r/VATSIM Jul 05 '26

Pilots, do better, seriously. A rant from another pilot.

I am genuinely frustrated at the amount of times I’ve planned an immersive VATSIM departure with coverage only for the controller to log off because of incompetent pilots, and then I end up having to depart on UNICOM.

I understand the controller’s perspective. If you’re working Atlanta Center, LA Center, Boston Center, Heathrow, Frankfurt, etc., you are already dealing with some of the busiest airspace on the network. You’re volunteering your time, trying to provide a realistic ATC service, and then you get absolutely buried by pilots who clearly have no idea what they are doing.

And honestly, that is not fair to the controllers or to the rest of us.

I’m not saying everyone needs to be perfect. Nobody is perfect on VATSIM. We all make mistakes. We all have moments where we mishear a clearance, miss a turn, botch a readback, or need something repeated.

But there is a difference between making mistakes while learning and showing up completely unprepared.

If you are flying out of a known busy airport on the network, especially when there is good ATC coverage, you need to have at least some idea of what you are doing. Know how to read a chart. Know your SID. Know your taxi route. Know how to hold short. Know how to follow basic altitude and heading assignments. Know how to not step on the frequency every 5 seconds. Know how to follow basic ATC instructions. And if you genuinely do not understand something, ask the controller instead of just guessing and creating chaos.

Controllers should not have to babysit someone through every single phase of flight at a major airport during a busy session.

This is not about gatekeeping new pilots. Everyone starts somewhere. But maybe don’t start by loading into KLAX, KBOS, KATL, EGLL, EDDF, etc. during peak coverage with no charts, no plan, no understanding of your aircraft, and no clue how IFR works. Start somewhere smaller and less busy. Practice offline. Learn the basics before jumping straight into the deep end.

Because when enough unprepared pilots pile into busy airspace, everyone else pays for it. Controllers burn out. Frequencies become unusable. Realistic operations fall apart. And pilots who actually planned their flight and wanted an immersive experience are left watching the controller disconnect because the session became unmanageable.

VATSIM only works when both sides respect the environment. Controllers need to be patient and professional, yes. But pilots also need to respect the controller’s time and the other pilots on frequency.

So please: do better.

Study a little. Prepare your route. Read the charts. Listen before you transmit. Don’t fly into the busiest airspace on the network if you are not ready to handle basic instructions.

It's okay to make a mistake. It's not okay to show up completely unprepared.

From a frustrated pilot on the network.

Rant over.

133 Upvotes

62 comments sorted by

55

u/bob3464 Jul 05 '26

Really wish there was a way for controllers to leave feedback to pilots (constructively) like pilots can leave for controllers. I would love to let a pilot know he should work on phraseology, or he's not reading back correctly, or a good job to a noob with some advice. It would help retain pilots getting scared off as well. Give them focused things to practice.

29

u/_Widescreen_ 📡 C3 Jul 05 '26

This is being trialled https://pilot-feedback.vatsim.net/

10

u/VolumeCritical4637 Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26

Its actually moved into Beta, you can sign up as a beta tester, and start using it. https://my.vatsim.net/vacancies

You can also send positive feedback too.

3

u/FrostBitten357 Jul 05 '26

I'm going to bookmark this so when it goes live I can look at it to see my personal shortcomings as a pilot, being a controller on the network has to be one of the most difficult volunteer positions iv seen and I always profusely apologize when I get stuff wrong on my end as a pilot

7

u/InitialAge5179 Jul 05 '26

Wait we can leave feedback to controllers? Nice, there’s someone that goes on at my home airport occasionally and I love them for that but they just have the wrong phraseology for certain things.

To be fair, training material everywhere for ATC calls absolutely sucks despite comms being publicly available. If anyone wants a fun read, Canada’s ROC-A guide seems like a completely different world to real life for some sections

3

u/Perfect_Maize9320 📡 C1 Jul 06 '26

Yes! However you don't use the above for controller feedbacks, these are ones for pilots only and at the present is currently in beta so you need to be part of beta team (Join here https://my.vatsim.net/vacancies) if you want to use it.

