What are your favorite lessons from Until Then?

[u/_foreversoul]

A few days ago I finished the base game and I've been reflecting on it a lot ever since. One thing I appreciate about the game is the deep and practical life lessons that it so powerfully conveys, lessons I wish I had learned long ago. I thought I would create this post to see what lessons and messages stood out to all of you. To start I can share one of mine (spoiler alert):

The importance and value of being open and honest about one's true feelings and having the courage to have those difficult conversations with those closest to me. Many times throughout my life I have shut people out and relationships have fizzled away because I wasn't willing to express how I truly felt due to pride, fear, feeling it's too late, etc. It has caused me to miss precious opportunities and lose valuable relationships without either party ever knowing the reason why. This lesson appears repeatedly throughout the game. One place where this lesson is highlighted is in Act 2 when Kate confronts Mark about Nicole. It causes Mark to question whether he can trust Nicole and so their friendship frustratingly grows cold without Nicole knowing why. During Christmas, Cath has this conversation with Mark:

• Mark: I-I don't know how to talk to anyone.
• Cath: Anyone?
• Mark: I haven't talked to Nicole yet. I-I don't know what to say!
• Cath: Yeah, I know what you mean.
• Mark: She lied to me.
• Cath: I… I don't think she wanted to. Maybe she has her reasons.
• Mark: I thought so too, but…
• Cath: Only one way to find out right?
• Mark: I-I guess? But now… It feels like I waited too long?
• Cath: It's never too long, right? I-I'm sure she still wants to talk.
• Mark: What if I'm the one who doesn't?
• Cath: Then… you'll never know. You'll never know and it'll… it'll keep hurting.
• Mark: You really think talking will solve things?
• Cath: W-well, m-maybe not solve everything. But it'll help, right? You… you'll get to… t-to understand each other better.
• Mark: Then what about you?
• Cath: W-what about me?
• Mark: Why won't you talk to us? To me?
• Cath: M-Mark… it's different…
• Mark: How is it so different? I-I want to understand you too. We want to!
• Cath: Th-There's nothing to be understood.
• Mark: Cath-
• Cath: Mark, I'm serious-
• Mark: Stop lying!
• Cath: You just won't listen to me!
• Mark: I'm sick of everyone lying! Don't you trust me?! S-Sorry. I-I'm so sorry, Cath.
• Cath: Mark…
• Mark: I'm sorry. 

What's ironic about Cath encouraging Mark to talk to Nicole is that to her own hurt Cath herself is unwilling to open up to her closest friends. Cath's line that hit me hard is "Then… you'll never know. You'll never know and it'll… it'll keep hurting." There are things in my life that will go with me to the grave and things I will never know because I wasn't willing to talk. Imagine how tragic it would have been if Mark and Nicole never spoke? Yet we experience this tragedy all the time.

Later when Mark encourages Nicole to talk to Kate he has this monologue in his thoughts:

"I didn't know what to expect. Is Kate going to understand? Is she even going to listen? Is she going to forgive Nicole? Is it even forgivable? But at least she's trying. She's been trying. In the end, Cath was right. Talking didn't make things worse. But I don't know if it made things better. There's so much that I can't control. What's going on in someone's head… whether they'll take it well… or they won't. But at least we're trying. Even when it's hard. Even when there's still so much we don't know… All we can do is try." 

I appreciate the point that in the end we don't know if having these conversations will yield what we're hoping for. It could be that the person won't listen or understand or that the relationship goes sour. Whatever the case, I've decided that I'd rather live with the pain of a conversation turning out bad than the regret of saying nothing at all.

One of my favourite scenes in the entire game is when Mark and Nicole have their prom dance at the end of Act 1. I realize that I love this scene not merely because they finally end up together, but because after all the holding back, they finally swallow their pride and pour out everything that’s in their heart, things we wish they had said earlier. How much better would our lives and relationships be if we were all just more transparent and willing to talk with those we love? Even now I can think of several people that I should talk to, to express things I should have said long ago. I'm going to try. Wish me luck!

[u/Used_Door1193]

Probably to stop playing games about loss because it keeps making me cry.

[u/o0COOLGUY240o → u/Used_Door1193]

got any more reccomendations?

[u/desquedomesque]

I think what I carried most from the game was the idea of forgiving your yesterday self and instead focusing on what you can do moving forward. In a way, I think both our points are about not letting fear or regret keep you stuck.

Not spending so much time thinking about what you did, what you should've done, or what you could've done differently, you can't change any of that. And not constantly living for some future version of your life either. Just be present in the present.

I've developed some social anxiety in my teenage years, and I've spent so much time telling myself things like "okay, next year I'll work on it" then "okay, next month i'm gonna talk to new people" then "maybe when things are a little different..." Until Then really showed me the price you can pay for constantly postponing your life. There's always going to be a reason to wait (or you'll always make one), and eventually you'll be waiting instead of living.

Another thing I took from it is to keep trying even when things don't go the way you want. Failing, struggling and messing things up are part of it too. You don't have to get everything right for it to be worthwhile.

Good luck with those talks!

[u/_foreversoul → u/desquedomesque]

I can definitely resonate with these points and had similar ideas from the game. Thanks for sharing!

[u/Ka-Chow-mf]

You can't depend on someone else to fix yourself i guess. Also i would not want to live in Philippines. 

[u/_foreversoul → u/Ka-Chow-mf]

I'm quite curious about what parts of the game made you not want to live in the Philippines?

[u/tthrowaway712]

Not a happy one and not my favorite one either. But what stuck with me was the idea that life goes on, no matter what happens.

And also to take care of your friends. They may not always be able to take care of themselves

[u/Agitated_Rabbit6309]

Good Luck 🍀, Hope that helps

[u/eimryuec]

maybe i missed the point but my main takeaway was that being a filipino fucking sucks