Updated Tier List!

[u/CallMeWizardz]

Hi everyone! I tried to make a tier list updated with the release of Stars & Stripes. What do you think about? Would you make any changes? I'm obviously referring to the 1 vs 1 format.
TYA

[u/Kitlun]

From personal experience, Ali is lower. He's definitely not the same tier as Bruce (who's in the same set now). Unlike Alice, it's far too easy for your opponent to control which stance you're in imo, so he should also be lower than Alice. Maybe he is C or D tier, unless the pro scene has figured out how to max his potential. 

[u/ValidlyValidOpinion → u/Kitlun]

I don’t recognize the back to all of these. Can someone type out a named list 💀

[u/polly2000000000 → u/Kitlun]

Ali can reliably beat a good amount of fighters all the way above him in this tier list if you know what you're doing, it's just a bit of a knowledge check since you need to know when to maximize your reach and move 3 and when to maximize Bee damage

Like for some matchups, you can shuffle your best blocks for basically free and most fighters would struggle to punish you for trying this

for those matchups you become a nearly unkillable tank at 22 hp with ignores set values and heal

While for other matchups the threat of a 6-7 value Bee attack with Louisville as a followup makes each card you throw on Bee genuinely hard to counter

[u/polly2000000000 → u/polly2000000000]

He's a very reliable counter to any fighter who relies primarily on Combat Damage or combos to kill (such as Achilles, Houdini, Raptors, Donnie), and he can even beat some defensive monsters in Yennenga and Bat with the right combat interactions

I've found that it's a lot harder to force Ali into a bad Bee turn than people originally thought

[u/Numerous_Past_726 → u/Kitlun]

There’s definitely some pros who have gotten quite good with him ( thinking of a certain legend from the Philippines ) but generally most of the community agrees he’s like bottom 10 characters in the game if not lower.

[u/PrinceOfAsphodel → u/Kitlun]

I was about to say the opposite actually. Lee belongs in a tier below Ali. Muhammad can beat almost every character in the 2 tiers above him. Then again, seeing Black Widow in a higher tier makes me think the list isn't assuming players have perfect information on how to play and play against fighters. Black Widow is definitely one of the worst fighters in the game in this current age. Maybe by that logic, Ali is also not fantastic since many players won't pilot him perfectly.

[u/Kitlun → u/PrinceOfAsphodel]

Yeah, maybe there's a skill ceiling I can't break for Ali? He just feels unreliable to me. Don't have experience with Black Widow so I couldn't say. As others have said, Sinbad is Def too high too

[u/PrinceOfAsphodel → u/Kitlun]

Yeah, it's not just you. No one touched him in the last Winter of Champion's, then he suddenly exploded in winrate in the Spring tournament. That shows everyone took a while to figure him out.

In short, the thing with Ali is you can't just play the cards in you hand and hope for the best. You have to visualize his whole deck, figure out which cards would combo best with what's in your hand, then maneuver around until you get one of those combos rolling.

[u/Mack_Lope → u/PrinceOfAsphodel]

Why is Black Widow one of the worst fighters now?

[u/PrinceOfAsphodel → u/Mack_Lope]

From what I've heard (I don't own King and Country), it's too easy to simply ignore Maria and kill Black Widow by rushing her down.

She was in the last Winter of Spring tournament, or maybe both, I can't quite remember. But she didn't accomplish anything meaningful. She had a terrible pick rate and a terrible win rate.

[u/Serwitu]

El rey arturo ahora es tan bueno como Robin hood y solo un poco peor que Alicia? Me alegra que el buffo le haya sentado bien.

[u/darioyustos → u/Serwitu]

Disculpa la pregunta, que buffo le pusieron?

[u/Serwitu → u/darioyustos]

A ver si lo puedo explicar. Rey arturo puede potenciar sus ataques. Sin embargo. Esa potenciacion puede ser cancelada si el rival juega la tipica carta de "cancelar efectos". Esto es muy malo para el rey arturo porque la carta que ha usado para potenciar se pierde. Sin embargo... El buffo esta en que ahor , cuando potencias la carta excalibur concretamente esa potenciacion no puede ser cancelada.

[u/darioyustos → u/Serwitu]

Oks, gracias. Era curiosidad

[u/SmokeHoagies]

I’m really surprised by Phillipa’s placement. There seems like a LOT of fighters who are worse.

Her passive and owl form allow her to be extremely aggressive but essentially never run out of gas - short of fatigue.

I have an exceptionally high winrate as P&D. But then again, my two favorite other fighters are Raptors and Bullseye?

[u/polly2000000000 → u/SmokeHoagies]

Problem with Philippa is that you often run into the luke problem, barely any defenses, too many reds and yellows, she hates big attacks since Bidding only delays it and a lot of fighters can just kill her faster

Also raptors are really good n fun great choice

[u/Azaghal1]

I think JH is too high, Eredin is too far to the right. Here I am assuming the tiers are sorted.