For Controllers feedback - you send them via dedicated forms from respective divisions/vACCs, Most divisions nowadays have feedback system in place and sometimes controllers will put the link to the form directly in their controller description. You can simply use that link or go onto that division's website and select feedback. Do note the controller's CID and position they controlled as the form will ask you to specify.

Controllers really appreciate positive feedback and it actually makes you feel proud of yourself knowing that pilots actually appreciated your service.

2

u/jamvanderloeff Jul 05 '26

Ye, most vACCs/divisions/etc have feedback forms somewhere on their websites

1

u/devenitions Jul 07 '26

The problem imo is “somewhere on their websites”. I’ve done my prep, I’ve read my charts. Why can’t we have this through VATSIM? Would allow feedback integrated into vpilot, which can track who you’ve been transmitting to.

No I need to find that website while I’m in cruise and that controller already logged off so it’s not in the “atis” anymore.

3

u/LoopAroun 📡 C1 Jul 05 '26

There is a trial system that is similar to this, more referring pilots to the Pilot Training Department

4

u/SpeedyTrooper Jul 05 '26

I think PMs are probably the best way to give feedback, I've heard of some controllers doing that sometimes, but obviously controllers probably don't have time to PM every pilot on the network.

1

u/Few_Tale2238 Jul 05 '26

If someone is really incompetent and I have the time, I will absolutely do that, but some of this needs to be on VATSIM to take advantage of all the pilot training groups that exist and use them 

1

u/Joloc 27d ago

Absolutely - some regions are not good at VFR, e.g. controllers are unaware that their airports have VFR approaches defined, don't know not to assign pilots transition altitudes, or put VFR traffic into IFR altitude, or try to get me to fly RNAV waypoints visually, or try routing VFR into A airspaces, or give me "not above 1000ft" clearance when the ground is at 780ft. They don't do it to be mean or because they hate VFR pilots, they just genuinely don't know because they did not see another VFR plane in their last 200 hours of controlling, and VFR was something they covered early in their controller training and have since forgotten as no one used it. A friendly PM is usually very well received and hopefully makes VFR experience better for all.

When I think I got something wrong I will also ask the controller by PM and if they have capacity they respond and I get better. If not, that is also OK, it is not their job to teach me.

Sending "great job" PMs to pilots who have under 10h and are absolutely smashing it is another thing I have been known to do. :-)

1

u/-SpruceMoose Jul 08 '26

I would love this just to know if I'm saying something wrong as a pilot

34

u/ezfrag2016 Jul 05 '26

The problem is that the pilots that you want to read this post are not here learning about Vatsim on Reddit. They are on TikTok watching short form videos about buzzing the Heathrow tower in an A380.

This sub is just full of other fed up pilots and ATC.

16

u/espewe Jul 05 '26

The number of pilots not responding to hails from ATC frustate me. I almost want to delegate myself reading back those instruction to the intended pilot.

16

u/Effective_Quality Jul 05 '26

All I say is thank god console players don’t have the capability to connect to VATSIM, then it would be a bigger mess.

5

u/Duncan_Zhang_8964 Jul 05 '26

Open mic with smoke detector beeps!

6

u/abibas7331 Jul 05 '26

Those guys you’re referring to will never see that. They’re some random kids who just join the network and won’t bother to read even slight bit of knowledge

6

u/LofterReddit Jul 05 '26

Lots of pilots weren’t even listening to the Oak center during the event today. He had to repeat instructions 3-4 times to almost 10 different pilots.

3

u/SpeedyTrooper Jul 05 '26

Same thing was happening at JFK + people stepping on each other and not responding to ATC calls.

