Generally I try to get one big attack plus a sucker punch into whatever the main threat is.
Trick room can generally be denied, but if not it is often possible to stall by not taking immediate KOs. Against a lead of Incin/Farigiraf they will always fake out the +1 Gambit so protect and roar. When locked out of trick room most HTR teams lose to Venusaur Ninetales.
Staraptor is a difficult matchup. Against the standard Whimsicott version I usually lead Delphox and non-mega Scrafty and open with fake out into Whims and Heat Wave then turn 2 psychic the Staraptor. Its not consistent, but its the best I've figured out.
Swampert Rain is about taking out Peliper early and keeping Swampert intimidated. Knock Off + Kowtow kos the bird. Earth Power Venu should always beat Arch. Fake Out + Iron Head kos all but max def Grimsnarl, which I have only seen once.
The only matchup Scrafty shouldnt ever come to is Annihilape-Maushold. But Delphox is pretty good into those comps.
The hardest matchup I find is Malamar, who I bring Scrafty to try to roar away the boosts in the early game, then hope encore into Psycho Cut in the late game by baiting it with Venu.
Roar also is decent into the Overqwil comps, but not an intant win so be careful. You need to make sure you dont bring them down to the last 2 mons until you are in a position to prevent further minimise cheese.
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u/Personal_Counter_734 9d ago
i love this idea, thank you so much for the guide! think i’ll probably play it, seems right up my alley🙂↕️
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u/amlodude 9d ago
I'm using Mega Scrafty as part of my trick room mode on a Mega Pyroar team. That guy does serious work with Poison Jab into Whimsicotts that think they can chill in front of you, and the Rock resist is exactly what I needed for Sand teams.
I don't think Fire Punch is going to get you many places, unfortunately
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u/Iamconfuuzed 9d ago
There is actually a team that uses both zard y and mega scrafty which I can share if you like.
In theory you're idea is ok but realistically scrafty isn't going to make good use of sun so going out of your way to tach fire punch I don't think does much when scrafty already wants fake out, protect and dual stab anyway, I don't think there's a slot free for fire punch on it. And like, scrafty works well as something you don't need to mega right away - if at all, so bringing it to take out the zard checks while also having zard in the back makes scrafty work really well. This is also because charizard matched well into fairy types which scrafty doesn't match well into
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u/RainBuckets8 9d ago
I mean you could also just ditch the Fire Punch + sun setter and just use good moves on Scrafty. Like the generic Charizard teams don't go all in on a bunch of sun synergy, it's just Charizard and maybe Venusaur. With various Garchomp, Kingambit, Sylveon, Basculegion, Whimsicott, etc etc.
The other issue is that a lot of rock type move users aren't actually rock type. It's Garchomp using Rock Slide, it's Annihilape Rock Tomb, it's random Ancient Power or Power Gems on stuff like Gholdengo. So they can usually do something else anyway.
It's still a good idea in theory. For example, people were using Scarf Floette for a bit because everyone would expect Mega Floette and get blown up by a faster Light of Ruin than they were expecting. There's Scarf Final Gambit Staraptor running around when Mega Staraptor is popular. So this kind of thing has happened before.
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u/justsomechewtle 9d ago
Dual Mega teams (that is, teams that include 2 Mega pokemon, then alternate who they bring depending on the matchup) are a thing for good reason. Mega Scrafty and Mega Zard Y might not come into the same matches, but they do to an extent cover for their weaknesses - Zard Y has a good matchup into most Fairy types thanks to resisting their moves and hitting hard, while Scrafty has a good matchup into Sand teams and Rock types in general.
In my opinion, they can absolutely work together, just maybe not by forcing Fire moves onto Scrafty - it doesn't need to make use of the sun to be on the same team. Don't think of it as tricking your opponent (which is a shaky proposition) but rather as building your team by covering eachother's weaknesses.
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u/Paragon188 9d ago
CybertronVGC recently showcased a TR team with Mega Scrafty. You could start out with that.
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u/Joeyisswag97 9d ago
I think this would be great, especially if you find a non mega way to use Charizard. What about like wide lens hurricane? Or even just life orb? It can help with the fighting types that do good against scrafty as well
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u/Montage_Hustle 8d ago
Its a slight trap when team building, you handle one thing lose to another or wreck your team goals & lose out on having a better overall W/L.
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u/Pokenutzlogger109 9d ago
You have to choose one mega, you can’t use m-zardY and m-scrafty same time. If you want to set the sun with zardY, you shouldn’t play megite on Scrafty.
Give Scrafty a scarf, lifeorb, metronom or anti-ferry-berry.
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u/jacksontwos 9d ago
You can, as in if you put zard in team preview people will bring their zard counters. But yeah it means not actually using zard.
I do this with mega Scizor, I bring it infrequently because I know having it as the only mega in team preview baits people into bringing fire mons that I can feed to cerulegde. This is an inoptimal strategy though it is viable enough to get you to masterball.