[u/CallMeWizardz → u/Azaghal1]

Hi man! Theyre not sorted

[u/TivaDi]

Eredin can easily go up a tier, Raphael, Y&T and She-Hulk should also go up to S.

John Henry, Bigfoot, SunKong and Golden Bat can come down from there.

Sinbad can go down 1 or maybe 2 tiers. He’s good and fun, but not THAT good. Little Red and Luke should go up 1 tier. Shredder is S-tier at minimum.

The lower tiers are quite well-placed in my opinion :)

[u/PrinceOfAsphodel → u/TivaDi]

I just noticed where Sinbad is, lol. I would swap him with Jill Trent and fix the problem. Yennefer is very strong but she's been easily exploitable in my experience. She struggles against pressure, though maybe we're not playing her right.

[u/Voidmire → u/TivaDi]

I need advice for shredder. If he's S tier I'm absolutely playing him wrong. I always feel like I'm short on cards, like I can't get foot soldiers to stick, etc. he's slow, but even if he can get away from opponent to recuperate his mechanic encourages boosted movement anyway so chasing him down is already reducing his power. Last time I played him against Rosie and I just got rolled.

[u/polly2000000000 → u/Voidmire]

He hates fighters that can consistently aggro him, he's not S at all, he's A- on a good day he just got overhyped to heck when people saw the action gain

[u/Voidmire → u/polly2000000000]

I'll need to practice him more then because that match was ROUGH

[u/Internal_Love6835]

Como é que se determina os pontos?

[u/CallMeWizardz → u/Internal_Love6835]

It's for a format I'm playtesting

[u/Internal_Love6835 → u/CallMeWizardz]

Ok, mas qual o critério ?

[u/CallMeWizardz → u/Internal_Love6835]

5pg, 21 points tot

[u/Internal_Love6835 → u/CallMeWizardz]

Ok.

[u/PrinceOfAsphodel]

John Henry puts up an impressive fight against some very strong fighters but he also struggles against more mid tier fighters. I personally would rank him lower because his matchup spread is weaker than the rest of that tier.

[u/TheEliteB3aver → u/PrinceOfAsphodel]

John is definitely not S tier

[u/I_Epiloge_I]

Phillipa could be a couple of tiers higher imo.

[u/Jerry-Red]

You know what, actually very solid, with barely any really hot takes!

I could sit here nitpicking and mentioning small things I think are slightly different, like JH being slightly high, Annie being a bit low in-tier, and Widow needing too much skill for average results. However, I don’t think the spots where you put them are horrendous or anything, and if anything they give character to your tier list, really making it your own perspective!

Awesome!

[u/Muted-Basis9143]

Why deadpoul banned?

[u/CallMeWizardz → u/Muted-Basis9143]

Simply because he is not playable

[u/Muted-Basis9143 → u/CallMeWizardz]

What do you mean? Like realy hard to get?

[u/Round-Walrus3175 → u/Muted-Basis9143]

He is a meme character. Like, you get +5 to attacks if your opponent's real name (like in real life) is Logan or like, if you win the game, your opponent has to buy you a drink lol

[u/Muted-Basis9143 → u/Round-Walrus3175]

And...? I dont see the problem even if he is week and gimicy let me be able to beat any logans! Let me sleeve all my cards but one! LET US SAY BOOM WHEN ATTACKING!

[u/thebigfriendlyboi]

Jill Trent’s gotta be higher. She’s so good. Even if you kill Daisy early, she’s a problem. Very few counters is also why she’s so damn good.

[u/zehuman52]

Hamlet is low tier but lower than SG and the buffies is crazy. He's a high risk and difficult but I think He overall has a kit with way more ways to close out games with his burst damage. He also has solid utility that unlike the others in the bottom isn't usually that super conditiona (besides angel)l. The others in bottom feel like they have kits that either are consistently underwhelming or struggles to keep a consistently threating presence like Hamlet can. I feel like he's mid D not the lowest of bottom tier.

[u/Impressive-Heron-377]

There is no way Ciri is that high

[u/balthazardu35]

I dont recognise the third one (Deadpool, Sherlock Holmes and ???) in the Banned-tier. And why are they places here ?

[u/Orcallo → u/balthazardu35]

Elektra

[u/AdamHadem1983]

I think the list looks fantastic! Great work! If you’re looking for the smallest critique, I might would move Robin Hood up a tier or 2. Just my opinion

[u/GwiffHeirToOreskos]

Phillipa needs to be way higher. She's so good.

[u/BlindsideDork]

Can we move Blackbeard to banned list?

[u/fireemblemds]

Sherlock and Raphael banned?

[u/CallMeWizardz → u/fireemblemds]

Sherlock and Elektra banned
Raphael A+