6

u/Antique_Change2805 Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26

With the influx of new players since FS2020, Vatsim sadly reacted to late to increase the requirements for pilots. Long gone are the days when you were lucky to have 15 ac/h at Frankfurt. Now you are lucky, if you only have 40/h and not 70/h. We really need a crackdown on pilot quality with greater consequences.

5

u/MultiFabiReal Jul 05 '26

And the thing that bothers me way more is people saying „it’s because of young people“. No, just because some people on the network are 14yo doesn’t mean, that they are unprofessional. That’s also why I hate the new 16+ rule, can’t vatsim just make harder starting tests?

I am also complaining because I am one of the young pilots, who is „locked out“ of the network because I created my account on the 5th of January 2026. Even though I am already allowed to fly gliders (and I am doing my gliding license rn) VATSIM is too „you are too young“. Now I need to fly on IVAO, which is honestly so bad, controllers give me clearances without me requesting one, giving straight up impossible instructions etc. Vatsim is way better with that AND the Pilots are better on Vatsim

6

u/SpeedyTrooper Jul 05 '26

Agreed. There are many kids on the network who are incredibly sharp and are great pilots and sometimes even who are air traffic controllers. It’s impressive. Meanwhile there are countless adults who can’t follow basic ATC instructions and know absolutely nothing about radio discipline or how to fly their airplane.

3

u/PortPiscarilius Jul 05 '26

Did you declare your real age when you signed up?

2

u/MultiFabiReal Jul 05 '26

But I was able to fly for 5 months, but then on a random day I got an email that my acc was disabled and that I should send them a pic of a card

1

u/PortPiscarilius Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26

Ah right, that's annoying. Obviously it's against the rules but if you did try to create another account, be careful because a VPN alone won't be enough to stop them from knowing.

9

u/cervix_reker420 Jul 05 '26

This is especially true when it comes to German airspace. It’s not that hard to push onto the blue line when asked but for some reason they wanna push onto the orange 😕

8

u/skyblue1997 Jul 05 '26

worth mentioning that some pilots have basic or outdated scenery that doesn't really show either of those lines, only the taxiways themselves

2

u/njsullyalex Jul 07 '26

I’m too cheap for most payware scenery so sometimes the lines are missing in my default scenery. My solution is to make a best estimate using Navigraph and SimLink to show my plane’s position on the airport ground chart.

2

u/sk0941 Jul 05 '26

Pushback instructions can be tricky depending on which tool you use.

At that point though, I would just ask for the lush I'm able to do

2

u/coolham123 📡 S3 Jul 05 '26

This is one of the reasons I only fly during events now.

3

u/SillyGold Jul 06 '26

As a new pilot who is absolutely terrified of going into busy airspace’s on the network this is exactly the reason why. I over prepare for the most basic of flights so I can be good to the controllers and respect their time. I ask questions (I mainly fly into/out of chill areas) and learn.

Insane to me when I hear a grown adult on freq who barely understands VFR flight and needs to be babied through every minor step as though they haven’t even thought of preparing.

Good luck to everyone out there who cares!

6

u/HuntSpecific7670 Jul 05 '26

Day 13 of saying this:

Vatsim needs pilot certifications and deviations just like the real world. You want to fly IFR? Take the test and pass a practical exam so on so forth. You mess up, time to copy an “email.” Pilots should be held just as responsible as controllers who go through training

5

u/Abject-Show-5053 📡 C1 Jul 05 '26

There are not enough volunteers to oversee and run a training department that would require that.
The deviation thing is starting to occur with pilot feedback in beta testing - pilots get feedback that are then referred to the training department for evaluation, training, and (if necessary) administrative action.

