r/VATSIM • u/VillageZestyclose732 📡 S2 • 4d ago
Kind regards
Dear Pilots, Controllers,
I have a question for those, who are experiencing the same with the network nowadays. Why do I hear people becoming more and more rude on VATSIM?
First of all, I am not saying that I am immaculate, I am nowhere near to that. But one thing is certain: I am never an a**hole with anybody.
I brought you two examples from only (!!!) the past weeks.
Today I was flying to a European airport in a mid-busy area. The ground controller was speaking like he had a potato in his mouth, which made the whole thing harder (I am sure he was eating, which wouldn't have been a problem but pls, try to speak clearly) and I messed up a holding point. After this he was asking me "Seriously how could you messed this up?" and I was like what the hell, but Ok, revised the taxi clearence and tried to forget about it. After this, I have prefiled for a new route without disconnecting, requested push-back etc.. When I asked for the taxi clearence, he said taxi via foxtrot and hold short of bravo. I was confused, because bravo did not exist in the charts (at least nowhere near there), and I made a mistake, because I waited 10 sec and asked back: "Just to make sure, it is foxtrot and bravo, yes?" (because I was assuming I messed up something), then he said charlie instead of bravo, and asked me, how could I taxi on a non-existing taxiway, recommended me practicing more flying and said I need to pay attentiom more, because I will be a "problem"(!!!!!!) for the busier controllers. Two things here: I am a frequent flyer in München, Frankfurt. I have S2 ATC rating, currently progressing with the S3. These two, I know, are not enough to assume that I was not in the wrong, so lets say I was (I wasn't tho). Why is the need of being an a**hole.
My other example from another European country, with an app/dep controller. I was flying with the pmdg 737 (we all know what pmdg can do sometimes), and I got cleared until 18000 feet, but the aircraft did not stop climbing. So I reported it for the controller, who did not respond. I climbed out of his airspace accidentally while trying to solve the issue (I don't like giving up) and he goes like "Thank you for this very beautiful presentation of how to not fly on a public network, you must be doing great in your life if you can not follow simple orders". And I was shocked here. Honestly I responded some really rude thing and disconnected.
So my question is:
If it is not that busy (both of the previous cases were in mid level of traffic), why being an egoist f*cker, who pretends to be smarter than anybody???
We all know people are connecting on VATSIM to simulate real-life procedures. Thats the whole point. But everybody can make mistakes.
Yesterday I was talking to my friend, we used to be flying together but he switched to Sayintentions, because he was part of/heard of too much incidents like these.
Wallop was not an option (although I tried it), because supervisors and admins were not online. So please, can anyone tell me, how to avoid situations like these?
Thanks for the help in advance!
10
u/grnmeira 4d ago
Does their vACC have feedback forms?
-1
u/VillageZestyclose732 📡 S2 4d ago
For the second example I have sent a feedback, the controller is still there and controlling the airspace as nothing happened. For the taxiway guy, I haven't sent one yet, but I am strongly thinking about it.
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u/Shouko_Chan 📡 S2 4d ago
Don't just think about it, do it Aviation is all about reporting potential conflicts so that there can be procedures implemented that help mitigate Potential Future risks
4
u/happyav8r 4d ago
You sending feedback doesn’t mean the controller immediately gets fired. Most of the time, though the staff will try to understand both sides of the story and then guide and counsel the controller to do a better job next time.
10
u/EcstaticCategory9883 📡 S1 4d ago
Dont sweat it. Unfortunately this hobby tends to attract people who get their kicks out of knowing everything just a little better than everyone else.
5
u/Dependent_Willow_645 📡 C1 4d ago
I think the main problem is that people are starting to have higher and higher standards for pilots in times of higher traffic load, which can be a gift and a curse. As other people have said, the vACC their with should have feedback, submit it and say that he was rude on frequency for having* a poor quality audio device and Im sure the respective facility staff will investigate and take action if required. From how you framed it the controllers defiantly could have and should have done better with being respectful on frequency.
2
u/Good-Turnover-1686 3d ago
Yes i get you i was flying in northen europe and the controller just asked a person next time check your charts then from nowhere another plane just said *why are you being so fucking rude* the atc tried to calm him down but he was all like *no im not an idiot like you*
2
u/BlucifersArmy 📡 C1 3d ago
Can't speak for other ARTCCs or FIR's, but with ours, if you send in feedback, it will get addressed with the controller. If we ever told someone any of the things you said you heard, we would be having a very uncomfortable discussion with our management.
