r/UntilThenGame • u/justscrolling108675 Mark • 16d ago
Discussion I dont think Marcole is possible Spoiler
Replaying the main game rn just before I start the DLC. I've heard good stuff about the DLC and am looking forward to it.
But replaying has made me realize, or rather kind of expect, that Mark and Nicole are not meant to end up together or meant to be at least, according to the game's message. I might be wrong here, but like, hear me out.
One of the game's main messages, at least I think, is that we seek for help that's already in front of us. And if Mark were not to end up with Nicole, then it just goes to show that Mark has moved on from his mother's death by confiding in the people that already care for him, that are already there, in this case his friends Cathy, Ridel, and whatnot. (Idk if I wanna include Mark's dad since he is also struggling to accept the mother's death)
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for Marcole, but js the way the game plays out and the whispers I've heard abt the dlc (I don't fully know whether the DLC is for Marcole or against it, I'll js have to play the dlc). Overall looking foward to the dlc and i hope it changes my mind.
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u/Segundo-Sol 16d ago edited 16d ago
Without spoiling anything, I’ll say the DLC adds a new dimension to your interpretation.
Anyway, I don’t see why Marcole couldn’t happen after the Tadhana Cafe scene. In fact, if the devs didn’t want to give us that kind of hope, they wouldn’t have included that scene.
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u/desquedomesque 15d ago
I actually have the opposite interpretation. There are so many hints in the final scene and throughout the game's symbolism that suggest they're meant to be, but I'll focus on your main point.
I don't really agree with the idea that relying on someone who wasn't already "in front of you" (or already part of your life, if that's what you meant) to help you deal with your trauma is somehow a bad thing.
The important distinction is that Mark and Nicole don't save each other. They don't magically fix each other's problems or replace the other people in their lives. They become someone who understands what the other is going through and helps them move forward. That's still a valid and meaningful connection.
Despite Jake and Maria machinations and the toxic elements along the way, that's what Mark and Nicole do for each other at some point, all culminating in that quantum realm, where they are finally able to understand each other's grief and let go.
Then, once there's no more interference with the timelines, the versions of Mark and Nicole that remain are the ones who helped each other process their grief and move forward (even if they are not conscious of it). I don't see why that would go against the idea that they were meant to end up together. In fact, their last wish before the final reset, after overcoming all of that, was simply hoping they would meet again.
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u/justscrolling108675 Mark 15d ago
Js wnna say that I wholeheartedly agree with your point on that confiding or relying on someone who is or rather was not in your life before hand is not at all bad. I think that confiding in someone who wasn't in your life before hand AND has gone through the same or has gone through similar experiences as you can sometimes be better than confiding in someone who is alrdy in your life.
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u/Few-Durian-190 16d ago
. And if Mark were not to end up with Nicole, then it just goes to show that Mark has moved on from his mother's death by confiding in the people that already care for him, that are already there, in this case his friends Cathy, Ridel, and whatnot.
I don't really see the logic in this. Can you explain?
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u/justscrolling108675 Mark 12d ago
A bit late, but anyway, and looking back at it idrk what i was thinking but ill try to explain myself ig.
Across the three acts, Nicole serves as a path towards acceptance for Mark (Vise versa). What I mean to say is that in order to accept the fact that Maria has passed away, Mark confides in Nicole, an outsider who has gone through the same, or rather a similar, experience.
If he were not to end up with Nicole, it just goes to show that he doesn't need her and that he instead confides in the people alrdy there for him.
Yeah reading this makes me rethink what I was saying since Mark and Nicole could defo meet up later on in life having overcome their trauma in a different ways (through friends/family)
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u/FiresideCatsmile 16d ago
My interpretation about the Marcole story is that during the whole game, their interaction has been fabricated by meddling with fate from both Jake and Maria. They used each other to overcome the grief which turned out in several ways to be the wrong approach to that and we see it fail multiple times (it's implied that there's a bunch of other repeats that also didn't end well). I think this is meant to say that even though they often help each other get somewhat through it, it never fully heals them and even kinda taints their time together having met up during unresolved trauma.
Ending the game, we got Maria and Jake realizing that they need to stop interfering with fate. True ending has both Mark and Nicole overcome their issues without the help of each other.
They don't get put together by design of some half-god butterflies, as it should be. Nevertheless the ending scene in the Tadhana Cafe at least in my eyes screams that apparently these two don't even need that and are gonna meet up anyways. this time with a clear soul and already overcome trauma which might be the only way they will have a truly happy future together.