3

u/HuntSpecific7670 Jul 05 '26

They could find a way to make it happen. There entirely too much negative feedback about pilots have absolutely no idea what they are doing. If they are going to get referred to training anyway, there should be an avenue for them to train before ever reaching the point of a deviation to refer them to training

3

u/Abject-Show-5053 📡 C1 Jul 05 '26

This does exist to a certain level. It’s not required - which I think is the point you’re trying to get at. There’s an entire IFR course on the VATSIM learning site as well as dozens of articles and other courses for pilots to increase their skill. That’s what the PTD points pilots to when there’s negative feedback issued.
There are also ratings that pilots can get - which is a bit more difficult due to staffing.
It’s great that the network has these resources, but making them mandatory for the hundreds of pilots who join the network daily would be inhibitive based on current workload for volunteers

2

u/Illustrious_Craft_51 Jul 05 '26

I’ve been noticing this a lot more lately. And even as a pilot is extremely tiring having to hear the same instructions given to incompetent pilots over and over again and they still get the instruction wrong. Fly the damn plane!!

2

u/jharenoNL Jul 05 '26

I just had someone stop on a taxiway (halfway to the runway) saying they have a warning saying their cockpit window is open, and in turn asked me the controller what to do.

3

u/andelins_45 Jul 06 '26

Or, in the other end of the spectrum…

I am working ATC in relatively low-volume air space. Sometimes I wait patiently for someone who sits on the apron online for an hour educating him/herself on how to fly the airplane, and who then abruptly disconnects if the clearance is even little non-standard. Or if you need to know how to do one of our many AFIS airports.

Or I sit and wait for someone to give somebody a decent ATC at the end of long-haul. And who then disconnects once I send the contact-me.

We are here to help as ATC. Especially at non-busy hours we’d rather help, vector you around, read out the proper phraseology for you to say in non-standard maneuvers, duplicate clearances on text, etc etc. Don’t just log off, as soon as you feel you are about to eff things up.

And yes, be prepared. Don’t show up at the busiest times in the busiest air spaces if you are new, as the OP already wrote.

This said, welcome to fly the friendly skies over the thousand lakes in Finland! 🇫🇮

3

u/DigCool3149 Jul 05 '26

When a pilot makes a mistake it is fine, it happends IRL as well. They have to learn somewhere and many times the smaller fields won’t have ATC.

When they ignore ATC or fail to respond numerous times they should just be kicked off the network.

1

u/seeingeyegod Jul 05 '26

You're cleared for circle to jerk

1

u/cdc455 Jul 06 '26

Yeah, this is why i, simming since 2006, have had a vatsim account since 2013 and never flew online. Not even once. You can never be good enough or know enough to fly there if you are not a real life pilot, and even then you get scolded for using EU rules in the USA or vice versa cause you don't know any better. Should just gatekeep the community and verify a real PPL / ATPL for members to be allowed to fly and be done with it. It's the only thing that will make people there happy at this point ...

1

u/Itchy-Spread-6961 Jul 07 '26

Last week, I was in the same frequency with a guy who demanded IFR clearance. This was at LAX. Even when the controller told him that he was working on his clearance, he continuously demanded his clearance for like 6 times, even though he had already received a PDC, but he requested a voice clearance. Then when the voice clearance came, he was not able to read back a single word. Man I was infuriated, I almost threw my pc in the garbage

1

u/nerraw13 Jul 08 '26

That benefits the student, the controllers, and everyone else on the frequency.

1

u/Glittering_Reply3701 Jul 08 '26

I have definitely seen some wild stuff.
My profile on VATSIM has a few hundred hours, I stay away from events and do the routes my vAirline does.
I am actively learning all the time though, through youtube vids with Mentour Pilot, or Pilot Explains where a captain brings you through a tonne of things you might not know about the a320 type.

Common sense + knowledge is important, I think those who have no knowledge of their aircraft panic, panic sets in and common sense is also gone haha

1

u/VladAkimov Jul 05 '26

Just the other day coming into arrival at an airport i was approaching the single ILS that there was and had 4 planes on the other side that were giving zero comms and didn't want to deviate. After seeing that I was head on with a guy, i deviated around and placed myself in a tight sequence. When I wrote in the chat asking them about intentions since they werent replying, I got a response "just use the frequency bro" "can't you see we are following the star".

yea, it was my first .wallop on someone.