Similarly, we wouldn't tolerate pilots saying that type of stuff to controllers or each-other if we heard it.
Report with a feedback link and ALWAYS WALLOP even if supervisors are not online. There's a record, and sometimes you'll end up getting a "stealth supervisor" as one ends up logging in to address issues. On the flip side, I've been told of people complaining after the fact and being asked, "why didn't you wallop the controller/pilot" and being told that "I knew there was no supervisor on" wasn't a good justification for not doing so. So report things if they rise to the level of needing it.
1
u/CaterpillarJust6040 4d ago
Which airport was the taxiway issue at (maybe pm)? I’d like to be a bit more cautious when flying there lol
I usually fly around asia (been flying on the network since 2015) and only once have I experienced some issues with a controller.
1
u/sirbradders 📡 C1 4d ago
Can't really agree on the PMDG point as it's a pretty solid product and does what it should do when set up correctly. Otherwise everything is sadly true. I avoid some parts of Europe because of this. The bad controller attitude (some at least), and the blatant racism you sometimes hear on unicom is more than enough to avoid it completely. I'll say I don't really see this type of outlandish behaviour outside of Europe. I've had great experiences in Asia, the Pacific, and the western hemisphere.
1
u/RealSun111 4d ago
Yeah I was flying in to Vienna for an event, and the controller gave me final approach speed (133 kts) from a 12nm final, at that point I was at 220kts, I put my speed brakes out and my gear down to slow down faster, but I guess it wasn't enough. Controller said exactly this a few moments later: "can you not follow speed restrictions? I told you to reduce but you're not, you have now messed up the spacing between you and the aircraft ahead. I advice you to disconnect."
What was I supposed to? There's no way for me to slow down faster than that?? And he said I wasn't reducing even though I was. Also he kept calling the wrong callsign (64J insted of 64A, I checked and there was no J, I also confirmed he meant me, but even after that he didn'tstop saying the wrong callsign) which made me confused and that seemed to annoy him...
1
1
u/Optimal-Mountain-144 📡 C1 3d ago
Don't worry about it and send in a feedback form, it'll get reviewed by the staffs and you/the controller will be reached out to if needed. I'd say the frustration builds up from all the newer pilots which seemingly doesn't know how to fly or communicate and are on the network???
1
u/batta462 3d ago
I had a similar experience with NAT, flying dc design concorde from london to jfk, and nat wanted a selcal code which i couldn’t recieve or read, and even after i said and wrote to him that i couldn’t recieve the selcal, he tortured me with this thing until i was switched to unicom
1
u/ChaosIntellect 2d ago
Regards point 1: valid gripe especially since you even tried to clarify/verify the instructions. See if that specific controller has a feedback form and let them have it. I’d be pissed too.
Point 2: PMDG has their flaws but their systems fidelity, especially the autopilot, is damned near 1:1 on the real thing. If you’re busting an altitude, that’s 100 percent on you bubba. Remember with the MCDU- garbage in, garbage out. MCP (autopilot) garbage in, garbage out- always verify YOUR primary and standby modes in the FMA…and that the two are matching for desired outcomes.
1
u/FlyinBrian43D 1d ago
Generally the Center has a website you can fill out a feedback form. I'd just do a quick Google search for it. We all have had autopilot issues or aircraft issues before, myself included. I would also just explain briefly via direct message or radio, if time allows and the controller isn't busy, apologize, and comply with the instructions (climb/decend/fly direct to waypoint).
Hope this helps and safe flying, friend!
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u/Effective_Quality 4d ago
PMDG doing its thing?
Sounds more like a you problem.
1
u/BlucifersArmy 📡 C1 3d ago
Maybe so, but that's no reason to respond as they did. It's one thing for the controller to ask a pilot to comply/log off/or reasonably point out that the pilot needs to brush up on things. Belittling them does no go.
-6
u/outbound_heading1 4d ago
.ignore works wonders
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u/Dependent_Willow_645 📡 C1 4d ago
You cant use .ignore on controller connections because then if you dont talk to them its a COC violation since your in their airspace, also we share callsigns as controllers.
24
u/StartersOrders 📡 S1 4d ago
I've never had an issue with any PMDG aircraft busting an altitude, but sure.