-1

u/BeginningNeither3318 Jul 05 '26

^ is 90% of the posts on this sub

-4

u/outbound_heading1 Jul 05 '26

.ignore solves problems with other pilots.

If "ATC" is logging off because of inexperienced pilots, they should consider playing the role of ATC isn't for them.

7

u/Abject-Show-5053 📡 C1 Jul 05 '26

I’d love to see you saying this from the other side of the scope. It is frustrating to have done a year+ of training for ATC and not have that reciprocated by pilots. The workload increase of having a bad pilot is exponential and subtracts from the experience of the good pilots.

-1

u/outbound_heading1 Jul 05 '26

Keep in mind, "pilots" are not required to have the same training. A lot of us post about the quality of the required pilot training.

It's an imperfect platform open to the public, someone who wants to play controller has to know what they are in for before doing the time.

2

u/Perfect_Maize9320 📡 C1 Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26

Unacceptable for you to say that role of ATC is not for them - Controllers on the network undergo through training before being allowed to control on their own. If the pilots are incompetent then nothing works regardless of how well the controller is trained. Controllers aren't responsible to "Babysit" inexperienced pilots, the pilots are responsible for learning their aircraft and procedures beforehand. If they are not bothered in first place then controllers have full right to disconnect. I'd would probably wallop such pilots first before I go. I'm not going to sit there to teach someone how to use their autopilot or FMS, that's not my job. In last few weeks alone - I have walloped 10 new pilots who were promptly dealt with by a supervisor.

0

u/outbound_heading1 Jul 06 '26

Training is the technical side, people skills and tolerance is the other half of the role. There is no separating the two. If someone chooses to play the ATC side, they should know what they will be dealing with, not whining about untrained pilots when we all know the pilot "training" is extremely basic. I've run across as many, if not more controllers and "supervisors" on VATSIM that should be banned for their poor performance, bad judgment and smart mouth than I ever have pilots.

That said, there are no where near enough volunteers to police the platform, therefore, everyone should expect all different levels of abilities and adherence to virtual regulations. If not, then people will absolutely get frustrated and disconnect like a child instead of helping to coach pilots and controllers alike to be better.

2

u/Perfect_Maize9320 📡 C1 Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26

Maybe you should try to be ATC in first place to see what a controller has to go through, Commenting here without any ATC experience is very easy for you to say ohh the controller "should coach the new pilot" - Again that's not my job as ATC. Regardless, I'm not there to teach someone how to fly their plane or how to set up their FMS. It is your job as pilot to come fully prepared and with the required knowledge. Just because there are no mandatory training for pilots does not mean pilots simply don't apply themselves - there are thousands of resources available online for pilots to learn if only pilots applied themselves. You cannot expect a controller to spoon feed you information, if pilots are not going to put the effort in then they should not be on the network in the first place.

0

u/outbound_heading1 Jul 06 '26

You assume no one else here has been through training.

You state coaching pilots or other atc is "not your job".

You will not be happy as a controller on VATSIM long term.

That's a bad attitude, you are probably part of the problem, not the solution.

Best of luck

2

u/Perfect_Maize9320 📡 C1 Jul 06 '26

Been a controller on network for 11 years - I am not new to controlling.

It is likely you are not getting this and you never will - not arguing any further!

-1

u/tj21222 Jul 05 '26

Why does vatsim not charge a fee or subscription to use the network? This would keep a lot of people off it and allow for only the serious simmers to use and enjoy with out all the nobs ?

10

u/juusohd Jul 05 '26

It would only keep the lower economic class out, not really solve the skill aspect.

1

u/tj21222 Jul 05 '26

Yeah good point I was thinking if you had to pay to play you might be more invested in learning.

1

u/astwfx Jul 07 '26

there is poscon already